Wasn't going to work?

[OntarioVanMan]

Have you given much thought that your stand alone system was destined to fail from the beginning?....I mean WHEN did it ever work? The forefathers wrote a great piece...everything was designed around not British, but is it workable? It appears not...
Ever thought why we elect a leader....to follow maybe? Now think about follow....like sheep, lemmings? If one was so independant why have a leader....just giving into having a leader is resigning your independance by having a figurehead lead you....yes...no? I don't think all socialist countries have to end up like the old Russia....but people like to lead to have a leader per say....

The people spoke this time albeit something like 52% to 48% not a landslide but never the less they spoke...the voters, The citizens of this country...like it or not they are moving to the liberal side like most of the world....

Turtle said

Another factor that comes into play, though, is the fact that whites in America are a dwindling breed. Recently whites made up 85% of the voters, now it's 74%. They say that in 30 years whites will actually be a minority. The face of America is changing, and many of us white old farts are gonna have a real problem with that. Forget that fact that old farts don't like change in the first place, 'cause we're set in our ways and we like it that way, we see our power slipping away and there's nothing we can do about it.

Thats part of my point...

 

[blondechick]

Yes, there are socialist contries that are doing "well". Sweden would be an example of this. I have not done the reasearch, but I am curious now, as to the numbers of people receiving government aide in Sweden. They have a population of highly educated and hard working people. Don't quote me yet, but I believe they do not have nearly the number of uneducated, illegals, and "oppressed" minorities that the USA has. Let me see what I can find on Google.

 

[blondechick]

Statistiska centralbyrån - Statistics Sweden is a central government authority for official statistics and other government statistics.

Because 2008 is still in progress, many annual reports have not been posted yet. There are statics available on population break down by region, age, marital status, and gender (not by race). There is a seperate section on Migration population, and use of Social services/insurance. From the statics that were available they do appear to have a low "migration" population. The statics on social services is not yet available. I will keep looking, because I am very curious now.

My main point being (and I believe this data will eventually confirm) a productive country with low use of its social services can do "well". American has a huge population that will be using social services and will be a huge drain on tax payers.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

When is the last time you've bought something affordable from Sweden? Not to mention the Swedish income tax is around 52%, last I heard.

Why is it so difficult to understand we are NOT the rest of the world; and that the policies that made this country great (ie the Constitution) put us AHEAD of the world in innovation, and the like? When you're the best at what you do, why do you want to be like everyone else? That sounds like a genius who would want to be dumber so he'll have more normal friends; when in fact, the normal folk are just jealous of what makes him different.

The answer is not to be afraid of minorities; but to make them equal intellectually. School vouchers would be a great start, as parents who care about their kids could actually send them to a school that would prepare them for life, rather than babysit them. But the Democrats, allied with the teachers union, won't allow for it.

 

[Turtle]

I don't know if I would classify Sweden as a socialist country, per se, what with them routinely being listed at or near the top of the list of "best" democracies (Economy Intelligence Unit). The most recent report (The Economy Intelligence Unit's Index of Democracy 2008) has Sweden at #1, with Canada listed at 11 and the US at 18. It's a dry, but informative read, and will give the reader a different perspective on their home (Earth). Sweden falls somewhere in between pure Capitalism and pure Socialism.

Sweden does pound the equal rights and equal treatment as well as anyone, and they manage to do that within a democracy, which makes them a shining example, for sure. They do have a rather large budget for such a small country for Social Services, however.

Did you know that if you make $35,000 a year in Sweden you face a peak income tax of 78%? It actually works out to an average of each worked getting to keep about 40% of his income, with the other 60% going to the State. "The high rates on comparatively modest salaries have made the game of avoiding taxes a national pastime, swelled the underground economy, worsened inflation and squelched incentives to work harder for additional income." Coincidentally, I came across this article the other day, from the New York Times about Sweden and some of its "Swedish Model" welfare state problems.

80% of the workforce is through trade unions. Sweden also has the highest number of annual sick days per worker of 24 days per year of work lost due to illness. State and municipal employees are one-third of the workforce, which is several times that of other industrialized nations, with only Denmark having more. Unemployment is right around 7%, and is relatively stagnant. Then again, there have been no new net jobs created Sweden since 1950. Not one of the Top 50 companies on the Stockholm Exchange was started after 1970.

So while the Swedish Model is something to admire, it's not without its problems. And the government is currently looking at tax reform and trying to spur new growth in the private sector.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Besides our federal tax system, you have to understand different states tax you differently. If you want no income tax, bet on a high sales tax. Vice versa if you want no sales tax. Some states have no sales tax on food, others on clothing, some different levels for different things. The main idea is that the states have their own rights, and can tax as they please. In a sense, it presents a competitive environment for companies and citizens to choose from.

Personally, I like the idea of no income taxes with a higher sales tax, like TN has. On top of that, you also have a low cost of living in most areas. Even the Nashville area is adequately priced, as compared to other metropolitan areas. A perfect place to buy land and set up shop on a truck driver's income.

OTOH, you have Michigan. High income tax, along with moderate sales tax, cause ppl to leave. VERY high business tax over the last 6 yrs has caused businesses to leave in a hurry, with very few setting up shop. Not only has Michigan been a one state recession lately, but we've lost House seats because we're losing population.

As far as toll roads go, I wouldn't say 50% is very accurate, unless you're talking about the northeast and Chicago. That's hardly the majority of the US road system.

 

[Jack_Berry]

blondechick.....here is your swedish information, unless this is where you got it.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sw.html

here is another place that is near my heart.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/da.html

gotta love the cia.

 

[Turtle]

Yeah, but they make it all back when you buy blank, recordable media.

 

[blondechick]

Thanks for the sites Jack_Berry, much more info than the Swedish site. Unemployment was higher than I expected 6.1%, literacy was 99%, migration was very low.

Tennesee Hawk, I think you misunderstand, I am against socialism. Van Man made the point that not all socialist countries end up like Russia, I was agreeing, but stating successful socialist countries have a higher quality of life to start with. America could possibly crumble under the strain of socialism. Sweden is a great county with wonderful minds, quality products, and brilliant scientist, image what they could accomplish if they had a less taxes and less government.

Minorities and the impoverished are a problem because the government has made them a problem. The government has coddled them, made them dependent, and imposed a "nanny state", this has taken away their ability to earn and care for themselves. I don't mind helping a person when their down, but as Dave Ramsey says "we need to redefine help", throwing money at the problem doesn't solve anything. Give them a fish and feed them for a day, teach them to fish and they'll never go hungry again.

 

[Sparticus]

as Dave Ramsey says "we need to redefine help", throwing money at the problem doesn't solve anything. Give them a fish and feed them for a day, teach them to fish and they'll never go hungry again.

Just out of curiosity blondechick, what baby step are you on?

I am actually working on 2 - Nearly debt free 18,000 on truck and then just the house. I am also contributing to 3,4,and 5 while still on 2. It's not quite the program, but it is working.
If you are the journey of FREEDOM, Best of luck to you and remember

We are all better than we deserve.

 

[blondechick]

Sparticus - I've sent you a PM. I don't want to hijack the post.