TIRE WEAR

SHARP327 · Jul 22, 2004

HI EVERYONE! I HAVE A 2003 INTERNATIONAL 7400, I'M HAVING TROUBLE FINDING OUT WHY MY STEERS ARE WEARING ABOUT AN INCH ON THE INSIDE AND EQUALLY WEARING AN INCH ON THE OUT SIDE OF BOTH FRONT TIRES.

I'VE SEEN TRUCKS LIKE MINE AT ALUMI-BUNK IN THE PARKING LOT AND THEY HAVE THE SAME WEAR PATTERN GOING ON AS I DO, AND I KNOW OF OTHER DRIVERS THAT ARE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM!, AND THEY REPORT THAT IT GETS WORSE AROUND A 65K WHEN THE TIRE STARTS CUPPING.

I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THERE'S NO ADJUSTMENT ON THE CAMBER OR IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE CASTER (NOT REAL SURE), AND I'VE BEEN TOLD TO LOWER THE AIR PRESSURE THEN I WAS TOLD TO RAISE THE AIR PRESSURE SO I REALLY DON'T THINK IT'S AN AIR PRESSURE PROBLEM.

WHEN HAVING WORK PREFORMED THE OTHER DAY AT AN INTERNATIONAL DEALER THE WRITE UP GUY MENTIONED HAVING THE FRONT AXLE BENT BY A TRUCK REPAIR CO. IN NASHVILLE TN., HAS ANYONE ELSE EVER HEARD OF THIS PROCEDURE? I GUESS IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO ADJUST EITHER THE CASTER OR CAMBER.

HAS ANYONE ELSE FOUND A FIX FOR THIS PROBLEM? OR HAS KNOWLEDGE OF A CURE? NO ONE THINKS IT NEEDS AN ALIGNMENT BECAUSE THE TIRES WEAR THE SAME!

THANKS ALOT! AND BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!
SHARP327

Glen Rice · Jul 22, 2004

The problem you're having is not uncommon on long wheelbase trucks. The driver that recommended having the axle bent is exactly correct. Try to have the vehicle full of fuel and your truck equipment you would have onboard on the truck the day of alignment. There are many good alignment shops and a few dishonest ones so keep your eyes and ears open. The Michelin dealer in Fort Wayne out by the truck stop on Route 30 is excellent. Too name just one I've had experience with. Good luck, your not alone on this one. We all have fought the same problem. Be sure to check tire pressures and maybe automatic tire balancers would also benefit you also. If you get a chance to show up to the Expeditor Expo there will be reps there to talk you through your tire wearing problem also. Best of luck and keep us posted how you do.

Doggie Daddy · Jul 23, 2004

sharp, are you sure that's a 2003 international. it might be a 2004.

;-) DD.

SHARP327 · Jul 23, 2004

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP GLENN! THE TRUCK REPAIR IN NASHVILLE WAS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED BY THE INTERNATIONAL DEALER IN MURRAY KY. I DIDN'T BOTHER GETTING THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER YET BECAUSE I WANTED TO GET SOME INPUT FROM THE FOLKS ON EO 1st. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

GEE DD I'M NOT REAL SURE WHICH IT IS! BUT MAYBE SOMEDAY IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE SOMEONE WILL BE ABLE TOO TELL ME FOR SURE!, AND SEEING HOW WE HAVE SISTER TRUCKS I'M STARTING TO WONDER WHICH ONE OF US HAS THE LITTLE SISTER TRUCK?

WELL I HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A REAL NICE WEEKEND!
TAKE CARE OUT THERE!

