The Last Straw?

[layoutshooter]

Haiti has been a mess, to say the least, for a very long time. Life there is always a challenge, no work, little income or hope a anything better.

Now this. There are reports of looting starting up, not judging people there have nothing to live on, and there is a fear that violence and total lawlessness will erupt.

Our troops and aid workers are in a pressure cooker that could explode at any minute. That would put our troops in a very dangerous position. There are few things on this earth more dangerous than a wounded animal.

We may find ourselves in a fight, having to defend aid workers against mobs that really have no other option open to them.

This is fast becoming a worst case senario. I pray that a way to sidestep this is soon found.

 

[greg334]

You know Layout, the problem is not the people but the d*mn media again.

Like Katrina, they are looking at the worst people could do and assume that this is a fact while telling us how bad it appears to be.

The real issues have to do with aid workers who are not dealing with the looters or the gangs but the people themselves trying to beat the '72 hour' self-impose deadline. After that 72 hours is up, they will shift from one form of recovery to another and that is where problems will start with the people who don't understand what is going on.

It is like when I was in Africa, the UN was supposed to be there to secure the area so we could do the work but never were around. Their concern, the same with our military being involved with any humanitarian operation is more to ensure their security and the cultural sensitivity is maintained so not to offend the people we were all trying to help.

 

[layoutshooter]

I am not putting on blame, I understand what is going on there. It is a pressure cooker though. There is great potential for trouble.

I know that the U.N. is doing as little as possible, that is what they always do. Our troops should not even be there!! This is not what they are trained to do. Their job is to break things and kill people in defense of the Nation. They are not policemen. They are much better at fighting. If threatened they will react to that threat as trained, with whatever force they need to protect themselves and the aid workers. It could get very ugly.

The people of Haiti are soon going to be at wits end. I don't know just how much more they can take. It is not a dump on those who live there, people can only take so much, then they act. The action may not always be right, but it happens.

 

[SuperDuper]

There are few things on this earth more dangerous than a wounded animal.


This cold statment says much more about you than you will probably ever understand.

 

[skyraider]

Its bad,,how would we react say in N Y or Ca or anyother place in the USA

 

[layoutshooter]

There are few things on this earth more dangerous than a wounded animal.


This cold statment says much more about you than you will probably ever understand.

No, I fully understand what I meant. It was not a "cold" statement, it was calculated from a standpoint that I used for 20 years. It was from a "protect" our troops standpoint. I don't want to see U.S. troops killed in "another" rescue mission. It has happened in the past, and very well could happen here.

In times of great stress, and this qualifies as that, mobs often revert to animal behavior. These are just facts. I pray that nothing goes wrong but there is great potential for it to do so.

Rotting bodies everywhere, little food or water. Little medical care and no housing. They are very poor to start with and now have nothing. When you send armed troops into a situation like that they often become the scapegoat for the frustrations of those in trouble.

So yes, I fully understand what I said and what I meant. I doubt that you fully do, I feel like you may be trying to read more into it than was intended.

 

[SuperDuper]

They are people not animals. Your desire to infer otherwise boldly shows how you feel. These are people with very little who have just lost most everything they had, including many many lives.

To call them animals anytime, but especially now cleary shows a cold heartless individual. I pity you and anyone who comes into contact with you.

 

[layoutshooter]

Whatever, those who's lives I saved while running as a volunteer firefighter and EMT hated to see me arrive, they often died before I got there just to avoid having me work on them.

Emergency workers are often attacked by those who try to rescue them. Also, keep in mind, these are American troops, a very large number of them combat vets. They are trained to react and kill when threats present themselves.

We have lost lives on missions such as this in the past and will again in the future.

I guess you don't understand the word, analogy either. It is a valid comparison as people often revert when stressed. Shoot, in Detroit, not all that long ago, some of the wonderful "people" there used to call in false fire and ambulance calls so that they could shoot up the crews.

You don't know me, you are just reading word floating around in space. You only know a little of my background from what I have said in the past, if that. It does not matter. I know little of yours either. On the surface, if I wanted to play your games, I would have to say that I would not want you with me in a combat situation, as my back up on a hose making an advance into a fire or as my hose person (sorry, don't know your gender, not that it matters) covering me while I made entry into a car to render aid. But I don't want to play that game.

 

[Shadowpanda]

Super its pretty obvious to me at least that Layoutshooter was speaking metaphorically. Give him a break eh?

I've seen a lot of people getting upset at our troops being there, but the fact is this is NOT simply a humanitarian mission there now.
Its also Geo-political self defense.
Haiti is now a failed state and having a failed state in one's region is highly undesirable. They become very fertile ground for bad people (like Al Qaeda and the Talib's) to come in and set up shop. Haiti being highly Catholic is of course not ideologically prone to that, however there are others (like Chavez in Venezuela) who would take any opportunity to take a stab at the US via any means. Those poor people are now desperate for food, water and shelter and desperate people will turn to anyone and do ANYTHING to solve those three very basic human requirements.

