Who Determines The Payable Miles?

[TeamPaul]

Assuming a straight truck is the mode of transportation (although I'm sure it does not matter) Who determines the payable miles? If you are driving a load, and it takes you 3,000 miles to get there from here, what or who determines the payable miles? Is it determined by the miles driven, or the shortest miles calculated by dispatcher?

I know that when I ran line haul with an LTL company, we had a set amount of miles we got paid for, no matter if we took a (legal) short or long route.

 

[xiggi]

It's set by customer or dispatch. Normally using pc miler or some other program. Sometimes zip to zip sometimes door to door.

 

[Murraycroexp]

Most dispatch software uses either PC Miler or Google Maps to calculate miles. If PCM, the option or "shortest" or "practical" is usually there.

 

[Moot]

Different carriers, customers and contracts call for different methods of calculating mileage. Some use House Hold Goods Mileage, Rand McNally, PCMiler or other methods as to how to charge the customer.

 

[tknight]

Auto routes and truck routes are different
if not all times and miles vary like yesterday it was 35 miles farther using zip to zip which resulted in another argument with my pimp! Nothing changes!

 

[TeamPaul]

Thank you for the replies. Miles drive, and fuel economy, and pay in and pay out has got me looking at all kinds of numbers these days.

 

[ATeam]

When looking at the miles number, Diane and I always regarded the "pay-per-mile, all miles" number as the most important. It did not matter how much the load paid per mile. It did not matter what the route was. It did not matter how far we would have to drive empty to the pick up. The only number that really mattered was "all miles."

All miles is calculated by adding up all miles you will drive for a load, from where you are when the load is accepted, to the pickup, to the delivery by whatever route you will actually take. Then divide the total pay for the load by the total miles driven to get your pay-per-mile, all-miles number.

Note that no single number you may consider tells the whole story. For example, one carrier may tell you they pay $X per loaded mile. Another carrier may say $Y per loaded mile but they also pay tolls. Yet another carrier may say they pay a slightly lower rate per loaded mile than the other two but the hiring bonus may make a difference. Yet another carrier may say they pay tolls but when you get in you learn that only some tolls are paid some of the time. It will make you crazy if you try to make a decision on the numbers alone.

 

[TeamPaul]

Thank you ATeam, this really helps a lot. My wife and I are were working through some scenarios, when this question arose. By scenarios, we are trying to calculate expenses on made up job offers, long or short. Kind of a what if game, which would include low or high mileage dead head etc. So with that I have one more question; to figure mileage and pay down to a more reliable figure, what could a fresh team (read "green stick" team) expect to make in a lease truck for their first year? By that I mean, what could my wife and I expect mileage pay to be?

edit: we are talking straight truck, driving for an owner.

 

[TeamCaffee]

Dragon64 hard number for anyone to give you... Will you be in a reefer? What company will you choose? The best way to get an average number is from the company not from other drivers.

A lot of the income in the first year depends on you, how well will you adjust to driving as a team, how much down down time will you need to catch up on sleep, and will you be willing to go anywhere? How quick will you learn where the potential for loads will be with the type of truck you will be driving? How proactive will your owner be?

 

[TeamPaul]

I just wanted a range, say $1.34 to $1.50 But I was also hoping to be more realistic about the numbers, instead of pulling them out of the air. For us, we are looking at driving for an owner and for Panther. We would like to have ouur DOD clearance, HAZMAT, Passports etc.

We have not narrowed everything down, as we are going off conversations we had with Panther and Expedited Services at the Expo last month. We also talked a little with Fed Ex, who seemed a little more receptive than Landstar, and both were par more receptive than PTL or XPO. I'm going off of memory here, but we talked with nearly everyone at the Expo. Maybe talking with you we could get more insight into Landstar, as we read the article in the Landstar rag about Women in Trucking, and you, Mrs Caffee, were featured in the article... Very nice article, my wife surely enjoyed it.

