VERY interesting problem

[layoutshooter]

I got a call today from my former owner. One of his drivers was running in heavy rain yesterday. Without warning his truck started not shifting correctly. The speedometer went wild and his was BARELY able to limp the truck into a shop.

The problem was caused by the QUALCOMM. The ELECTRIC BRICK. The ELECTRIC NANNY.
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It seems that IF and WHEN the system messes up, like if water messes with it or something, it can shut down the truck. This is because this great new toy is tied into the ECM.

The owner of the truck called Tom at FedEX and he was NOT surprised that it happened. Maybe they have seen this before? IF it is a system problem, a system that for now our carrier requires and soon the government will, are WE required to pay for tows or repairs to a damaged ECM?

This could be a real serious problem if it starts to become the norm.



This could be a real problem in the future.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

If it can be proved...the carrier should be liable for expense incurred by the QC....
I would even take them to small claims court if necessary because this may happen again....it would also be sending a message to such carrier that you and others will not accept any less....

If one is that scared to proceed...I would have to ask....Is it worth compromising what is right for something obviously so wrong....

 

[layoutshooter]

If it can be proved...the carrier should be liable for expense incurred by the QC....
I would even take them to small claims court if necessary because this may happen again....it would also be sending a message to such carrier that you and others will not accept any less....

If one is that scared to proceed...I would have to ask....Is it worth compromising what is right for something obviously so wrong....

I don't what has happened with this as yet. The problem I learned about happened last night. It is a work in progress.

Has anyone in here had a similar problem? Any carriers reading this have any thoughts?

It just seems to me that IF we are going to be FORCED to use this equipment or not be allowed to run then the carriers/qualcomm or the installers SHOULD be libel for the damage that the REQUIRED equipment could do to any ECM/truck. A problem like this could get expensive.

 

[greg334]

Layout, hate to point this out but if the qualcomm fried the ECM (which takes a lot), then the problem is with the install of the qualcomm and the inability of the installer to properly ensure that the unit is installed to their specs. The installer should foot the repair bill.

 

[layoutshooter]

Layout, hate to point this out but if the qualcomm fried the ECM (which takes a lot), then the problem is with the install of the qualcomm and the inability of the installer to properly ensure that the unit is installed to their specs. The installer should foot the repair bill.

That what I was asking. Who should foot that bill? It is not known yet if this guys ECM is fried but it did go WACKO and it seems that this is NOT the first one to do it.

Are these units "buffered" enough, you know "surge protected" to handle a close, not direct, lighting strike?

It will be interesting to find out just what this problem is and who ends up paying for it.

 

[layoutshooter]

Layout, hate to point this out but if the qualcomm fried the ECM (which takes a lot), then the problem is with the install of the qualcomm and the inability of the installer to properly ensure that the unit is installed to their specs. The installer should foot the repair bill.

That what I was asking. Who should foot that bill? It is not known yet if this guys ECM is fried but it did go WACKO and it seems that this is NOT the first one to do it.

Are these units "buffered" enough, you know "surge protected" to handle a close, not direct, lighting strike?

It will be interesting to find out just what this problem is and who ends up paying for it.

 

[greg334]

Well it isn't what you may think of. The interface is part of the trucks communications system and the qualcomm is just one of many devices that is on the same lines. It runs on 12 volts and there is a 'buffer' type protection for the ECM and other devices on the buss.

The problem sounds like it may have shorted out the buss but who knows. However I fixed a FedEx qaulcomm mess where the installer cut the wiring and spliced the qualcomm into the wiring. The EOBR is supposed to be plugged into the J1939 port under the dash and no where else. If it is spliced in, then there is a possibilities of serious damage to the entire truck's electrical.

 

[layoutshooter]

Well it isn't what you may think of. The interface is part of the trucks communications system and the qualcomm is just one of many devices that is on the same lines. It runs on 12 volts and there is a 'buffer' type protection for the ECM and other devices on the buss.

The problem sounds like it may have shorted out the buss but who knows. However I fixed a FedEx qaulcomm mess where the installer cut the wiring and spliced the qualcomm into the wiring. The EOBR is supposed to be plugged into the J1939 port under the dash and no where else. If it is spliced in, then there is a possibilities of serious damage to the entire truck's electrical.

I thought there may have been something in the system to protect the ECM. I have NO idea, yet, what the cause was for this guys truck. He will pass it along to me when he finds out. I will then pass it along to everyone in here.

There is a LOT of things being done TO our trucks today. One wonders if all the the planning and training has gone into it to insure as few problems as possible.

As you stated, you could fry a truck.

 

[jansiemoo]

The problem sounds like it may have shorted out the buss but who knows. However I fixed a FedEx qaulcomm mess where the installer cut the wiring and spliced the qualcomm into the wiring. The EOBR is supposed to be plugged into the J1939 port under the dash and no where else. If it is spliced in, then there is a possibilities of serious damage to the entire truck's electrical.

Is the J1939 port the same port that the shops use to plug into for diagnostics? If so, would they have to unplug the Qc to do that? Because if that's the plug under the dash they were supposed to use, I can almost guarantee it's spliced on ours... Will check when we stop.

