the plane, the plane!
- Thread starter aristotle
- Start date
I hope this group of rebels are better then the Egyptian rebels....that are now threatening to break the peace agreement with Israel...
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Why don't we start worrying about what is going on in our own backyard and get the hell out of NATO.
If people are so concerned and the change needs to be done, START forcing the African Union to step up to the job and clean up their own. Keep us out of it.
BUT then many here and in the media have a skewed sense of direction on foreign policy and seem to think that we need to be involved with all of this crap to "fix" the problems that have been around for two thousand years.
If people are so concerned and the change needs to be done, START forcing the African Union to step up to the job and clean up their own. Keep us out of it.
BUT then many here and in the media have a skewed sense of direction on foreign policy and seem to think that we need to be involved with all of this crap to "fix" the problems that have been around for two thousand years.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
I agree with you Greg, we should get out of NATO as it is setup right now. I think the reason we don't is it is another foothold for a one world government.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
Its not just the one world soccer team thing but beyond that. NATO was intended to deal with the Soviet bloc and once it was gone, we should have said "ah ... we're done here, see ya ... " but rather we had to expand NATO and with the EU members armed forces, it does not make sense to continue down that path.
Furthermore why so we need to be involved, why can't Germany or Italy deal with Libya or Syria, they have a part to deal fulfill too.
I still want to know who the rebels are in Libya and what assurance we have that we won't see another Al Qeada base of operations in the near future - no one seems to really care, they just want to spread democracy but I think it is like spreading syphilis.
Furthermore why so we need to be involved, why can't Germany or Italy deal with Libya or Syria, they have a part to deal fulfill too.
I still want to know who the rebels are in Libya and what assurance we have that we won't see another Al Qeada base of operations in the near future - no one seems to really care, they just want to spread democracy but I think it is like spreading syphilis.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
I know what you mean, helping the people of Afghanistan fight the Russians didn't turn out so well for us. We just focused in on one thing and lost sight of the big picture.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
The bombing of Pan Am Fight 103 didn't happen 2,000 years ago.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
So is that why we are spending all this money and taking a BIG chance in replacing one person who is not a threat with a regime that may be worse?
There is no clear path, nor there is any clear leadership which we can relate to in the bigger picture, like there were in Iraq or are in Iran.
IF so our foreign policy is really ******** up and we are headed for more problems than we can handle.
The problem I see is we should have done that a while ago, not now. We didn't have some of the internal issues back in the 90's as we do now and we are not entangled in the middle east being the dog to prevent the Saudis or other Arab states from being attacked.
Ever think that our being there isn't about Israel?
May be this idea that we are liberating people in a foreign country while in our own backyard we have mass killings that spill over into our country. As cruel and cold as this sounds, Pan Am 103 is not comparable by any means.
tbubster
Seasoned Expediter
Here is a pretty good lead also should let The world know who the rebels really are,or atleast give us an idea.
New Jersey Senators Call On New Libyan Government To Extradite Lockerbie Bomber | FoxNews.com
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well for some odd reason I don't see any point in trying to get him while we have others who have more American blood on their hands with things that are done directly to people within our own borders.
Isn't that more important?
I am guessing that it isn't for those who don't see the big picture or that we are being used by those for their own purpose on the world stage
Maybe I'm bothered by the idea that people get their feathers ruffled over those who are escaping the violence and hardship to our country by any means possible while at the same time the same people seem to support intervening into a civil war where there is no end game in sight with money we don't have, no real value with our involvement that just happens to go against our laws just because of what happened 20 years ago and the revenge they want.
Kind of stupid if you ask me and more so counterproductive to what we should be gaining in the middle east/Africa. You may be surprised to know that we may wake up in the morning and find out that we have enemies with those who we helped gain power because of their view that we are continuing our crusade against their religion.
What is lacking is the foundation for any and all arguments that we should be part of a regime change or this idea that we need to "spread democracy" - two more common themes used in both the press and in these forums/blogs. Many are claiming that we failed in Iraq, and failing in Afghanistan but who is to say we won't fail in Libya or Syria when - not if - we send in troops?