 

[ATeam]

If you are looking to drive for a fleet owner, you may already have access to the information you seek. If the fleet owner has been in the business for a while and is running a number of trucks, and he/she is reasonably competent and honest, he/she should be able to tell you exactly what the pay range is, both for the top and bottom drivers in the fleet.

When we were new to the industry, Diane and I interviewed by telephone over 20 fleet owners. A question they loved to answer was how much did their top drivers earn, and why did they earn it? Why is it, we asked, that some drivers did better than others? What were the behavior differences that made the difference? Then we listened. By listening, we learned much about what fleet owners were looking for in drivers. By listening to a lot of them, it happened that about half way through the 20, some of the fleet owners were asking us what we had learned.

Fleet owners LOVE it when they have good (reliable, caring, communicating, productive) drivers in their trucks. Some fleet owners will lie through their teeth to get such drivers and cheat them later. Others are worthy of the good a good team brings.

If I was in your shoes, and I once was, I'd get the names of several "good" fleet owners by asking the recruiters at two or three carriers for that. I'd then contact each one and ask for a telephone appointment (a very polite and professional thing to do that sets you apart from many other prospective drivers). Then ask your "what can we expect" questions of each one and LISTEN to the answers.

Some of the most powerful words you can use when an answer is given is "tell me more" or "how do you mean?" Dig as deep as the fleet owner is willing to go. Get the fleet owner talking and keep him/her talking. Words like "How did you get into the business?" and "Tell me about the best team you ever had" are good for that. After you have listened to a handful of fleet owners, you will have insights into their world and the business that you otherwise would have missed.

I hear you saying Panther and that's fine. But talking to other fleet owners from other carriers will be instructive and it will help you make your motor carrier choice without the need to second-guess yourself after the choice is made.

One advantage of interviewing fleet owners this way is they are talking about actual trucks and actual teams on the road. Questions like "what kind of truck will you drive and how is it equipped?" are already answered because you are talking about actual trucks.

Home time is the enemy of productivity in expediting. The more you commit to staying out, the better you will do, and the more attractive you will be to fleet owners. When you hit the road for the first time, don't think about how you will get home and how often, think about how you will learn the business and lay your foundation for long-term success.

 

[TeamPaul]

ATeam, I am printing this reply, as it is one of best I have ever received...Ever! Thank you so much. As my wife and I are still just shy of a year from entering Expediting, we will have a little time to get our homework done. I hope to use your reply as an outline for what we really need to focus on.

We have been in a conversation with one owner, and it has been very educational, as my wife and I are learning a lot. I will seek out others, and hope they are as understanding that we will not be ready until just before or right at the time of the next Expo. Thank you again!

 

[NorthernBill]

ATeam, I am printing this reply, as it is one of best I have ever received...Ever! Thank you so much. As my wife and I are still just shy of a year from entering Expediting, we will have a little time to get our homework done. I hope to use your reply as an outline for what we really need to focus on.

We have been in a conversation with one owner, and it has been very educational, as my wife and I are learning a lot. I will seek out others, and hope they are as understanding that we will not be ready until just before or right at the time of the next Expo. Thank you again!

A Team, Blogged a master piece when they were running. Well worth searching for, very informative and a good read.

 

[ATeam]

I should add that when Diane and I researched fleet owners in 2003, few if any large ones (10 trucks or more) existed. Back then, FedEx Custom Critical had a rule that no fleet owner could have more than five trucks on with that carrier. I believe it was a rule designed to protect all drivers from the undue influence a larger fleet owner might have. It was a rule intended to help protect the integrity of what was then a fair dispatch system.

In the 10 years Diane and I worked the trade, the rule went away and large fleet owners began to appear. Interviewing them would be a good idea, just as you would interview any others. Just understand that the fleet owner community that existed in 2003 was different than the fleet owner community that exists today. When it was more lucrative to haul freight, a less sophisticated fleet owner could make it with a small number of trucks. Margins are tighter now and the fleet owner game has shifted in response.

