TOYOTA VS GENERAL MOTORS

[hondaking38]

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners and free pens and a certificate of completion for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower (a reduction in workforce) for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executive s as bonuses and the next year's racing team was 'out-sourced' to India ...

Sadly, the End.

However, sad, but oh so true! Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US

The last quarter's results:

Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

IF THIS WASN'T SO SAD IT MIGHT BE FUNNY!

 

[greg334]

Here is something I argued about the other day.

I was visiting someone at an auto supplier the other day, a VP. Later that evening my family and father had dinner over at his home. As usual his father and my father were sitting there complaining about the Japanese auto companies and turned on me with my comments that I support the Toyota and Honda here in the US.

Here was my point.

At one time, the domestic car companies all had a good market share. They enjoyed the control that they had, their collusion on setting the market prices but when they got some competition who undercut them to gain market share, they started to lose. This was in the 50’s by the way.

In the 70’s they lost more market share and didn’t learn a thing from the 50’s.

Fast forward today and we have three out of six that we had in the 50’s and they have less market share then they ever have had and the need to compete in the home market with more competitors today. They are doing great outside of the country but in their home market they are losing.

So their excuse is something rather odd, they blame their losing market share on labor, on health care and on unfair trade laws that favor the foreign companies.

As I told these too old farts;

Labor is not the problem – the labor cost has nothing to do with customer confidence.

Health care has nothing to do with it – health care cost has nothing to do with what the customer wants.

Unfair trade laws have nothing to do with it – the price for a car is the same between similar models.

The domestic car companies missed out on what the problem is, in order to have market share, they need a product that can sell.

They still make billions, they still have the power to make changes in the market but refuse to look at the competition and produce a product.

They cry about the costs but they also want to shift health care to the tax payers, not a secret. The issue with that is they need to put their efforts into demanding the relaxing of some emissions policies and force the US to harmonize the safety and emission standards with the EU so we can get some of the vehicles selling overseas here.

I pointed out that there is a big distinction between the two prevalent attitudes with all these companies – one attitude sees the need to go off shore to produce a product while another is building plants here to capture more market share. I would naturally want to buy a product that is produced here than buy one made by cheap exploited labor - but I am in the minority and apparently no one has any standards.

I had to make it a point that when I see GM closing plants (the company we used for the examples) and the ripple effect in the industry, I see Honda, Toyota and Kia opening plants that will also need supportive services and that mean more employment. It is amazing that the Honda plant will spur 8 times the jobs that they will have int he plants in the area they are opening their plaint.

As a side bar -
I have to point out that the recent UAW agreement also gave the company permission to close plants, we will close a couple more plants here in Michigan and I suspect that more will close with some sort of secret agreement between GM and the UAW.

Also here is an example of stupidity on marketing. GM has been putting out ads that they lead the industry and the world on alternate energy vehicles, pointing to the Volt (which is not in production, not even in preproduction) and how they are leading the world on electric vehicles and battery research (they out sourced a lot of engineering to India). Well for those who buy into this, I must point out the fact that Mercedes Benz has had fuel cell technology for a while with some buses and trucks on the road (and they have been working on other things) and the Tesla sports car and other electric cars in production. I think that before GM jumps up and down that they are leading the industry on anything, they need to look at Honda – a company that produces a robot that walks.

 

[EASYTRADER]

Im sure you liked "Letters From Iwo Jima" better than "Sands of Iwo Jima" too.

In wwii they had a name for people like you "Colaborator"

Incidently those GM Diesels you hillbillys are always bragging about are actually made by Isuzu.

I have to go. My Hino is done being washed.

 

[greg334]

>Im sure you liked "Letters From Iwo Jima" better than "Sands
>of Iwo Jima" too.
>
>In wwii they had a name for people like you "Collaborator"
>
>Incidently those GM Diesels you hillbillys are always
>bragging about are actually made by Isuzu.
>
>I have to go. My Hino is done being washed.

