What gives?

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I can understand a policy where emergency medical treatment wouldn't be provided at a facility where there are no medically trained staff to handle medical emergencies, but it doesn't take a lot of medical training to learn CPR. Even Boy Scouts know CPR.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I can understand a policy where emergency medical treatment wouldn't be provided at a facility where there are no medically trained staff to handle medical emergencies, but it doesn't take a lot of medical training to learn CPR. Even Boy Scouts know CPR.

"A 911 dispatcher pleaded with a nurse at a Bakersfield, Calif., senior living facility to save the life of an elderly woman by giving her CPR, but the nurse said policy did not allow her to, according to a newly released audiotape of the call."

She knew CPR. Just didn't give a damm enough to do it.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"A 911 dispatcher pleaded with a nurse at a Bakersfield, Calif., senior living facility to save the life of an elderly woman by giving her CPR, but the nurse said policy did not allow her to, according to a newly released audiotape of the call."

She knew CPR. Just didn't give a damm enough to do it.

As I said, there are policies and their are people of morals. It is obvious where this "nurse" stands.
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
So my next question would be to Humble2drive .......

Obviously we do not know all the facts, but would this lady be in an ILC if she was that ill?

That is an excellent question because it brings up another angle in an already confusing story. Yes. In "many" facilities they offer Hospice Care services for those residents who are at or near terminal. BUT, it is usually contracted out to a company that specializes in Hospice visits and not administered by the facility staff.
Families choose this type option so that the patient can remain in a familiar setting.
That could throw another wrench into this story.

BTW- I am not trying to conclude what happen. I merely pointed out a different possibility instead of coming out with a smart azz statement like " Obamacare" which adds no value to the discussion. I would put my money on something having to do with liability and a nurse having to decide between "moral responsibility" and legal responsibility. That's my two cents. ;)
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
If you don't know what a moral responsibility is I can't teach you. That is taught to the young, to prepare them for adult life.

You jumped to the wrong conclusion again. I was interested in your definition of what the nurses moral responsibility was as opposed to moral imperative. Never mind. I know what you meant.

There is NO cost to a DNR order or living wills. The patient's doctor is not there to "shift" the care, only to insure that the patients personal wishes are adhered too. NO doctor, home or government has the right or authority to decide life and death issues.

Tell that to my Attorney. :) we also paid him to draw up the lease for our truck.
Sure, you can get these things at no cost but do so at your own risk because the devil is in the details and our contracts are very specific on the details.
The simple point was, many people end up without them or a will for a variety of reasons.

I listened to the 911 call, the nurse's tone of voice in itself was disturbing. Even the 911 op was bothered by it. It did seem, and I understand it was only one phone conversation, that she did not care about this woman in any way, shape or form.

Now, that is disturbing. I am trying to refrain from passing judgement until the facts are in; however, I do understand your impatience. ;)
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
I don't know if it is Obamacare, but certainly the fear of being sued plays in to it.

Bingo. CNN just reported that the facility management does not want to accept liability for any of their workers getting injured helping the patients. That is the only excuse they have offered so far.
They claim that everything went as planned and they support the nurse.
They are being investigated for criminal wrong doing.
I hope family members are able to get their loved ones outta there quick. Also, gotta wonder how many other facilities have the same rules.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Bingo. CNN just reported that the facility management does not want to accept liability for any of their workers getting injured helping the patients. That is the only excuse they have offered so far.
They claim that everything went as planned and they support the nurse.
They are being investigated for criminal wrong doing.
I hope family members are able to get their loved ones outta there quick. Also, gotta wonder how many other facilities have the same rules.

For CPR??? What's going to happen ... break a finger nail ? :mad:
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
For CPR??? What's going to happen ... break a finger nail ? :mad:

Umm... their employees can get injured lifting people out of wheel chairs. There's always a chance for injury on the job. That is a lame excuse they gave... and one that won't hold up in court when they get sued out of a job.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Umm... their employees can get injured lifting people out of wheel chairs. There's always a chance for injury on the job. That is a lame excuse they gave... and one that won't hold up in court when they get sued out of a job.

