Who's killing the rates?

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Charles,
Why shouldn't we look at it from the contractors point of view?

I think what he means is that contractors tend to look at things in two dimensions; while companies have a complete perspective.

Perfect example was Jefferson's thread awhile back, where he was getting lambasted by contractors; but the independents understood his meaning.
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
Charles,
Why shouldn't we look at it from the contractors point of view?

We don't have control over what the carrier does nor do we have control over their competition. We need to worry about our bottom line, not the freight trends or why something is.

All of those things affect your bottom line.
 

pelgrn

Expert Expediter
So if i am the little carrier i would look at how to pry these customers away,or get access to the loads they are getting in the first place.It's tough to get a contracted customer there's day with the internet.
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Yes Piper, you may very well be able to fit that load on a Sprinter. But don't be looking for me to pay your dry run for your little experiment, should you get run off the property for not being dock high.

Of course I would not be expecting anyone to pay me if it did not pan out, in this scenario...we are talking about being an independent here not a contractor.

If I was an complete independent and I rolled the dice by showing up to do the run in a vehicle that was not exactly what was called for that's my problem...not anyone elses. If I showed up and the dims were wrong or something I might want some money but why would I get paid a dry run if I was the one who went off script and took the risk.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
All of those things affect your bottom line.

Well I understand the direct affect of my bottom line, but where is the line of things I can control and can't control?

What I mean and I know you understand this but as a 'company' contractor, where is my voice to change the obvious outside refusing loads that don't fit my business needs?

Taking it a step further, how is my business run also matters a great deal, I can't control the company things but then again the question is again raised what is cheap freight - or in other words, is my inflexibility preventing me from producing revenue during some changing times?
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I dont know who is killing the rates,,but I for one ,am more confused then a newborn in a topless establishment. :D
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Tennesseahawk said:
I think what he means is that contractors tend to look at things in two dimensions;
I agree that Contractors when considering their loads and their business tend to look at what concerns them and not what the Carriers needs are.
T-Hawk said:
while companies have a complete perspective.
Well they should have, but they do the same thing that a Contractor does, they for the most part only concern themselves with things that affect their bottom line.

T-Hawk said:
Perfect example was Jefferson's thread awhile back, where he was getting lambasted by contractors;
If you are referring to this thread, Cargo Vans Who Run For More Than One Carrier: An Editorial I don't see anywhere that Jefferson got lambasted

lambaste |lamˈbāst; -ˈbast| (also lambast |-ˈbast|)
verb [ trans. ]
criticize (someone or something) harshly : they lambasted the report as a gross distortion of the truth.
T-Hawk said:
but the independents understood his meaning.
And the unwashed masses are not smart enough? Thats kind of presumptuous don't you think?

An additional thought: Does the posting of the web page for that bid violate any confidentiality agreement with PII?
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I agree that Contractors when considering their loads and their business tend to look at what concerns them and not what the Carriers needs are.

Well they should have, but they do the same thing that a Contractor does, they for the most part only concern themselves with things that affect their bottom line.

And the unwashed masses are not smart enough? Thats kind of presumptuous don't you think?

But how often are contractors privy to all that independents/companies are involved in? I'll admit SOME contractors know more about the whole biz than others... and maybe even some independents. But overall, it's like a football star knowing the intricacies of management.

There's a reason contractors are contractors and independents are independents. For the most part, contractors don't WANT to know what the independent knows. Some independents see what they need to know/do, and go back to be contractors. I, for one, found it more profitable going back to being a contractor. And here I thrive. In time, I'll go back to independence, and thrive even more.

But unless you've walked the walk, don't believe you can think the thought. It's a whole different brain pattern.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
T-Hawk some most of what your saying is true to an extent, But to say "there's a reason contractors are contractors and independents are independents." is fallacious, there are plenty of reasons that a contractor could have for not becoming an independent. Not just a lack of knowledge, Most people who have become a Carrier lacked knowledge when they entered into the business, but if there is a desire and a good work ethic, they too can consider the path to becoming a carrier. Not that it only requires those two traits. (money and good credit come to mind) Some people have an idea what amount of work is required to become a successful carrier and choose to stay with being a Contractor. Some don't like to take risks, while others prefer to just wait on the beep.

Still don't see where he was lambasted.
 

geo

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Navy
anybody that is willing to haul cheap freight is killing the rate
as they know somebody is looking to make the truck payment and hoping next one will be that great load
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
So if i am the little carrier i would look at how to pry these customers away,or get access to the loads they are getting in the first place.It's tough to get a contracted customer there's day with the internet.

Well, I wouldn't waste my time trying to pry anyone's customer away from them. There are plenty of people who need our services these days. They don't always know who to call when they need it, or if they are comparing apples to apples, service-wise.