OK?

You missed the point.

First I won't watch Letters From Iwo Jima, I think that the reconciliation of the war can not take place until the Japanese admits to everything they have done and creating any sympathy for what I consider an enemy of the country is wrong.

Second, No I would not be considered collaborator if I lived back then.

Third, the last time I checked the engine I have in my van is a 6.5 and it was designed down the street from where I live art Detroit Diesel and produced here somewhere. The Duramax was design with a joint venture between GM and Izuzu but don't forget, outside of GMC truck and LMF GM has not been producing light or medium duty diesels as long as Izuzu has.

Fourth, I am not a hillbilly. I am not that good to be counted in those ranks.

 

[riverrat2000]

being called a collaborator is not warranted, what I got from the posts is the stupidity of the people in charge, they are the reason that Americans are losing their jobs, big business could give a rats ##### about being patriotic, and helping to preserve this country its ALL about the bottom line and how they can squeeze the last penny from hard working Americans!! just one example of hundreds in not thousands, how is it that American scientists, American factories then produce, and yet AMERICAN people cannot afford the drugs in this country, How is it that if they get shipped to another country they are sold for a fifth of what they would cost AMERICANS, we are being led down the garden path, our greatest minds, the strength of American manufacturing and the prosperity of the AMERICAN people is being exploited and drained so that other countries can have their goods at a reasonable rate, while we pay thru the nose and along with big business they also have a pardner in this crime called the federal government which allow this to happen, We need to wake up and stop this before its too late, if it isn't already

 

[buckeyewildman]

like i always say if you want an american made car buy TOYOTA

 

[riverrat2000]

and btw qs it turns out japan didn't lose they changed tatics, they let us rebuild their country with our money, they let us give them the technology to rebuild their country, they then let us protect them with our armed forces and money,all the while sticking it to us financially, and guess what, the crazy rag heads in the middle east have learned from the Japanese, we are bringing them out of the sewer and they are sticking us for the one thing we need from them,oil. so in the final analysis we have brought the rest of the world into a better life at the expense of the U.S. citizens, makes you wonder about the people that are our leaders, they got to know that these countries are laughing at us, all the way to the bank.

 

[Suds43]

WELL SAID GREG & RIVERRAT2000!!!!!! I congratulate you on telling it like it is.
And as far as I'm concerned, Easytrader, you owe Greg an apology.

 

[FIS53]

You got Rivrat. There was a saying I heard from some europeans many years ago. "Country has monetary problems and unemployment? Then start a war with the USA and lose. They'll rebuild the gov't, infrastructure, education system and factories and give you the money to do it. Also you get preferred trade partner status."

I really didn't think about it too much back then, but it does appear to be true.

Rob Fis

 

[whitey1]

Front page in the Indianapolis Star today was that the new Honda plant (in Greensburg)is paying substantially less wage than UAW standards, about $30,000/year versus $50,000/year (starting wage without overtime).
The article states they are doing this by locating their plants in rural areas with a lower cost of living that makes these wages attractive.
So far all of the workers in the Japan companies here in the US have
resisted joining the UAW.
Draw your own conclusions.

 

[greg334]

Suds43
No apology needed, I understand what he is getting at so it is no big deal.

Riverrat,
a couple quick things, there is a lot more to the idea that Japan changing tactics. After the war they expected to have their emperor hang for his crimes, have the country become a territory of the US and a lot of them wanted to actually become part of the US and expect us to take it seriously.

Yes we rebuilt their country but we also let a lot go. Our great general MacArthur ran interference for the emperor and others while letting us think that justice was served. and for the record, we ignored the advice of some people on how to run our manufacturing systems over here and when they got fed up with the ridicule they took their ideas to Japan and they listened.

The other thing is the drug pricing thing. First you have to understand that there is a lot more to this than just the price - there is the propaganda form these companies that they must sell drugs like Viagra at a $9 profit. but another time for all those details.