I did mention CPR, as that is the essence of this report :)
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
For CPR??? What's going to happen ... break a finger nail ? :mad:

I couldn't have made up a worse reason. :mad:

That is what they said in the report I heard but sometimes the stories get modified in follow up reports.

Like the time I heard about a kid going into his mother's class room with an assault rifle. Later reports said that it wasn't his mother's class room and he didn't have an assault rifle. Go figure.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I did mention CPR, as that is the essence of this report :)




Giving CPR requires the victim be on a hard surface, so a person may well need to be moved from a chair or bed [if too soft, as most are] to the floor.
The facility seems to be more concerned with the potential exposure to worker's comp claims than the responsibility to the clients' survival.
In my opinion, it's not a common situation, but as noted, it'd be good to know for sure, because it's not an acceptable practice in the view of most clients and families.

 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
On top of the moral issue, if they are not licensed to provide medical services, why hire a nurse? :confused:

If you didn't read the article, why ask questions? The second sentence says the staffer was not a nurse, but a 'resident services director', and nowhere does it say they even have any nurses on site. It's an 'assisted living facility', where the assistance may be with meals, housekeeping, transportation, etc, but not medical.
Still, performing CPR when someone stops breathing can hardly be considered giving medical treatment as the term is generally understood, and the failure to do so is indefensible, IMO.

That "nurse" is one disgusting witch. :mad:
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
If one is in this type of home, that would be a question. If they portray they are nurses, are they providing that care? If not, then it would beg the question as to why some bill for nurses that can't do anything. Could be a racket in the home/health industry?
Think I would be checking if you have a loved one in one of these facilities.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
On top of the moral issue, if they are not licensed to provide medical services, why hire a nurse? :confused:

If you didn't read the article, why ask questions? The second sentence says the staffer was not a nurse, but a 'resident services director', and nowhere does it say they even have any nurses on site. It's an 'assisted living facility', where the assistance may be with meals, housekeeping, transportation, etc, but not medical.
Still, performing CPR when someone stops breathing can hardly be considered giving medical treatment as the term is generally understood, and the failure to do so is indefensible, IMO.

That "nurse" is one disgusting witch. :mad:

I DID read the article AND listened to the 911 call, many times. The woman said clearly that she was a nurse.


"According to a 911 tape released by the Bakersfield Fire Department, the woman told Halvorson that she was a nurse at Glenwood Gardens, a senior living facility in Bakersfield. But the nurse refused to give the woman CPR as directed by the dispatcher, saying it was against the facility's policy for staff to do so, according to the tape."


"On the tape, a different Glenwood Gardens employee said that an elderly woman had passed out in the facility's dining room while eating. She was barely breathing and, according to KGET-TV, did not have a do-not-resuscitate order.
For the next several minutes, Halvorson begged the nurse to begin CPR, saying something had to be done before an ambulance arrived.
After the nurse repeatedly refused, Halvorson asked her to find a passerby or anyone who would be willing to help. Halvorson said she would talk someone through performing CPR.
"I understand if your facility is not willing to do that," Halvorson told the nurse. "Give the phone to that passerby, that stranger … this woman's not breathing enough.... She's going to die if we don't get this started.... I don't understand why you're not willing to help this patient."
The nurse could be heard talking to someone else at the facility.
"She's yelling at me," she said of Halvorson, "and saying we have to have one of our residents perform CPR. I'm feeling stressed, and I'm not going to do that, make that call." "


The woman fainted Feb. 26 in the dining room of Glenwood Gardens in Bakersfield, prompting an unidentified woman to dial 911 and ask for paramedics. (Listen to the call.)

 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
A clarification: the woman who identified herself as a nurse [to the 911 dispatcher] lied - she was the resident services director.
The facility provides no medical care, and the family was aware of that - but you have to wonder, are all families aware? And is this common in California, or everywhere?
Like DaveKC said, it's something to think about if you ever need such a facility.
Lord knows, they're not cheap!!!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Again, as I said before, IF the was a "DNR" order on record, NO PROBLEM. If not, charges should be filed.
 
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