As far as "contracted customers", I'm trying to decide if we even have any at the moment. I guess it depends what "contracted" means. One avenue of business is that we partner with some of these larger carriers. There is a legal agreement signed by both parties, plus a rate confirmation is signed on every awarded load.

We also have our own customers who call us to serve them. No one has "exclusives" with anyone these days. Almost everything we do for either type of party is a spot quote. These quotes are based on certain expectations we as a carrier have, as well as what we know the market can bear. Basically, we try not to nickel and dime a customer, especially if they are regulars.

Generally, a customer is willing to pay about 15% of what this shipment costs in transporting it. That would include loss of production and/or labor as well. We've been called for pricing on shipments that we were told were absolutely urgent, be-there-by-the-end-of-the-day stuff. Once quoted, they realized they really only needed the original LTL type service of next week that they had originally been promised.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
It IS interesting how little contractors and customers know about this business. I have sat empty at docks after delivering, and some major company sent a wayyyy to small truck for a load that had a plane waiting on the tarmac. The shipping lady were having cats on the dock about her predickament. I told her i'd run her load for her, that i'd just unloaded here, wuz at the dock. She said, i'll have to find a truck, as she walked away. sooner she were back on the dock saying she couldn't find a truk.....anywhere close. I finally got her attention and splained the FACTS, then took care of their freight. They are learning, but, tis a slow process!!
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
. . .
Taking it a step further, how is my business run also matters a great deal, I can't control the company things but then again the question is again raised what is cheap freight - or in other words, is my inflexibility preventing me from producing revenue during some changing times?

Good Point.

We all have varying degrees of inflexibility based on our capital investments along with operating costs. As you mention, it does matter how we run our business, but in the end fixed costs can determine our level of inflexibility.

The big Carriers are not unaware of these inflexibilities and I can only imagine that when they glance outside of their window and see the impressive rolling hotels in their parking lot they may feel that some of that inflexibility is due to some frivolous spending.

That may or may not be true, but one thing is certain. Carriers are very adept at implementing certain recruitment strategies that bring owners into the fleet with lower costs and expectations that will make the moving of "cheaper" freight easier.

Here are a few of the strategies that my Carrier uses to bring certain trucks and drivers on board that will be willing to run freight at rates that other less flexible contractors would have to refuse:

* Lowering the standards and requirements of both new trucks and drivers. Substandard equipment can be run at substandard rates. Example: I recently met a new owner with my Carrier that bragged that he only paid $5,000.00 for his truck and it looked like it. He had obviously passed the Carrier inspection because he was getting his decals put on. This rolling dumpster will do nothing to enhance the image of my Carrier but, he will be able and willing to run for peanuts until it falls apart.

* Recruiting inexperienced business people. Look at any good Franchise prospectus and you will see investor requirements such as “liquid capital requirement” or “initial investment requirements”. These requirements help to weed out those people who are undercapitalized and unprepared and they contribute directly to the higher success rates that Franchisees have over other independent business owners. These type of requirements are conspicuously absent from the recruiting efforts of the Expedited Freight carriers.
Recruiting less experienced and ill prepared truck owners who will unknowingly accept rates below their operating costs is productive in moving “cheap freight”. They will eventually lose their business but there will be another owner in class that day to replace them.

* Recruiting Husband and Wife teams. There are many advantages to recruiting H/W teams and one of them is the ability to move freight at a cheaper rate than a two household team may be willing to run it for. Carriers realize that married couples are often willing to sacrifice some revenue because they only need to support one household.

* Recruiting retirees. This may be the gold standard of recruitment. They often have other income and do Expediting in order to put away some “extra” cash. Since they do not need the money for living expenses, they can easily run freight at a lower cost than someone who needs to cover all of their living expenses.

* Recruiting recent foreign immigrants. The learning curve for new immigrants adapting to American business is difficult. The Carriers believe that many of these hardworking immigrants are able and willing to work for less money. They can also be more willing to accept without question what the Carrier offers.

So, if the question is: Who’s killing the rates?

I would say that the Carriers not only set the rates but also find ways to get the lower rates covered. There are many other players in this game so this is just one aspect of how low rates are promoted.



Disclaimer: The preceding statements are based on actual observations and conversations with Carrier decision makers and are not the opinion of the author.
 

bubblehead

Veteran Expediter
Good Point.

The big Carriers are not unaware of these inflexibilities and I can only imagine that when they glance outside of their window and see the impressive rolling hotels in their parking lot they may feel that some of that inflexibility is due to some frivolous spending.


Disclaimer: The preceding statements are based on actual observations and conversations with Carrier decision makers and are not the opinion of the author.

Also when these "hotels" arrive at the customer. I was present when one customer looking up at the arriving "hotel" said, "Holy **** how much am I paying for that!" It does present the "Look how much I am making off of you" image and has certainly hurt this business.

Also your post in its entirety is absoulutely fantastic.
 
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