Unions aren't to blame for Wisconsin's budget

witness23

Veteran Expediter
This has nothing to do with Wisconsins "budget woes" and everything to do with a political ideology, which I have no problem with, as long as you admit it, campaign on it, and get elected on that platform. In other words......OWN IT!!! you cowards!

link: Ezra Klein - Unions aren't to blame for Wisconsin's budget

Unions aren't to blame for Wisconsin's budget
Posted at 9:36 AM ET, 02/18/2011

By Ezra Klein

Let's be clear: Whatever fiscal problems Wisconsin is -- or is not -- facing at the moment, they're not caused by labor unions. That's also true for New Jersey, for Ohio and for the other states. There was no sharp rise in collective bargaining in 2006 and 2007, no major reforms of the country's labor laws, no dramatic change in how unions organize. And yet, state budgets collapsed. Revenues plummeted. Taxes had to go up, and spending had to go down, all across the country.

Blame the banks. Blame global capital flows. Blame lax regulation of Wall Street. Blame home buyers, or home sellers. But don't blame the unions. Not for this recession.

Of course, the fact that public-employee pensions didn't cause a meltdown at Lehman Brothers doesn't mean they're not stressing state budgets, and that the pensions they've been promised don't exceed what state budgets seem able to bear. But the buildup of global capital that overheated the American housing sector and got packaged into seemingly riskless financial products that then brought down Wall Street, paralyzing the economy, throwing millions out of work, and destroying the revenues from state income and sales taxes even as state residents needed more social services? The answer to that is not to end collective bargaining for (some) public employees. A plus B plus C does not equal what Gov. Scott Walker is attempting in Wisconsin.

In fact, it particularly doesn't work for what Walker is attempting in Wisconsin. The Badger State was actually in pretty good shape. It was supposed to end this budget cycle with about $120 million in the bank. Instead, it's facing a deficit. Why? I'll let the state's official fiscal scorekeeper explain (pdf):

More than half of the lower estimate ($117.2 million) is due to the impact of Special Session Senate Bill 2 (health savings accounts), Assembly Bill 3 (tax deductions/credits for relocated businesses), and Assembly Bill 7 (tax exclusion for new employees).


In English: The governor called a special session of the legislature and signed two business tax breaks and a conservative health-care policy experiment that lowers overall tax revenues (among other things). The new legislation was not offset, and it turned a surplus into a deficit. As Brian Beutler writes, "public workers are being asked to pick up the tab for this agenda."

But even that's not the full story here. Public employees aren't being asked to make a one-time payment into the state's coffers. Rather, Walker is proposing to sharply curtail their right to bargain collectively. A cyclical downturn that isn't their fault, plus an unexpected reversal in Wisconsin's budget picture that wasn't their doing, is being used to permanently end their ability to sit across the table from their employer and negotiate what their health insurance should look like.

That's how you keep a crisis from going to waste: You take a complicated problem that requires the apparent need for bold action and use it to achieve a longtime ideological objective. In this case, permanently weakening public-employee unions, a group much-loathed by Republicans in general and by the Republican legislators who have to battle them in elections in particular. And note that not all public-employee unions are covered by Walker's proposal: the more conservative public-safety unions -- notably police and firefighters, many of whom endorsed Walker -- are exempt.

If you read Walker's State of the State address, you can watch him hide the ball on what he's doing. "Our upcoming budget is built on the premise that we must right size our government," he said. "That means reforming public employee benefits -- as well as reforming entitlement programs and reforming the state’s relationship with local governments." Not a word on his actual proposal, which is to end collective bargaining for benefits.

If all Walker was doing was reforming public employee benefits, I'd have little problem with it. There's too much deferred compensation in public employee packages, and though the blame for that structure lies partially with the government officials and state residents who wanted to pay later for services now, it's true that situations change and unsustainable commitments require reforms. But that's not what Walker is doing. He's attacking the right to bargain collectively -- which is to say, he's attacking the very foundation of labor unions, and of worker power -- and using an economic crisis unions didn't cause, and a budget reversal that Walker himself helped create, to justify it.

And it's not as if public employees aren't hurting. In the Wisconsin budget report I quoted earlier, the state's fiscal bureau goes on to survey the state of the economy. "Going forward, Global Insight expects private sector payrolls to grow by 2.1 million in 2011, 2.6 million in 2012, and 2.5 million in 2013. Projected cutbacks in the number of public sector employees, however, are expected to partially offset those private sector gains. In 2010, the number of state and local government employees fell by an estimated 208,000 positions. In 2011, those cutbacks are expected to total an additional 150,000 positions." In other words, private jobs are coming back, but state and local jobs are still being lost. Public-employee unions are on the mat. Walker is trying to make sure they don't get back up.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The only cowards I see are those teachers, municipal workers and others who demand that they deserve something when their very job can be done cheaper and more efficient by people in the private sector who actually work.

It is a cowardly act to use school children to fight for your cause, talk about child exploitation equivalent to child pornography. It is an absolutely despicable act that these teachers even consider having children involved in a fight that is not theirs, let alone brainwash them into thinking that their education starts and stops with over paid teachers who may have to give up something to retain being employed.