SHARP327

davekc · Jul 23, 2004

We had this problem at one time and found out when the vehicles are new, they use rubber bushings on the kinpins. Replaced ours with brass bushings, and the tires wear perfectly now. Alot of times a alignment will not catch this defeciency. A cumputerized suspension machine usually will.
Hope that helps.
Davekc

ClassicOne · Jul 23, 2004

Hey Sharp... here goes... there are 3 major angles working on any front wheel. Castor is the steering axle axis. On our straight axle trucks the castor is set at the factory and usually not adjusted by shops. Camber is the angle at which your tire meets the road from top to bottom. Camber can be adjusted on a straight axle truck only by bending the axle (sometimes there are adjustment kits available the can adjust the kingpins but that gets into a whole other mess) and finally there is the toe in/out adjustment. If your tires are wearing both inside and outside evenly with no cupping, inflation sometimes can be the culprit. Higher pressure will cause the center ribs of the tires to balloon out and balance wear. But you are playing with fire, so don't overinflate the tires. It is more likely that there is a combination of factors, probably your camber can be reset like Glenn posted and then have the toe in/out checked afterwards. I've attached a drawing trying to explain myself better... sorry for the quality... the truck is bouncing alot..MI roads

SHARP327 · Jul 23, 2004

MAN THIS IS HARD TO DRAW A PICTURE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING WHEN I'M MAKING A TURN, MY HATS OFF TO YOU CLASSICONE!!!!!!!!!! I CAN'T PUT IT TO PAPER WHILE SITTING HERE AT MY DESK AND I CAN'T IMAGINE TRYING TO DO IT WHILE GOING DOWN THE ROAD IN MICH. SO IN A LAST DITCH EFFORT I'LL TRY AND EXPLAIN WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHEN TURNING THE TIRES POINT IN DIRECTION I'M GOING (that's a given) BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY'RE LEANING OVER AT AN ANGLE CAUSING ONE TIRE TO WEAR ON THE INSIDE EDGE WHILE CAUSING THE OTHER TIRE TO WEAR ON THE OUTSIDE EDGE, SOMETIMES AFTER MAKING SHARP TURNS IN A PARKING LOT I'VE NOTICED THAT RUBBER IS SCUFFING UP ON THE EDGE OF THE TIRE TO THE POINT OF BEING ABLE TO BRUSH IT OFF WITH MY HAND,

NOW HAVING SAID THIS! DOES IT STILL SOUND AS THOUGH HAVING THE AXLE BENT WILL HELP THIS PROBLEM?

I HOPE I EXPLAINED IT GOOD ENOUGH! AND I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE FEEDBACK!

OH BY THE WAY! THANKS davekc I'LL ASK ABOUT THE BUSHINGS TOO!BECAUSE MINE HAS THE URATHANE BUSHINGS AS WELL, AND I WASN'T REAL HAPPY WHEN I FOUND THAT OUT AFTER TELLING THE LUBE MAN NOT TO FORGET TO GREASE THE KINGPINS!

YOU ALL BE CAREFUL OUT THERE! SHARP327

davekc · Jul 25, 2004

Hey sharp
After they check the kingpins, if you are getting alot of scrubbing on the front tires, the front may still be fine. Have the back axle aligned.
Just rule of thumb with vibration is that if you are getting vibration through the steering wheel it is the front. If it is through the seat or your seat is vibrating, then it is the back axle.
Hope that helps.
Davekc

gambler · Jul 26, 2004

i have exp. the same type of probs b4 with the "mud-snow"type tires (thick lugged) but they would wear real weird not inside/outside etc but sporadically up/down on diff. luggs. what i was told is that it's common for "medium duty" trucks that are long wheelbased and traditionally make long non stop type runs with often times no where near their load capacity. apparently all of this when combined with "line haul" type driving hundreds of miles at a time with no real "turning" tends to tear up the tires.and that we should be happy if we get 125,000 miles out of them (steers) in my case they were firestones. i replaced them with the top of the line goodyears and so far have had no issues again.
on a side note i also believe a lot of that can come from the trucks sometimes sitting a yr or 2 b4 being sold(new trucks) just like getting "lot rot" from sitting.

truckercop · Aug 5, 2004

Hello:

Re: Improper / Unusual Tire Wear

Did you ever correct this problem. I have been tackling this problem for a year now. I run Michelins on front and it gets rather expensive at 430.00 a tire.