 

[ATeam]

The problem was caused by the QUALCOMM. The ELECTRIC BRICK. The ELECTRIC NANNY.

Before going too far down this road, it would be important to know for sure that Qualcomm caused the problem. How exactly does your friend know that Qualcomm caused the problem? Who told him, and how does that person know?

 

[greg334]

Is the J1939 port the same port that the shops use to plug into for diagnostics? If so, would they have to unplug the Qc to do that? Because if that's the plug under the dash they were supposed to use, I can almost guarantee it's spliced on ours... Will check when we stop.

If it is spliced, then the installer needs to fix it or the dealer needs to fix it at the expense of the installer. If the carrier/installer gives anyone crap about it, ask for the install notes from Qualcomm and let them explain where the splice needs to be done.

So everyone understands how this works - it is the same for all of them. For the J1939 units, the EOBR talks to the ECM. When the EOBR senses a key on event (all qualcomms have this thing) it asks the ECM whether or not it is running and if it does, it polls the ECM every .5 second or every 2 seconds to see if the truck is moving - taking the signal from the trans PID. IF it is, then it counts the speed and if you don't put the right mode in (driving, driving while off duty, getting a shake at White Castles) it will flag the event.

The units that use the GPS system (I understand only two do), it is about the same except the unit looks for the GPS signal. The GPS units are made for the earlier trucks using the J1709 system and this is only because the carriers are toooo cheap to spring for the option.

NOW the requirements are simple, the FMCSA has said there has to be a tampering detection method built in, BUT it does not have to be where you unhooked the unit from the truck, it can be unhooking from the GPS unit or what ever they use to detect movement of the truck (which by the way I don't think is a requirement). The FMCSA regs have a lot of latitude with EOBRs and the way they can be designed, but for some odd reason Qualcomm and the others have made it look so difficult that they are the only ones who can handle it - not true by the way. The funny thing is I and a couple others adapted DDL with an interface to make DDL act like an EOBR. It meets every FMCSA and state requirement including the prevention of altering data and it is a whole much cheaper.

The use of the J1939 plug for diagnostic can be also tapped for the EOBR, to be exact Qualcomm among DD, Cat and Cummins (beside Freightline, KW and pete) all have a Y adapter for other test equipment to be hooked up at the same time. NOT a cheap item but someone can make it for under $60.

 

[layoutshooter]

Before going too far down this road, it would be important to know for sure that Qualcomm caused the problem. How exactly does your friend know that Qualcomm caused the problem? Who told him, and how does that person know?

A local shop told him. They have seen this before and Tom at FedEX is aware this can happen. I hope to find out more in the next day or two.

 

[ATeam]

A local shop told him. They have seen this before and Tom at FedEX is aware this can happen. I hope to find out more in the next day or two.

I'm just wondering if it was an installation failure instead of a failure of the Qualcomm device itself. If some hack took shortcuts with the Qualcomm install it might be said that the failure was caused by the Qualcomm unit when it really was the hack that is to blame. That's what is behind my question.

 

[greg334]

How hard can it be to install these things?

What is it like four wires and two cables with plugs on them?

 

[layoutshooter]

I'm just wondering if it was an installation failure instead of a failure of the Qualcomm device itself. If some hack took shortcuts with the Qualcomm install it might be said that the failure was caused by the Qualcomm unit when it really was the hack that is to blame. That's what is behind my question.

We shall find out soon. I am betting on a bad install but who knows? I don't have a lot of faith in all this electronic stuff. The more complicated you make it the more likely it is to mess up.

 

[RETIDEPXE]

"heavy rain"

What trans do you have?

We were at the 49er in Sacremento where I took my time going over the undercarriage wash jets pulling into the wash bay for a good cleaning. Upon pulling out, the allison in my '07 M2 went to N and would not shift into gear. After missing with trying to dry the harness out by the trans, it would shift fine upto 3rd untill it finally would not shift at all.

Towed to the local Allison dealer and $250 labor later (he told me it the harness was twisted a bit, by urs truly I'm sure hehe) and a bit of rewiring on the trans harness, I was on my way. No problems since, been about 200,000 miles ago.

Just a thought,
Retidepxe

 

[layoutshooter]

"heavy rain"

What trans do you have?

We were at the 49er in Sacremento where I took my time going over the undercarriage wash jets pulling into the wash bay for a good cleaning. Upon pulling out, the allison in my '07 M2 went to N and would not shift into gear. After missing with trying to dry the harness out by the trans, it would shift fine upto 3rd untill it finally would not shift at all.

Towed to the local Allison dealer and $250 labor later (he told me it the harness was twisted a bit, by urs truly I'm sure hehe) and a bit of rewiring on the trans harness, I was on my way. No problems since, been about 200,000 miles ago.

Just a thought,
Retidepxe

I am not sure which truck of his went out. They replaced a speed sensor, put in a "jumper wire" and replaced a wiring harness. Now they are arguing over the issue. It was likely an installation problem. No one wants admit fault.