Cowards are those who take to the street to fight for something that they have made into an entitlement. IT isn't up to them or their union to decide what the taxpayer or the state should pay them, that is a decision that rests with the state and those who they represent.

THEY are public servants, they work when they are needed and right now if the state can't afford to pay them, then they need to go.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
And from the other end of the political spectrum(emphasis mine):
Faced with a $3.6 billion budget hole and a state constitutional ban on running a deficit, new GOP Gov. Scott Walker wants public unions to pony up a little more. He has proposed raising the public employee share of health insurance premiums from less than 5 percent to 12.4 percent. He is also pushing for state workers to cover half of their pension contributions. To spare taxpayers the soaring costs of Byzantine union-negotiated work rules, he would rein in Big Labor's collective bargaining power to cover only wages unless approved at the ballot box.As the free-market MacIver Institute in Wisconsin points out, the benefits concessions Walker is asking public union workers to make would still maintain their health insurance contribution rates at the second-lowest among Midwest states for family coverage. Moreover, a new analysis by benefits think tank HCTrends shows that the new rate "would also be less than the employee contributions required at 85 percent of large Milwaukee_area employers."
Apocalypse Now: Wisconsin vs. Big Labor - Page 1 - Michelle Malkin - Townhall Conservative
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
The only cowards I see are those teachers, municipal workers and others who demand that they deserve something when their very job can be done cheaper and more efficient by people in the private sector who actually work.

It is a cowardly act to use school children to fight for your cause, talk about child exploitation equivalent to child pornography. It is an absolutely despicable act that these teachers even consider having children involved in a fight that is not theirs, let alone brainwash them into thinking that their education starts and stops with over paid teachers who may have to give up something to retain being employed.

Cowards are those who take to the street to fight for something that they have made into an entitlement. IT isn't up to them or their union to decide what the taxpayer or the state should pay them, that is a decision that rests with the state and those who they represent.

THEY are public servants, they work when they are needed and right now if the state can't afford to pay them, then they need to go.

What he said:D
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Gee a wet behind the ears progressive blogger and witness agree. I'm shocked.

You know jim, I've ignored your little "jabs" thus far, and I have chalked it up as your inability to rationally put a thought together. Your repeated projection is proof of your weaknesses, especially when you don't have anything to bring to the table except, "I know you are, but what am I"?
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
I think this would be an appropriate time to share this again.

Originally Posted by Turtle:
Many times there are folks who are more concerned with who posted something, rather than what was posted. Oftentimes this is the result of not being familiar with the substance of the post, not being able to understand it, or not being able to intelligently discuss it.

This lack of knowledge, a diminished capacity of the mind to perceive and understand some issues, or lack of intelligence generally, will often result in frustrations and even anger. Since those frustrations and anger cannot be directed towards the substance of a post they do not or cannot understand, they turn those frustrations and anger to the poster. They try to take the poster down a notch, and thus what he posted along with him, in order to make themselves feel less ignorant, less unintelligent, and generally overall better about themselves. It's very satisfying to "one-up" someone more knowledgeable or intelligent than you are, even if it is a hollow, meaningless fallacy that in reality only confirms the blissfulness of ignorance.

This is hardly a phenomenon unique to EO or even the Internet. It happens in all walks of life in nearly all situations. People should actively guard against falling into this type of trap, as it is an easy one to fall into. And a hard one to climb out of once trapped. Those who are trapped will deny it, sometimes vociferously, but will then usually immediately proceed to demonstrate to all that they are, in fact, trapped within the despair of ignorance and obtuseness. When they don't like or can't understand the message, they'll go after the messenger. It rarely works.

Sometimes none of the above is correct and they've just got a woody for someone. For example, like someone who brings up the name of another person from outside the current thread and injects into the thread, solely to take pot shot snipes at them. They resort to this type of cowardly behavior because they know that their emotionally based arguments cannot stand up to critical thinking and reasoning. When confronted directly on the issues and their stance, they will always respond by directly avoiding the issues and will instead deflect their responses to another issue altogether, rarely one that bolsters their position, but usually one that attacks the other person, either directly or indirectly. They have successfully avoided dealing with the actual issues, therefor they win, except that their woody ends up being a flaccid fallacy.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I think this would be an appropriate time to share this again.
All true. But of course there are exceptions to every rule. The exception usually sets in after a period of time when familiarity sets in, especially when someone becomes familiar because they tend to be a one-trick pony and post the same things over and over again, have a closed mind and refuse to consider the points of view of others, and often they themselves are the most guilty of the things they cry foul about. Before too long it is quite impossible to separate the post from the poster since they are more often than not one in the same. There are quite a few here on EO that fit into this category.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
I'm not sure if you have an opinion on what is happening in Wisconsin, you did take the time to post in the thread, but I haven't heard your take on the situation. I wouldn't want to think you are just drive-by posting and don't have an opinion on what was originally posted.
 
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