 

[Jack_Berry]

whitey1 that is a good point. a fella i worked with for the last year actually went from wisconsin to saturn in southern indiana(is that the place?) to look for a job and was told that they received less than uaw pay and did not get a 40 hr work week plus no bennies.

i have read that honda has a plant in ohio and then worked with the local parts suppliers to provide parts for them. one of the things honda did was to eat the up front costs for the dies so the companies could stay in business and get going with honda. do you think the detroit 3 could care about their american suppliers?

just wondering here cuz i don't know this but do the non detroit 3 auto plants have a uaw in their plants? does toyopta in texas pay less than uaw wages? how about mitsubishi in normal?

Jack Berry

 

[riverrat2000]

we already have the laws on the books they are just not enforcing them and hoodwinking all of us. think about the outcry over the Mexican trucks and what the government is shoving down our throats. And what you said about big business, sure they moved because it is easier and more profitable to go someplace that has little rules,regulations and with a small bribe any problems can go away,what about China for example, lead paint on toys, antifreeze in toothpaste, ect again as long as they make their HUGE profits they could give a rats ##### whether if kills someone of damages a child for life, sorry about getting on the soapbox but it has become obvious that this great Country of mine is in decline and greed,coruption,and power mad people in government are to blame, when are the American people going to say enough is enough. I for one am not going to vote for even one incumbent I don't care about their record or their promises if they are in office now they will not be if my vote counts for anything, at least if that happened the people in office would have a fresh start in trying to fix this mess. Oh and about the drug pricing well you call it propaganda I call it corporate greed and there should be a law against it American products should NEVER cost American citizens more than foreign citizens that is just plain crazy and unconscionable.

 

[greg334]

“well Greg you actually made my point, No.1 the leaders in government, cares more about foreign goodwill than what the people that elected them do,as in your example with japan, expand a little bit, today the "people" overwhelmingly had told the government that we want the southern border garded and the illegals kept out of our country,period, result they are fighting between themselves on what laws are needed, we already have the laws on the books they are just not enforcing them and hoodwinking all of us. think about the outcry over the Mexican trucks and what the government is shoving down our throats.“

Let’s look at these issues seperatly.

First there is a difference between America post war through the 1960’s and today. When you look at appeasement issues, they didn’t exist as they do today. What I mean is it wasn’t appeasement but two factors involve with Japan, one was we didn’t have real roots in Japan as we did in Germany so people were less incline to care about the goings on there and second we were tired as country. Even the great 50’s, we were tired as a country and did not care.

One problem I see is the country needs another 9/11, as sad as it sounds, we have absolutely no cohesion as a country, we are for the most part made up of three groups; one that hates, one that wants to see America strong and one that does not care – with the majority in the last group. If you don’t believe me, carefully look at the political makeup of the country and see who is in the news more. I also feel, strongly feel that the people are at fault for all these problems, because they don’t care. The Mexican border issue is an easy one to solve; I described the solution a while back and after hearing an interview with Chertoff, I believe my solution is the only one that can work on that border. Not drones, not remote sensing, not a fence but a real border. If you missed it, my solution is a good one, a one half mile buffer zone from one end of the border to the other with nothing there except a great big ditch and walls. I believe that if we can take an old ladies house in New London for Pfizer, we can take the land from one end of the border to the other for national security – screw some of the ranchers down there, they don’t care about our country anyway. AND for those who say it can’t be done, well in the 1930’s we built things like the Hoover Dam and the TVA with manual labor, imagine what we can do today with machinery we have and the people who are not working. BUT this will not happen until that group of people who don’t care gets off their a** and does something about it. Maybe we actually need to go back to the idea only land owners are allowed to vote?