Having seen the reaction to 31 soldiers who died, I also wonder if our national psyche is equipped for a real war, because if all hell breaks loose in say Syria and we do have to go in there, 31 may be a daily number and we as a nation may not be able to handle it.
Isn't that more important?
I am guessing that it isn't for those who don't see the big picture or that we are being used by those for their own purpose on the world stage
Maybe I'm bothered by the idea that people get their feathers ruffled over those who are escaping the violence and hardship to our country by any means possible while at the same time the same people seem to support intervening into a civil war where there is no end game in sight with money we don't have, no real value with our involvement that just happens to go against our laws just because of what happened 20 years ago and the revenge they want.
Kind of stupid if you ask me and more so counterproductive to what we should be gaining in the middle east/Africa. You may be surprised to know that we may wake up in the morning and find out that we have enemies with those who we helped gain power because of their view that we are continuing our crusade against their religion.
What is lacking is the foundation for any and all arguments that we should be part of a regime change or this idea that we need to "spread democracy" - two more common themes used in both the press and in these forums/blogs. Many are claiming that we failed in Iraq, and failing in Afghanistan but who is to say we won't fail in Libya or Syria when - not if - we send in troops?
Having seen the reaction to 31 soldiers who died, I also wonder if our national psyche is equipped for a real war, because if all hell breaks loose in say Syria and we do have to go in there, 31 may be a daily number and we as a nation may not be able to handle it.
Freightdawg
Expert Expediter
Get the hell out of the UN also!
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Give us an idea of what?
That the one person who was tried and convicted is in Libya and those senators are asking the "new" Libyan government to send him here?
So he gets here, he gets free health care and free legal advice ... then what?
Two years to live, don't think they are going to execute him or even get to trial.
I can tell you he won't just die while in route here, there are too many people involved with this - from the UN to the Hague court.
I don't see where this is explaining who the new government is, what connections they have or may have to terrorist organization or any other needed information. All we get from Obama and congress is this BS line that they have been vetted but from the track record in other things, that is suspect and open to interpretation.
NATO is corrupt and we need to get out. When the Soviets return, and they would LOVE too, let 'em have Europe. They can bail themselves out if they so chose.
We messed up in Afghanistan the first time. We KNEW how to keep the Taliban at bay. They were not like by the majority of the tribal leaders, they are STILL not for the most part. The idea of "setting up" a western style government is foolish. All we needed to do when the Soviets left was provide assistance in rebuilding infrastructure and schools. We had the chance, we knew what to do. Specifics were on the table and we just blew it. We paid the price. Now we have a mess that just pulling out will not fix.
We messed up in Afghanistan the first time. We KNEW how to keep the Taliban at bay. They were not like by the majority of the tribal leaders, they are STILL not for the most part. The idea of "setting up" a western style government is foolish. All we needed to do when the Soviets left was provide assistance in rebuilding infrastructure and schools. We had the chance, we knew what to do. Specifics were on the table and we just blew it. We paid the price. Now we have a mess that just pulling out will not fix.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I'm wondering Layout if our involvement with Afghanistan has to do more with providing stability to the India/Pakistan situation or actually trying to topple the Taliban and replace it with a government run by the people?
I thought about what is going on in Germany right now, a call for a single leader and shedding some of the democratic system to be replaced by the system from the post Weimar period. Could it be that the Afghan people either do not want to have a democratic society or in capable as a while to have one but want to be led as they have been for centuries with one ruler and only one ruler?
Back to the Libya thing, I don't see our involvement of just setting up a government and walking away but maybe another Iraq. I feel that the Arab league may ask us to continue our work through the UN or NATO and return nothing to us while we have all the risk.
I thought about what is going on in Germany right now, a call for a single leader and shedding some of the democratic system to be replaced by the system from the post Weimar period. Could it be that the Afghan people either do not want to have a democratic society or in capable as a while to have one but want to be led as they have been for centuries with one ruler and only one ruler?
Back to the Libya thing, I don't see our involvement of just setting up a government and walking away but maybe another Iraq. I feel that the Arab league may ask us to continue our work through the UN or NATO and return nothing to us while we have all the risk.
Mr. G, Im laughing my backside off,,u need to use humor more often, yep , this was ur best yet.