This is what I have been told and observed:

The wear pattern on my tire has been refered to as "river wear". The pattern is highly unusual, in that the inner portion of the outside tread will wear down almost to a quarter inch, leaving the outer portion in a normal wear pattern. Even more odd, this will occur randomly over partial treads in a jagged fashion. If you look at it from a short distance, it looks like 1/2 inch wide rivers running randomly throught the treads. Actually, if I was not looking at the tire wearing this way, I would say that it is impossible. But it is occuring... To better describe the wear pattern, when I first noticed on a trip back from California, I actually enterained the idea the someone got a sharp instrument and cut large gaps out of the tire, it was that clean and smooth and new looking.

I have also have noticed that I too am able to wipe/brush off little rolled up pieces of rubber (similar to what kids do when they rub their hands together and make little rolls of dirt/skin). The worn part of the tire is very clean and black. This occurs mainly on the front right steer but the driver side steer is also doing it at a slower rate.

Diagnosis to date:

* Too little air pressure (added air to 110 lbs, seems to have slowed (maybe))
* Tandems are set back too far under my 22' box, adding too much weight to the front (possible, but the problem started showing up sometime after some guy ran a red light and hit my right steer tire).
* Uneven tires (one newer than the other).
* Alignment (had tri-axle alignment done three times by two companies)
* Too much city driving (thats obviously not it).

I would appreciate any info that you can offer on this situation. Especially if you did fix it. Who? Where? Location?, etc.

Thank you, all help appreciated from readers.

davekc · Aug 5, 2004

If it has not been tried, find a dealer that has a suspension machine
This will find where the weakness is. It sounds like your kingpins or the bushings on them. This problem will not be detected through a alignment. The wear you describe fits this perfectly. Centramatics,changing air pressure, alignments ect will not correct the problem. When replacing the king pins use brass bushings and at the same time, replace the front bearings. Make sure they don't over tighten the bearings as you don't want smoking hubs going down the road. Also, suspension machine will detect a bent wheel, brake pressure ect.
Let us know what happens
Davekc

NEVERHOME247 · Aug 6, 2004

I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH TIRE WEAR. I PUT TWO NEW STEER TIRES ON MY TRUCK WITH CENTRAMATIC BALANCERS. THEN I TOOK IT TO A PLACE IN THE GRAND RAPIDS MICHIGAN AREA CALLED: SPEED WRENCH THEY DID A COMPLETE ALIGNMENT WHILE I WAITED AND THEY DID BEND MY FRONT AXLE. AND I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM WITH TIRE WEAR SINCE. I HIGHLY RECOMEND THIS PLACE FOR ALIGNMENTS. THEY ARE FAST,FRIENDLY, AND AFFORDABLE. I HAD MY TRUCK ALIGNED AT MANY DIFFERENT PLACES AND THEY SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONES WHO COULD GET IT RIGHT. THEY HAVE STATE OF THE ART ALIGNMENT EQUIPMENT AND THE GUY THAT DOES THE ALIGNMENTS KNOWS HIS STUFF.

gambler · Aug 6, 2004

dave that is a long/expensive process to go through ,and from what i have seen hasnt helped thusfar. as was mentioned this has been called "river wear" and i too have had this problem with the MICHELIN tires in my case it isnt just the fronts though it was also with 1 rear very badly and 1 kinda bad the other 2 perfect shape.of course good luck getting MICHELIN to cover any of this under warranty. and dave for the record the front tires on mine did this with 50,000 miles on the truck!

davekc · Aug 6, 2004

I am assuming that alignments et and all have been tried. You are correct, replacing kingpins is a expensive deal. At 50,000 the kinpins might be ok but the bushings are worn. They are the same as the shocks on your car essentially. If centramatics and alignments don't help, the only other thing I can think of is to go to a different tire. Bridgstone 280's are a stiffer tire with less tread depth. That may help in the river wear problem. We have those and so far have not experienced any irregular wear.
Hope that helps. I am running out of ideas!
Davekc
I am assuming also that your shocks ect are ok.

RichM · Aug 7, 2004

This is probably not the answer but I thought I would pass this on.My neighbor is a US Customs inspector mainly checking out ships and their cargo.He told me that the country has been flooded with false Michelin tires.They are made to look just like Michelins but are 100% counterfeit made down in the Carribean. Best to go to a Michelin Dealer and check the serial numbers of the tires..