 

[geo]

most important is to have everything put in the contract , have someone go over it with you
also other things that play in game is, when does d time start, going upstairs, inside delivery, take trash away,
going on military bases, always take's from real quick to for ever to get on base or going into port's, going in to airport to do a pick up, sometime they come in on time other times you have to wait for ever
if you have a hazmat load and have to go out of route for tunnel's, or go on truck route only.
going to mall, and finding where the store is that takes time
if deliver to a mall have to find out what are time's you may make delivery , these extra charges add up

 

[TeamPaul]

most important is to have everything put in the contract , have someone go over it with you
also other things that play in game is, when does d time start, going upstairs, inside delivery, take trash away,
going on military bases, always take's from real quick to for ever to get on base or going into port's, going in to airport to do a pick up, sometime they come in on time other times you have to wait for ever
if you have a hazmat load and have to go out of route for tunnel's, or go on truck route only.
going to mall, and finding where the store is that takes time
if deliver to a mall have to find out what are time's you may make delivery , these extra charges add up

I remember while running a dedicated LTL route, many companies railed me due to being late on deliveries or pickups because of tardiness. Even when you point out the tardiness issues such as 'their address is not posted' or this is not the correct dock, the dock is three blocks over at another facility etc etc. My all-time favorite was delivering a pallet full of typing paper off the back of a truck in the middle of downtown (Decatur, AL) to the fourth floor of an office building, 4-boxes at a time. I suppose that if time were actual money, I would have starved to death in the LTL business.

But yes, I can see special circumstances warranting negotiation of mileage rates due to them being beyond the norm of dock-to-dock routing. As stated, we will hope to have all the licenses needed to pick up and deliver at air ports, arsenals or other military installations, ports and even Canada... We will also plan to have our HAZMAT endorsements prior to seeking out an empty seat to drive from. My wife and I would really like to run tractor trailer, but her lack of driving experience in such a vehicle needs to be built upon before we can ever take that into consideration. With that said, a straight truck will be our home away from when we start out.

 

[TeamCaffee]

I just wanted a range, say $1.34 to $1.50 But I was also hoping to be more realistic about the numbers, instead of pulling them out of the air. For us, we are looking at driving for an owner and for Panther. We would like to have ouur DOD clearance, HAZMAT, Passports etc.

We have not narrowed everything down, as we are going off conversations we had with Panther and Expedited Services at the Expo last month. We also talked a little with Fed Ex, who seemed a little more receptive than Landstar, and both were par more receptive than PTL or XPO. I'm going off of memory here, but we talked with nearly everyone at the Expo. Maybe talking with you we could get more insight into Landstar, as we read the article in the Landstar rag about Women in Trucking, and you, Mrs Caffee, were featured in the article... Very nice article, my wife surely enjoyed it.

The problem with answering this is the range... Our experience has always been percentage of what the load pays and we have seen loads as low as .82 and over $10.00 a mile. Often the low pay is due to the dead head to pickup the load and the high amount is due to the shortness of the load and that is usually under ten miles. Some of the companies are flat rate and with flat rate you can plan much easier of what income to expect when you ask about typical miles for the year for the type of truck you will be driving.

That is much harder to do with Landstar as they only give you loaded miles pay and it is up to us to figure all miles. The reason I say harder is that offers not with Landstar are typically done on the Omni Tracs and the screen will tell you how far away you are to the pickup and give you the total miles including dh and the total pay so a quick calculation tells you all miles. With Landstar we see where the load picks up and where it delivers and we have to figure out how far we are from pickup. This often has to be done in our heads as we are driving and our partner is sleeping.

Learning Expediting is the key as sometimes the $10 a mile load will ruin a good day because it pickup in the afternoon and puts you out of contention for a long load that in the long run will pay a lot more. If that $10 a mile load can be done first thing in the morning leaving you free in the afternoon it is a good load and great money.

In Expediting we are constantly learning of where great freight it, where the best places are to wait, and places where we want to deliver and move on. When is the best time to take a short load, week end loads, and my favorite when is it pretty safe to get the laundry done and not have to grab the clothes out of the washer and make a dash for it with a great paying load!

