Toronto couple defend move to keep baby's sex secret

[Turtle]

Wrong. For the same reasons that little boys naturally gravitate to playing with toy trucks and little girls want dolls and an EZ Bake Oven, this was a no-go from the start. He was always masculine, no matter how frilly the dress his parents put on him.

Sex roles: the law of nature, not a pastry.

I agree. People are born that way, whatever way they are born, and its not a choice. For these parents to leave it up to their kids to choose to be male or female is just silly, because nature has already chosen.

Be that as it may, I think the parents should be able to raise their kids in any manner they see fit, and do so without any meddling from others.

 

[scottm4211]

I agree. People are born that way, whatever way they are born, and its not a choice. For these parents to leave it up to their kids to choose to be male or female is just silly, because nature has already chosen.

Be that as it may, I think the parents should be able to raise their kids in any manner they see fit, and do so without any meddling from others.

That's exactly my point as well. It doesn't matter how foolish they look, and it certainly shouldn't involve having the kids removed because the parents go against the grain.

 

[EnglishLady]

I agree. People are born that way, whatever way they are born, and its not a choice. For these parents to leave it up to their kids to choose to be male or female is just silly, because nature has already chosen.

Be that as it may, I think the parents should be able to raise their kids in any manner they see fit, and do so without any meddling from others.

Scott stated earlier that no laws had been broken - so the only meddling will be from the dogooders.

But .....

this is not a case of, do you tap a child on the botty or the leg, or, children should be out of diapers by 2 years old ..... this is far more serious and I do believe that someone should intervene for the childrens future and sanity.

I hold to my previous post that the parents need re-educating.


As always IMO

 

[cheri1122]

Perhaps, having a 5 year old who wears his hair "in long braids", the parents will soon see just how difficult school and socializing is for kids who look and/or act 'different', before too much damage is done to the poor tots.
It seems kids have learned that ridiculing the mentally or physically handicapped is wrong, so maybe someday they'll learn that 'different' isn't necessarily bad - but we're not there yet. Shame on the parents who ignore that reality and encourage their kids to be different enough to be a magnet for meanness.

 

[layoutshooter]

As "Weird" as these people are they have done nothing that merits removing those kids. Will it serve those kids well? I don't believe so. Is it MY or the governments business? NOPE!

Just as it is NOBODIES business if a man has 6 wives (why a man would WANT 6 times the trouble is beyond me) or a women have 6 husbands.

Government is in our lives FAR too much.

 

[AMonger]

I hold to my previous post that the parents need re-educating.


As always IMO

Unfortunately, this isn't an issue in which education is an issue. Crazy mom and crazy dad (if you can tell which is which) are ideologically driven. They truly think sex is a matter of plumbing, that there are more than two sexes, etc.

They believe people who disagree with them need education.

Those children need to be rescued. It may be too late for the older one our ones, but we need to rescue the ones that can be saved. And then on to Elton John's house to rescue that child.

I don't trust the gummint for much, but there's something they can do to re-earn the people's trust.

 

[Ragman]

Just as it is NOBODIES business if a man has 6 wives (why a man would WANT 6 times the trouble is beyond me) . . . .

LOL LOL

 

[chefdennis]

LOL, I got your point Turtle....

 

[AMonger]

As "Weird" as these people are they have done nothing that merits removing those kids. Will it serve those kids well? I don't believe so. Is it MY or the governments business? NOPE!

Just as it is NOBODIES business if a man has 6 wives (why a man would WANT 6 times the trouble is beyond me) or a women have 6 husbands.

Government is in our lives FAR too much.

Well, true, but even better than government doing something would be the neighbors going over there and taking the kids themselves. Just tell the chips beforehand so it doesn't seem like a kidnapping. That way, we could even abolish CPS and their abuse.

You know, back when the church had more respect, the assistance of the local minister would go a long way.

 

[scottm4211]

Well, true, but even better than government doing something would be the neighbors going over there and taking the kids themselves. Just tell the chips beforehand so it doesn't seem like a kidnapping. That way, we could even abolish CPS and their abuse.

You know, back when the church had more respect, the assistance of the local minister would go a long way.

Yeah that sounds reasonable...

 

[EnglishLady]

LOL, I got your point Turtle....

Nature has already made the choice for them yes - but without the nuturing and morals etc of each determined sex these poor children are going to grow up oblivious to what their sex really means to them.

I am presuming here - but I would think if the parents have gone this far then they have removed absolutely anything that refers to/or is to do with "boys & girls" from the childrens surroundings.
Not a natural environment at all



As always IMO

 

[layoutshooter]

"Nature has already made the choice for them yes - but without the nuturing and morals etc of each determined sex these poor children are going to grow up oblivious to what their sex really means to them."

Yeah, their parents suck. They are a bit "behind the 8 ball right from the start" so to speak. There is ALWAYS the high school locker room to straighten things out. Not to mention a HUGE dose of teenage hormones.

Nature NORMALLY defeats weird parents.

 

[cheri1122]

Well, true, but even better than government doing something would be the neighbors going over there and taking the kids themselves. Just tell the chips beforehand so it doesn't seem like a kidnapping. That way, we could even abolish CPS and their abuse.

You know, back when the church had more respect, the assistance of the local minister would go a long way.

I'd strongly advise any 'neighbor' who felt justified in taking MY children to have their last wishes known, because they're not coming back.

Of all the asinine suggestions, this is a blue ribbon contender for Worst Solution Ever.