SHARP327 · Aug 7, 2004

WELL IT SEEMS THAT THIS IS MORE OF A COMMON PROBLEM THAN IT SHOULD BE! I FIND IT ODD THAT WE SHOULD HAVE TO FIX SUCH A PROBLEM ON NEW TRUCKS, AND WHY ISN'T SOMEONE (who knows what's wrong) TELLING US ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE INVEST THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND SHOVING US OUT ON THE ROAD TO FEND FOR OUR SELVES? KNOWING THAT FINDING TIME TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE!

ANYWAY! WHILE ON THE WAY BACK TO OUR HOME 20 WE DECIDED TO STOP AT A TRUCK TIRE CO.LOCATED IN TN. ON HWY.51, I ASKED THE GUY INSIDE IF HE COULD TELL ME WHY MY TIRES ARE WEARING LIKE THEY ARE AND HE TOOK A LOOK AT THEM AND SAID THE WEAR WAS CALLED RIVER WEAR AND WAS CAUSED BY USING THE TIRE IN OTR OPERATIONS, HE SAID THE TIRE IS A REAL GOOD TIRE IF USED IN LOCAL OPERATIONS BUT NOT DESIGNED FOR OVER THE ROAD USE.

HE SHOWED ME AN OTR STEER TIRE AND SAID THAT THE OUTER MOST TREAD IS CALLED A DECUPPING GROOVE WHICH HELPS IN KEEPING THE TIRE FROM CUPPING.

57K IS WHAT I HAVE ON THIS TRUCK/TIRES AND NOW THE TIRES ARE STARTING TO CUP AND THE STEERING WHEEL SHIMMIES A LITTLE ON SMOOTH PAVEMENT, I'M GONNA CONTACT A FEW COMPANYS AND SEE WHAT KIND OF A RUN AROUND THEY GIVE ME AND SEE WHO BLAMES WHO!

IF THIS WAS HAPPENING ON THE FAMILY CAR WOULDN'T IT BE A SAFTY ISSUE?

YOU ALL TAKE CARE OUT THERE!

SHARP327

dieseldiva · Aug 7, 2004

Sharp, as you know, ours starting showing wear at 30,000 mi. Good luck with the runaround you're going to get and by the way, they will probably offer you a new set of tires of a generic nature if you're willing to take the time off and drive the distance to pick them up! How are we supposed to trust ANYTHING they say or do after what they've put us through? I'd just as soon have nothing to do with them but when I think of it, that's probably what they're counting on!

Of all the things I've lost in my life, I think I miss my mind the most!!

davekc · Aug 7, 2004

We have had this problem on numerous trucks. When the trucks are new, they use neoprene rubber bushings. They wear out like the bushings on a pair of shocks. They need to be replaced with brass bushings. If alignments and centramatics don't work, then it is changing to a different set of tires, maybe shocks or the above. There is not much else to pick from.
Davekc

Doggie Daddy · Aug 7, 2004

dave, i don't doubt that what you say about the bushings is in fact part of the problem.but on the other hand, i also know that tire manufacturers also make different tires for different applications. the tire that sharp is refering to is the goodyear G159(i know this because we have identical trucks)i myself have been told by a knowledgeable goodyear salesman that these tires were never meant to be used in OTR applications, and sharp has been told the same thing. having said that ,i think it is totally wrong for unscrupulous truck builders to put certain combinations of truck equipment together(when they know full well what the usage will be)and then be reluctant to rectify the problems that occur while you are are just trying to use the vehicle for the purpose that you bought it for(mostly OTR usage).DD.

davekc · Aug 7, 2004

You are right on the tires. I was assuming they were using the correct ones. As mentioned in my earlier post, Bridgstone makes a 280 and a 287 tire that is better for a OTR application. I only have had Michelins once on a Freightliner. I never was sold on them and put them on a trailer. They (Bridgstones) are a harder tire but won't cup or wear out the sides. They are for OTR application.