You also bring up another good point of having everything you can in your favor. Get all of your clearances and be able to haul as many loads and load types as possible.

 

[TeamPaul]

The problem with answering this is the range... Our experience has always been percentage of what the load pays and we have seen loads as low as .82 and over $10.00 a mile. Often the low pay is due to the dead head to pickup the load and the high amount is due to the shortness of the load and that is usually under ten miles. Some of the companies are flat rate and with flat rate you can plan much easier of what income to expect when you ask about typical miles for the year for the type of truck you will be driving.

That is much harder to do with Landstar as they only give you loaded miles pay and it is up to us to figure all miles. The reason I say harder is that offers not with Landstar are typically done on the Omni Tracs and the screen will tell you how far away you are to the pickup and give you the total miles including dh and the total pay so a quick calculation tells you all miles. With Landstar we see where the load picks up and where it delivers and we have to figure out how far we are from pickup. This often has to be done in our heads as we are driving and our partner is sleeping.

Learning Expediting is the key as sometimes the $10 a mile load will ruin a good day because it pickup in the afternoon and puts you out of contention for a long load that in the long run will pay a lot more. If that $10 a mile load can be done first thing in the morning leaving you free in the afternoon it is a good load and great money.

In Expediting we are constantly learning of where great freight it, where the best places are to wait, and places where we want to deliver and move on. When is the best time to take a short load, week end loads, and my favorite when is it pretty safe to get the laundry done and not have to grab the clothes out of the washer and make a dash for it with a great paying load!

You also bring up another good point of having everything you can in your favor. Get all of your clearances and be able to haul as many loads and load types as possible.

Thank you for this information on possible payable loads. This will help my wife and I as we play the scenario game. We take the Rand McNally map, select a to & from, then build a supposed Expedite scenario based on what we are learning from here. This is only to try and teach ourselves the math, so fuel tank capacities are taken into to account as we try to base some of the numbers game on fuel economy (to calculate surcharges and IFTA) etc. My wife, who has the accounting degree, is really loving the numbers game at this point. Basically knowing some of the inputs is helping us to put things into perspective. Luckily I already have a clearance, but it is a moot point, as it is useless with my wife not having one (yet).

 

[Moot]

My wife, who has the accounting degree, is really loving the numbers game at this point.

Leo posted this several years ago. Some of the info may be out of date but the basics should keep your wife entertained for hours.

http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...4465-diesel-price-versus-cost-whose-20-a.html

 

[ATeam]

On one hand, it is wise to master the numbers and the deeper you look into them, the better off you will be. On the other hand, practical considerations apply. As you gain experience on the road, you will come to understand that always/never rules may not always be best to follow.

For example, after you study Leo's excellent post on fuel taxes, you may decide to never buy fuel in a particular state, even if it is seemingly priced lower on the truck stop signs. But on a particular run, it may happen that the smart move is to buy fuel in that state because you need to top off after a delivery and get quickly to sleep so you can be ready to roll if your next load offer comes quickly in. Or it would be unwise to detour to another state if relocating closer to a busy freight center in unfavorable tax state is the wise choice at the time.

In expediting, you are continually weighing several trade-offs at a time. In that ongoing process, the more you know the numbers, the more often optimal decisions will be made.

When you are a prospective expediter, looking into the business from the outside, the biggest challenge is gaining a sense of perspective. It is easy to run hypothetical scenarios but until you actually get in a truck and experience the day-to-day flow of events, it is difficult to weigh one factor against another because until you get into the truck, you won't truly know how much weight you personally assign to a given thing.

For example, above I talked about fuel purchase in a certain state and preparing for the next load offer. Not mentioned in that scenario are the number of days you have gone without a shower, how close to home you may be, whether a close expediter friend is at that truck stop, what day of the week it may be, how soon your next oil change is due, and many other such items.

Absolutely, get to know the numbers as best as you can. Doing so will give you a decisive edge. Just know that the numbers are only part of the bigger picture of expediting success.