Why do people post thread after thread blaming the American people?

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
Still smarter than the fools who learned from Laffer.....:rolleyes:

Laffer curve - RationalWiki

RationalWiki could easily be called LiberalWiki. Using a highly politically biased site in an attempt to refute an accepted economic theory is a waste of time. It is a simplistic way to find support for your side of an argument without doing your due diligence to search for the unbiased truth.
IMHO.
 

WanderngFool

Active Expediter
Compare these recoveries with the current economic fiasco being conducted by Obama and his socialist lackeys and the difference in results is stark: for he past six years the standard of living for the average American has gone down and the national debt has gone up - a lot.

You're joking, right? You left out the part the Great Recession has played. I suppose an economy left in ruins in 2008 is just a minor detail but not mentioning it throws the rest of your words in the trash bin.

The Laffer curve (originally developed by Muslims btw, you might want to alert Fox to that detail :) ), in it's simplest form, states that higher tax rates don't necessarily translate into more money for the government. There is some truth in that statement. But like nearly everything else that's come out of the misguided Reagan Revolution, it's gotten ever so slightly twisted to mean that lower taxes equals more growth which equals the government taking in at least as much and probably more money. In other words a perpetual money machine. Or to put it another way, a magic ATM machine that never runs out of money and never needs to be refilled.

Have conservatives given up on the fairy tale that is trickle down economics? I don't hear that mentioned any more. The Laffer curve isn't mentioned. I don't hear talk of the Job Creators. Either the fast food joints I frequent have switched from Fox News or Fox News has different comedy writers. It was a sick joke anyway.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I HIRE people, which is head and shoulders better than being taxed to GIVE away money to those who don't work. I hire lawn care people, I buy new windows, I bought a new boat, I buy guns, I hire people to put insulation in my attic.

The MORE you take from me, the LESS I have to hire those who WANT to work. That is a cold, hard, fact of life.

That is what is known as "trickle down", and, IF you were to ask EVERYONE that I have hired, and am STILL hiring, if they believe that my money should be taken from me so I have none to hire them with, to provide, welfare for those who don't want to work, I thing I know what they would say.

I DARE you to prove that idea wrong! I KNOW better how to use the money, WHICH I EARN, FAR better than Obama and his Marxist scumbags do.

I put people to work, Obama wants to control them.

I live by the "liberal" ideas that this country was founded on, NOT the elitist, BS that Obama and CO. spouts.
 

WanderngFool

Active Expediter
So sorry but what you described is not trickle down economics. I assume you're a 99 percenter. What you described is a 99 percenter hiring out work to other 99 percenters. That's not trickle down, that's just getting work done around the house.

The sick joke that is/was trickle down economics was really the start of class warfare in this country. The 1-percenters declared war on us 99-percenters, but as is the style in this day and age they did it with a lot of advertising agency style packaging.

We absolve them, the filthy rich, of most of their social responsibilities, including paying taxes and the benefits will trickle down to us in magical ways. There will be more and better paying jobs (Do I really need to talk about outsourcing to Asia at this point to expose that lie? I didn't think so.) .

Trickle Down economics was all the rage just a few years ago and as it became obvious that we'd been had they backtracked a bit and just started calling the filthy rich The Job Creators because they saw how slow we were to catching on to where in the world the jobs were being created.

Is it just my imagination (I honestly can't stomach more than a few minutes of Fox at a single sitting so I honestly don't know), or has Fox finally given up and that sick charade?

Oh, by the way LOS, you're in SE Michigan, right? I heard something about them privatizing fire departments in your area, getting that vital service out of the hands of the elitest gubment and back into the hands of the people, like it should be. Starting on the 4th, tomorrow, should you have a fire just go to the webpage and submit an application for credit and someone will contact you (usually within 24 hours I'm told) and discuss with you the details of your fire and how they can best serve you. Keep a credit card handy. Oh, and they'll want pictures of the fire so they can decide if it would be profitable to respond at all. You do know I'm joking, right? :)
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
So sorry but what you described is not trickle down economics. I assume you're a 99 percenter. What you described is a 99 percenter hiring out work to other 99 percenters. That's not trickle down, that's just getting work done around the house.