 

[Turtle]

this is not a case of, do you tap a child on the botty or the leg, or, children should be out of diapers by 2 years old ..... this is far more serious and I do believe that someone should intervene for the childrens future and sanity.

Far more serious, eh? Kids raised in traditional, perfectly functional "normal" families (which doesn't exist, BTW) have problems in society, just the same as kinds raised in classic dysfunctional families (which is the norm). Either they'll figure it out and survive in society, or they won't. If they get tired of being ridiculed or excluded, they'll alter their behavior. Kids (and many adults) go through all kinds of stages, from wanting to be very different and set apart, to being homogenized into the crowd, and everything in between. Eventually, they figure out what works best for them, whether they are raised by Ozzie and Harriet or a couple of wacked-out ideologues from Toronto. It won't matter. They'll either figure it out, or they won't.

When you get right down to it, is what these parents doing really and truly fundamentally different, or far worse, than the parents who indoctrinate their kids with religious fundamentalism, racism, political ideology, or for that matter being raised in white trailer trash squalor in the Appalachians? What about kids raised in the projects? Some kids make it and do OK, some don't. But that's also true for kids raised in the suburbs.

Whether you raise your kid to be a pageant queen, a drama queen, or a drag queen, they're gonna end up doing whatever they want to anyway. Some will figure it out, some won't.

 

[chefdennis]

Sue, read Turtles post #21 again and think real hard about the group of people the alot of society keeping telling that how they live is a "Choice" and not from "nature"...then you have those that chose to live that Life style and they say it is NOT a Choice, just how they are my "nature" and we have those that will raise the question of "WHY would anyone "CHOOSE" to live "THAT" way.....

We are here debating if what these parents are doing is right, Amonger sayes that they were born as they are, "nature" decides.....ok thats fair....does that also go to ones "sexual IDENITY"...or just their plumbing.....

 

[scottm4211]

I'd strongly advise any 'neighbor' who felt justified in taking MY children to have their last wishes known, because they're not coming back.

Of all the asinine suggestions, this is a blue ribbon contender for Worst Solution Ever.

I mean why stop at neighbor? Why not any old stranger? Or yeah have the church take them lol FFS.

 

[layoutshooter]

"I'd strongly advise any 'neighbor' who felt justified in taking MY children to have their last wishes known, because they're not coming back."

Geez, when I say things along these lines I get lambasted.

Neighbors taking your kids is NO different than LEO's busting down my door.

That is why I keep my house armed.

 

[EnglishLady]

Far more serious, eh? Kids raised in traditional, perfectly functional "normal" families (which doesn't exist, BTW) have problems in society, just the same as kinds raised in classic dysfunctional families (which is the norm). Either they'll figure it out and survive in society, or they won't. If they get tired of being ridiculed or excluded, they'll alter their behavior. Kids (and many adults) go through all kinds of stages, from wanting to be very different and set apart, to being homogenized into the crowd, and everything in between. Eventually, they figure out what works best for them, whether they are raised by Ozzie and Harriet or a couple of wacked-out ideologues from Toronto. It won't matter. They'll either figure it out, or they won't.

When you get right down to it, is what these parents doing really and truly fundamentally different, or far worse, than the parents who indoctrinate their kids with religious fundamentalism, racism, political ideology, or for that matter being raised in white trailer trash squalor in the Appalachians? What about kids raised in the projects? Some kids make it and do OK, some don't. But that's also true for kids raised in the suburbs.

Whether you raise your kid to be a pageant queen, a drama queen, or a drag queen, they're gonna end up doing whatever they want to anyway. Some will figure it out, some won't.

wow. you brought up many points here but the one at hand is still, IMO, yes a serious one (as are all that you mentioned too btw)

Yes the children are going to go through h*ll and back, but why would a parent want that for their children is beyond me.

I wouldn't condemn the way a child is brought up if they were given ALL options with explanations and taught to have an open mind of their own.

I never forced religion on my children, I gave them the options with explanations, they researched for themselves and came to their own conclusions.

These children, as far as we can tell, are not being given options with explanations.

Our job as parents is to teach our children - so unless these poor children are destined for some commune their lives are not starting out well at all and could have serious consequences in the future.


As always IMO

 

[cheri1122]

"I'd strongly advise any 'neighbor' who felt justified in taking MY children to have their last wishes known, because they're not coming back."

Geez, when I say things along these lines I get lambasted.

Neighbors taking your kids is NO different than LEO's busting down my door.

It's a LOT different. A house is not a human being dependent on me for protection - LEO's damage the house, it will be repaired, at their expense, but anyone who attempts to kidnap my children is a clear and imminent threat to my children, and I have every right to stop them with lethal force.

That is why I keep my house armed.

 

[greg334]

First thing that comes to mind it seems no one here commenting has gone through the system or had a complaint lodged against them. If someone shows up to your door to take your kids who are law enforcement, I doubt you will stop them. I further think that your nightmare will get a lot worst if you use force.

The second thing that I think is an issue is that life is a b*tch and a number of people want to be different when they are adults not to fit into a mold while at the same time dragging their kids along for the ride then blame others for the problems the kids have. Kids in school are cruel creatures and as Sue pointed out "Yes the children are going to go through h*ll and back, but why would a parent want that for their children is beyond me." it seems that people, some parents more accurately expect the life of the kid to be protected from any criticism of their life style to be a priority. I for one don't feel that we should ever put those who want to be different into the same category as a disable person.

These are their kids, we can't be the protector of their kids, we need to concern ourselves with ourselves - which means the car seat thing to the worrying about how parents raise their kids is superficial at best but can do worst for the kid.