“And what you said about big business, sure they moved because it is easier and more profitable to go someplace that has little rules,regulations and with a small bribe any problems can go away,what about China for example, lead paint on toys, antifreeze in toothpaste, ect again as long as they make their HUGE profits they could give a rats ##### whether if kills someone of damages a child for life, sorry about getting on the soapbox but it has become obvious that this great Country of mine is in decline and greed,coruption,and power mad people in government are to blame, when are the American people going to say enough is enough. “

Well first off you like cheap stuff? When was the last time you asked what the country of origin was on a product and refused to buy it? I am sorry but the lead in the toys things I am not sympathetic, parents are stupid today and should not depend on the government to be the big brother for their kids and the same goes for the consumer. This is one major cause of the problems we have today, we have grown to the point that it is the government’s job to watch every aspect of life for us. The stupidity of the American consumer is amazing, we want cheap things and we want cheap labor and no one thinks about how it got on the shelf in the first place. It is not because we can’t afford things; it is because we have too much money we ‘need’ to spend on entertainment and toys for ourselves. When the consumer wakes up and starts demanding quality and willing to pay for it, things can change but not until there is awakening nation wide about the issue, it won’t matter. Remember one thing I was told in college, no corporation has a device that forces us to buy something. It is our own inability to judge what is needed and what is wanted and we as individuals look around and see what others have but we do not need and because of jealousy it turns a want into a need.

“I for one am not going to vote for even one incumbent I don't care about their record or their promises if they are in office now they will not be if my vote counts for anything, at least if that happened the people in office would have a fresh start in trying to fix this mess.â€

I agree, I only voted for one incumbent last election because he actually did something he was told to do (actually a few things) but this time he does not get my vote because he went along with the tax increase in the state.

“Oh and about the drug pricing well you call it propaganda I call it corporate greed and there should be a law against it American products should NEVER cost American citizens more than foreign citizens that is just plain crazy and unconscionable.â€

I think you misunderstood, I was calling the ‘need’ to sell a drug like Viagra at a $9 profit propaganda, there is no need to make $9 on each pill as much as there is no need to advertise to the consumer about the drug. Their total cost to bring that to market was less than $5.5B and it has been one of the most prescribed drugs after Lipitor – that is sad. AND brings up another point, when we talk about the high cost of healthcare, Viagra is a pleasure drug for 99% of the prescriptions handed out, why do insurance companies pay for it?

Truthfully, you really have to see the drug pricing issue from the inside to see how it all works, it is amazing and when you look at the entire program they use, you know one thing – the American consumer is the one who subsidizes other countries. I know that we should have never created the social security drug program, that was a bad thing and the government refused to do what other countries do, they tell the drug companies what price they will pay based on their cost but we didn’t.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Greg is right...nothing builds a country better then a good old fashion war...Iraq sorry to say is NOT a full blown war more a police action and does little for our economy...

Look at history and correlate the economies after and during a Great War.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

About the prescription deal:
Most of mine I get at Walmart under that 4 dollar deal for generic and the ones that aren't I get from the internet in Canada for less then half the U.S. cost INcluding the shipping!!

Lipitor goes on the generic list next year and the FDA just refused the maker a renewal on the "new and improved version" to keep thiet patent rights. The FDA ruled the formula wasn't changed enough to make a difference. They finally did thier job.

 

[greg334]

>Lipitor goes on the generic list next year and the FDA just
>refused the maker a renewal on the "new and improved
>version" to keep thiet patent rights. The FDA ruled the
>formula wasn't changed enough to make a difference. They
>finally did thier job.

No that means that Pfizer didn't do their job when presenting the Supplemental New Drug Application to the FDA board. The FDA is a political machine and there will be something done that will create the extension and if not they will still make a ton of money. Lipitor is not the drug that is their worry, it is Viagra and they have nothing in their pipeline to replace it - they axed one drug that would have been great but it didn't make enough money.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Why does the U.S have such long patent rights? Is that the pharm companies lobby at work?

 

[greg334]

You really need to look at the history of the FDA and not the revised history. It always has been a part of the political process.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It could be said...

The more I am exposed to the government processes down here, you guys are almost as government controlled as in Canada.