The sick joke that is/was trickle down economics was really the start of class warfare in this country. The 1-percenters declared war on us 99-percenters, but as is the style in this day and age they did it with a lot of advertising agency style packaging.

We absolve them, the filthy rich, of most of their social responsibilities, including paying taxes and the benefits will trickle down to us in magical ways. There will be more and better paying jobs (Do I really need to talk about outsourcing to Asia at this point to expose that lie? I didn't think so.) .

Trickle Down economics was all the rage just a few years ago and as it became obvious that we'd been had they backtracked a bit and just started calling the filthy rich The Job Creators because they saw how slow we were to catching on to where in the world the jobs were being created.

Is it just my imagination (I honestly can't stomach more than a few minutes of Fox at a single sitting so I honestly don't know), or has Fox finally given up and that sick charade?

Oh, by the way LOS, you're in SE Michigan, right? I heard something about them privatizing fire departments in your area, getting that vital service out of the hands of the elitest gubment and back into the hands of the people, like it should be. Starting on the 4th, tomorrow, should you have a fire just go to the webpage and submit an application for credit and someone will contact you (usually within 24 hours I'm told) and discuss with you the details of your fire and how they can best serve you. Keep a credit card handy. Oh, and they'll want pictures of the fire so they can decide if it would be profitable to respond at all. You do know I'm joking, right? :)

Do you really know anything about economics?
 

WanderngFool

Active Expediter
Do you really know anything about economics?

Rather than accuse me, yet again, of not knowing anything about economics, why don't you take a crack at explaining what trickle down economics is and maybe you'd even like to explain how it's benefited the American people?

I'll give you a hint: you should probably start with an explanation of the supply side approach to economics.

:)
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I have done that several times in other posts. But just for starters, you can look at the link already provided in this thread just to get you started. I am sure you skipped over it.
 

WanderngFool

Active Expediter
I have done that several times in other posts. But just for starters, you can look at the link already provided in this thread just to get you started. I am sure you skipped over it.

Yeah, I didn't think you'd be up for it. Look, I'm not trying to put you out or anything but I don't recall your ever explaining trickle down economics and I especially don't recall your ever even making an attempt at explaining how it's benefited the American people.

Like I said I'm not trying to put you out. Can you remember a keyword that I might use to do a forum search for threads where you have explained the trickle down thing? I'll do the searching.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Rather than accuse me, yet again, of not knowing anything about economics, why don't you take a crack at explaining what trickle down economics is and maybe you'd even like to explain how it's benefited the American people?

I'll give you a hint: you should probably start with an explanation of the supply side approach to economics.

:)
reagon1.jpg
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So sorry but what you described is not trickle down economics. I assume you're a 99 percenter. What you described is a 99 percenter hiring out work to other 99 percenters. That's not trickle down, that's just getting work done around the house.

The sick joke that is/was trickle down economics was really the start of class warfare in this country. The 1-percenters declared war on us 99-percenters, but as is the style in this day and age they did it with a lot of advertising agency style packaging.

We absolve them, the filthy rich, of most of their social responsibilities, including paying taxes and the benefits will trickle down to us in magical ways. There will be more and better paying jobs (Do I really need to talk about outsourcing to Asia at this point to expose that lie? I didn't think so.) .

Trickle Down economics was all the rage just a few years ago and as it became obvious that we'd been had they backtracked a bit and just started calling the filthy rich The Job Creators because they saw how slow we were to catching on to where in the world the jobs were being created.

Is it just my imagination (I honestly can't stomach more than a few minutes of Fox at a single sitting so I honestly don't know), or has Fox finally given up and that sick charade?

