Vans and cargo trailers-- don't do this.

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I had thought to put this in Dreamer's thread, but this doesn't properly fit there because that thread is about overloaded straight trucks. Finding the threads about vans towing trailers could take awhile and this doesn't properly fit there because it's about a seriously overloaded rig--- well, baby rig, anyway.

The other day, I hauled a mold-block from South Elgin, IL to Prairieville, MO. This block is about 2,500 lbs, so I had it loaded slightly ahead of my rear axle to balance the load better. It's within my legal limits, but pushing it. When I got to the delivery, the dock man talked to me about loading heavy stuff on CVs, and told me of a recent happening there. A guy had a van like mine, towing a cargo trailer. The guy insisted he could do the run they had, involving transport of three of these molds. Two on the trailer, one in the van. They loaded it, and-- the driver was back two hours later, he had barely been able to keep it on the road. Gee, I wonder why.

Overloaded, probably tail-heavy-- certainly the van was tail-heavy according to what the dock guy told me-- how could any safe outcome have happened? I'm surprised the driver got as far as he did and made it back to get the molds off of his "rig".

So-- I'm putting this out here for anybody else who thinks he might like to try it. Don't. Loading a set-up like this isn't as easy as it looks, and once you throw the front-end geometry off-- incredibly easy to do when you're as tail-heavy as this set-up undoubtedly was--your van-and-trailer becomes almost impossible to manage. Throw in the fact that this plant is near the Ozarks, and the destination-- if the guy had made it-- was in Mississippi, --- mountain driving in an out-of balance and overweight "rig" is no fun, even if it could be done. My wild guess is that it couldn't, since even a blind state trooper would have seen that coming and pulled him for a weight check amongst other things.

I wonder if some of these guys are even conscious when they come up with ideas like this.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
When Con-Way Now began operations they were using company owned E-350s pulling enclosed trailers. When I got on with them 5 months later the trailers that weren't wrecked were for sale. This was a foolish idea compounded by lazy drivers. Rather than unhook the trailer to load one or two pallets that would have fit in the van, they were loaded on the trailer.
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
When Con-Way Now began operations they were using company owned E-350s pulling enclosed trailers. When I got on with them 5 months later the trailers that weren't wrecked were for sale. This was a foolish idea compounded by lazy drivers. Rather than unhook the trailer to load one or two pallets that would have fit in the van, they were loaded on the trailer.

This wasn't well thought out by anybody. People think that because tractor-trailers do it, you can do it with a van pulling a cargo trailer. It's not the same thing.

First, the TT is built for the job. The fifth-wheel is positioned right over the drive wheels. My van would have the connection between van and trailer just behind the rear bumper. That throws the weight of the trailer connection on the extreme back of the van, behind all of the axles-- and even 500 lbs tends to get noticed when it's that far back on the towing vehicle.

Second-- somebody -- maybe you, Moot, but I'm not sure-- has mentioned that loading all the weight on the trailer and none on the van gives a problem simply because the van now becomes too light to handle the trailer.

"But, what about those pickups I see hauling heavy trailers" Uh huh. Fifth-wheel rigs. The fifth-wheel is mounted in the bed of the pickup, right above and maybe slightly ahead of the rear axle. That makes a HUGE difference in the way the vehicle responds. Our vans have no choice but to use hitches that mount under the rear bumper, with the receiver sticking out a little behind the bumper. Place 500 lbs over the rear axle, and your vehicle handles it OK. Place that same 500 lb tongue weight half a dozen inches behind your rear bumper and you'll feel it every time, I guarantee it. Especially if the trailer is loaded wrong. That half a dozen inches is about twenty behind the rear axle, and it's all about leverage now.
 

ebsprintin

Veteran Expediter
a weight distributing hitch would help, but then unhooking trailer involves more work and there is even less weight capacity available for freight.

eb
 

Big Al

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
When Con-Way Now began operations they were using company owned E-350s pulling enclosed trailers. When I got on with them 5 months later the trailers that weren't wrecked were for sale. This was a foolish idea compounded by lazy drivers. Rather than unhook the trailer to load one or two pallets that would have fit in the van, they were loaded on the trailer.

I was there when they proposed this and they asked my opinion and I was totally against it because you need an equalizer hitch to do it properly and that is time consuming. It is safe, I am at an RV Park now and a guy has about a 33 ' trailer with a triple slide pulling with a van, no problem. Also you need a trailer electronic brake control !

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mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
You also need to know how to properly load a trailer. Load the trailer tail-heavy, and--- you'll be sorry! It has to be loaded so at least 10 percent of the loaded trailer weight is on the tongue. For rough estimate-- if your trailer is loaded so the trailer weighs 5,000 lbs, the tongue needs to weigh at least 500 lbs. Less than that, and you can have a problem with the trailer whipping from one side to the other at highway speeds. This is not fun, trust me on this. I've never had it happen to me, but I've seen it-- and read about it.

Problem: When you're loading two skids on the trailer, the tendency is to load the heavier skid on the rear so the forklift can reach it easier. Bad mistake, the trailer will whip at highway speeds. The heavier load always goes in FRONT of the trailer's axles.
 

Big Al

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
You also need to know how to properly load a trailer. Load the trailer tail-heavy, and--- you'll be sorry! It has to be loaded so at least 10 percent of the loaded trailer weight is on the tongue. For rough estimate-- if your trailer is loaded so the trailer weighs 5,000 lbs, the tongue needs to weigh at least 500 lbs. Less than that, and you can have a problem with the trailer whipping from one side to the other at highway speeds. This is not fun, trust me on this. I've never had it happen to me, but I've seen it-- and read about it.

Problem: When you're loading two skids on the trailer, the tendency is to load the heavier skid on the rear so the forklift can reach it easier. Bad mistake, the trailer will whip at highway speeds. The heavier load always goes in FRONT of the trailer's axles.

You are so right about this and it was of my bullet points to ConWay of not doing this because of difficulty training drivers to load properly. It also takes experience to use equalizing hitches correctly. Back in the 60's they experimented with an Olds Tornado and a huge boat on a trailer, after removivg the back tires on the car I think they went accross CONUS with only the front wheel drive to make a point. Also it would be hard to train drivers to use brake controllers correctly. I have seen many RV's pulling in and when they brake the trailer skids because the controller is not adjusted.

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