Oh, by the way LOS, you're in SE Michigan, right? I heard something about them privatizing fire departments in your area, getting that vital service out of the hands of the elitest gubment and back into the hands of the people, like it should be. Starting on the 4th, tomorrow, should you have a fire just go to the webpage and submit an application for credit and someone will contact you (usually within 24 hours I'm told) and discuss with you the details of your fire and how they can best serve you. Keep a credit card handy. Oh, and they'll want pictures of the fire so they can decide if it would be profitable to respond at all. You do know I'm joking, right? :)

Every penny I earn comes from the "filthy rich". It comes from "greedy corporations" to FDCC, another "greedy corporation", to my bank account. For that miracle to place I first have to WORK, then, in the fullness of time, I am paid for my labor.

I then take some of those wages and hire people to work for me. The more the government takes from me, the less I have to pass on to people who want to work. That is a fact, it cannot be disputed. The more the government takes from me the less I have to provide for my wife and mine needs. That is a fact, it cannot be disputed. The less usable income I have the less I am able to move it through the economy. That is a fact, it cannot be disputed.

As to fire departments, I live in an area that is served by a volunteer department. I prefer to live in the country, where we have FEWER government services and therefor have more control over the services that we need AND their cost. When we were younger my wife and I both served our community by volunteering with the local volunteer fire and ambulance services. When people provide for themselves, rather than depending on government, they have a much better sense of community and control over their lives. More control equals more freedom.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Yeah, I didn't think you'd be up for it. Look, I'm not trying to put you out or anything but I don't recall your ever explaining trickle down economics and I especially don't recall your ever even making an attempt at explaining how it's benefited the American people.

Like I said I'm not trying to put you out. Can you remember a keyword that I might use to do a forum search for threads where you have explained the trickle down thing? I'll do the searching.

You will find plenty of debate on it surrounding the "occupy movement". Wonder whatever happened to that? ;) Think they found out the one percent are creating jobs. With regards to "Reaganomics, it would be my assumption that since you have issues with "trickle down", you subscribe to the Keynesian theory. In other words, you want the government to control everything verses the private sector. While it has some faults, Reaganomics has proven to be successful in many regards and the Keynesian plan really hasn't. We are basically using it now and look at the mess you got. Any success it does show is an illusion. That is part of the reason you have a 17 trillion dollar debt. Of course two wars didn't help, but that is not the bulk of the debt.
 
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WanderngFool

Active Expediter
You will find plenty of debate on it surrounding the "occupy movement". Wonder whatever happened to that? ;) Think they found out the one percent are creating jobs. With regards to "Reaganomics, it would be my assumption that since you have issues with "trickle down", you subscribe to the Keynesian theory. In other words, you want the government to control everything verses the private sector. While it has some faults, Reaganomics has proven to be successful in many regards and the Keynesian plan really hasn't. We are basically using it now and look at the mess you got. Any success it does show is an illusion. That is part of the reason you have a 17 trillion dollar debt. Of course two wars didn't help, but that is not the bulk of the debt.

Well at least you mentioned the 2 wars, that's more honest than many on the right. You did leave out the financial meltdown and what that cost.

Luckily we had a mostly Keynesian response, but we could have done much better if the lunatic right wing extremists hadn't gotten involved. The Tea Party (credit rating) Downgrade was shameful, as was so much of what they did to hurt the economy and our country for the sole purpose of making a Democratic President look bad. Look at how much better we've been doing since John Boehner told the wackadoodles to behave themselves.

Jobs numbers from yesterday: 288,000 jobs added and the unemployment rate dropped to 6.1% and it's almost impossible to find anything but good news in the report. I guess teenage unemployment was up slightly YOY.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You're joking, right? You left out the part the Great Recession has played. I suppose an economy left in ruins in 2008 is just a minor detail but not mentioning it throws the rest of your words in the trash bin.
Anyone who read the article/study would have noticed it referenced the actual results of economic policies put in place after serious economic downturns. All these recoveries were substantially better than what we've experienced over the past 6 years.
special_obama_vs_reagan_recovery2_590.ashx


The Laffer curve (originally developed by Muslims btw, you might want to alert Fox to that detail :) ), in it's simplest form, states that higher tax rates don't necessarily translate into more money for the government. There is some truth in that statement. But like nearly everything else that's come out of the misguided Reagan Revolution, it's gotten ever so slightly twisted to mean that lower taxes equals more growth which equals the government taking in at least as much and probably more money. In other words a perpetual money machine. Or to put it another way, a magic ATM machine that never runs out of money and never needs to be refilled.
That's probably the most nonsensical statement ever posted, with absolutely no data to support it. Also, what's Fox News got to do with any of this?
Have conservatives given up on the fairy tale that is trickle down economics? I don't hear that mentioned any more. The Laffer curve isn't mentioned. I don't hear talk of the Job Creators. Either the fast food joints I frequent have switched from Fox News or Fox News has different comedy writers. It was a sick joke anyway.
There's trashing Fox News again - is that all you've got to offer? This whole post/response was nothing but vapid, unsubstantiated liberal talking points. One would think that anyone who is actually an independent businessman - like an expedite driver - would completely understand the concept of lower taxes coming out of your profits and less govt regulation and interference with the operation of your business. I wonder how many expedite drivers make a living hauling most of their freight for large, profitable corporations or smaller companies that do contract work for those big hitters? Some people understand economics, some don't.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
That is why you don't see the president or democrats for that matter doing a victory lap. Fox will point out everything that is wrong, and MSM will try to put a happy face on it. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Some things have improved. Auto sales/manufacturing, stock market, and more jobs created. That is all good. What is bad is stagnant and falling wages, many of the new jobs are part time, and job participation rate is pathetic. That is not to mention inflation as it is making the paychecks smaller and smaller. Just look at food, housing, taxes, and gas prices, just to name a few. I think things are improving, but don't forget, we borrowed money from future generations to arrive where we are at.
One other positive, it was a good idea for the right to block all those extended unemployment benefits. See, we didn't do it, and more people are entering the job market. At least they got that right and the "sky didn't fall".
 

WanderngFool

Active Expediter
Anyone who read the article/study would have noticed it referenced the actual results of economic policies put in place after serious economic downturns. All these recoveries were substantially better than what we've experienced over the past 6 years.
special_obama_vs_reagan_recovery2_590.ashx



That's probably the most nonsensical statement ever posted, with absolutely no data to support it. Also, what's Fox News got to do with any of this?

There's trashing Fox News again - is that all you've got to offer? This whole post/response was nothing but vapid, unsubstantiated liberal talking points. One would think that anyone who is actually an independent businessman - like an expedite driver - would completely understand the concept of lower taxes coming out of your profits and less govt regulation and interference with the operation of your business. I wonder how many expedite drivers make a living hauling most of their freight for large, profitable corporations or smaller companies that do contract work for those big hitters? Some people understand economics, some don't.

Your "facts" are coming from the heritage foundation? That's funny. :)

Without delving too deeply into this because frankly it's not worth the effort. The Reagan recession and this one are not the same. The Reagan recession had that bizarre double digit inflation problem. An extra problem that they didn't need on top of a recession. But, and this is huge, Libs and Cons still talked to one another. They compromised on issues and solved problems.

The Cons in congress today are the most obstructionist in a long, long time. They don't believe in government in the first place and it follows that they don't believe in governing. This recession started with our elected leaders telling us, and the whole world, that if we don't do the TARP program we'll have economic collapse. This recession was much worse. Btw, the only talk of economic collapse I recall from the Reagan recession was Libs warning about the effects of Reagan doubling the national debt.

Throughout most of this recession, each time we'd see some improving numbers, the Tea Party would put a gun to our collective heads over the debt ceiling or Obamacare or some other hysterical "crisis".

Btw, watch the Highway Trust Fund "crisis" that's unfolding. The Tea Party might do it again.

As for Fox. You haven't noticed how many times conservatives say the same thing using almost identical language and talking points? I find that hard to believe. You frequently accuse libs of doing that, but like the point that was made in the Tea Party? thread by I think Turtle, libs get their news from multiple outlets and Fox's number seem high but it's only because they're about the only game in town for cons. So as a liberal I can't help but notice the cause and effect. Fox gives the marching orders and you guys fall in. It's a sight to see sometimes. :)

I'm probably forgetting something here. Simply repeat the mantra that Cons know what's best for business and everyone else is stupid enough times and I'll find some way to poor fuel on the fire for you. :)
 

WanderngFool

Active Expediter
That is why you don't see the president or democrats for that matter doing a victory lap. Fox will point out everything that is wrong, and MSM will try to put a happy face on it. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Some things have improved. Auto sales/manufacturing, stock market, and more jobs created. That is all good. What is bad is stagnant and falling wages, many of the new jobs are part time, and job participation rate is pathetic. That is not to mention inflation as it is making the paychecks smaller and smaller. Just look at food, housing, taxes, and gas prices, just to name a few. I think things are improving, but don't forget, we borrowed money from future generations to arrive where we are at.
One other positive, it was a good idea for the right to block all those extended unemployment benefits. See, we didn't do it, and more people are entering the job market. At least they got that right and the "sky didn't fall".

I like the last thing you said there. I don't think it's possible to establish that reduced unemployment now is due to cutting off benefits, but I sure can't say you're wrong. The Cons contributing to the economy and their country... What's this world coming to? :)

As for the rest of what you said, especially the inflation stuff I just happened to read this yesterday and the author says it better than I could.

Austrian Economists, 9/11 Truthers and Brain Worms - Bloomberg View
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well at least you mentioned the 2 wars, that's more honest than many on the right. You did leave out the financial meltdown and what that cost.

Luckily we had a mostly Keynesian response, but we could have done much better if the lunatic right wing extremists hadn't gotten involved. The Tea Party (credit rating) Downgrade was shameful, as was so much of what they did to hurt the economy and our country for the sole purpose of making a Democratic President look bad. Look at how much better we've been doing since John Boehner told the wackadoodles to behave themselves.
Don't be so quick to forget that the financial meltdown was made possible, and prodded along, by Barney Frank and his esteemed colleagues who set the rules for Wall Street, and on Clinton when he ensured that the chicken in every pot would be on a stove within the home you own, whether you could afford it or not.

Jobs numbers from yesterday: 288,000 jobs added and the unemployment rate dropped to 6.1% and it's almost impossible to find anything but good news in the report. I guess teenage unemployment was up slightly YOY.
I must say, "impossible to find anything but good news in the report," is a very popular phrase, word for word, all over the Internet these last few days. It's pretty funny how so many different people managed to come up with the same, exact phrasing all on their own. Be that as it may... Almost impossible, perhaps, especially if you stop reading after the 4th paragraph like most people, or when the not-so-good news is presented as being pretty good, like it's once again "unchanged" or something else that's not technically OMG bad. But when you get down to the labor force participation rate (people working or actively looking for work) it's not exactly good news. It's at the lowest it's been since 1978, and has been steadily falling since Obama first got elected. And the employment-to-population ratio (ratio of civilian unemployed to the population) is at a 30 year low and has been flatline for the last 4 years. They even proclaim that average hourly wages grew 2% year over year, which was better than the 1.9% increase that had been expected, and say that's a good thing, because 2% is certainly better than 1.9%. But 2% is dismal compared to the 4.2% it averaged between 1984 and 2008, and it paltry compared to the 7.5% it averaged between 1970 and 1983.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This latest report is just fascinating and thrilling, similar to some of the John Gresham, Clive Cussler, Vince Flynn, Tom Clancy and Boyd Morrison works. Imagine, 6.1% unemployment. Fantastic! Too bad for the 10% or more other folks who aren't counted any more because they've been unemployed too long and taint the pool, or they just gave up. But hey, that's what makes great fiction so great. They don't bother including non-fiction components.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Too bad for the 10% or more other folks who aren't counted any more because they've been unemployed too long and taint the pool,
Their own fault. They are lazy.
Etc, etc, etc.

All according to some.
 
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