 

[greg334]

Super, I understand what you are saying but lets be frank about it, we all have animal instincts which are adjusted by our environment and up bringing. These people have lived lives what we can't imagine - our poorest of our poor still have better lives than most of they do. But as an example, the last "big" event we had, we were seeing worst behavior than they seem to have in Haiti, why is that?

From what i have been told this morning, they are far from the animals like I saw in Africa. I have seen some horrific things over in Africa and I would have expected a lot better in Haiti. Knowing the culture a bit, it is not what you would call civilized at times but so far they are doing well in that area.

They have been not stacking up bodies and letting them rot waiting for people to come along to bury them but burying the bodies themselves. They have been angry at news reporters who didn't provide a bit of help but running around eating snack food while wiating for the right 'subject' to interview. They are not angry with aid workers and almost all who are still in shock but not making demands or telling aid workers that they will not eat an MRE.

Most of the carnage which was broadcast to the world about roving gangs shooting people has yet to happen in mass. Our state and local police departments are sending LEOs down there to help with the confusion and they seemed to be welcomed by the people.

As desperate as it may appear to be, they have faced tragedies before and know what to expect. They have been xcondition through absolute true poverty to deal with things most of us here can't understand let alone have the fortitude to deal with. They have had charities involved with the country for years on different issues and many who have lost everything are unlike our people who demand retribution and answers but accept things as they are.

I repeat this - if you can give, do so - Red Cross

 

[layoutshooter]

So far it has been ok, not too much silly stuff going on. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[greg334]

I think with the presents of Hillary and the former presidents, the people will be in awe of the spectacular dog and pony show and the violence and killing by the gangs will stop. Some of the victims will be hand selected for effect to be part of the staged "executive style" assistance that will be happening with these clowns just to make them look good.

You got to ask yourself what difference would it be to have them there, getting in the way with their massive secret service and FBI security forces in a country ravaged by a natural disaster? Would God come down then and say to the poor people of Haiti that the presents of our former leaders and our inept SoS has change his mind and he will preform a miracle to help them, like instantly rebuild their country?

The interesting thing that I heard today by some BBC America commentator was we are not just in a position to help the country but because we controlled the country and forced them to be slaves during the 19th century, we are obligated to do something.

 

[layoutshooter]

Who gives a flip what the BBC says. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Just look at the old British Empire.

 

[chefdennis]

I really don't see what anyone thinks we WILL do down there for the long term....lol, we still haven't taken care of New Orleans and all of the other out laying areas after Katrina and that was what 5 yrs ago....this will be a life time deal and we aren't in this for the long haul...This is nothing but Politics and nothing more....

Anyway, as was said, we are simply dumping more money that we don't have and will have to print or borrow into this mess and it will be short term and nothing more......

 

[layoutshooter]

Been dumping money down there for years.

 

[chefdennis]

You think that these people won't act out when they feel they have no other way...well as was said, our military is not in the humanitarian business, it is not what they are trained for...and if this continues, you will see jusy how bad the people can become....

US Admiral Says Aid Distribution 'Stymied'

Emily Schmall
Sphere

ABOARD THE USS CARL VINSON (Jan. 15) – Supplies are not reaching victims of the massive earthquake that hit Haiti on Tuesday because of a coordination failure among military operations and humanitarian agencies, Navy Rear Adm. Ted N. Branch said today from the flight bridge of the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.

Finish reading at the link below:

USS Vinson's Admiral Says Haiti Aid Distribution 'Stymied' by Poor Coordination - Sphere News

 

[Pilgrim]

Haiti was a disaster even before the earthquake. The US has been wringing its collective hands over this squalid little piece of land for decades, and has thrown no telling how many millions of dollars at this waste pit with absolutely nothing to show for it. This place hasn't had a functioning government in recent memory, and the result is an uneducated, poverty stricken population that ranks at the bottom of the world's per capita income levels. As we've seen and heard again in recent days, even before the latest disaster there was no infrastructure and very few areas with even basic utilities. They have no natural resources, and the corrupt rulers, past and present, have siphoned off any wealth that the country might have generated. Any forests that existed have been mostly clear cut by the desperate population looking for building material and wood for fuel. There are very few places on earth that are so absolutely hopeless.

Of course the picture of Haiti we always see is that of the pathetic raggged child in the street covered with flies and tears running down her cheeks. The picture that we don't see that is far more appropriate is the one of roaming criminal gangs, plundering anything remotely salvageable and ready to kill the first relief worker they encounter for their clothes. Unfortunately, these are the types that will be more likely to wind up on the streets of south Florida to avail themselves of Barack Obama's welfare system.

Why the US continues to waste money on Haiti is a mystery. Of course this is the politically correct action to take - try to lift up the downtrodden in their time of need. However, the brunt of this burden should be assumed by the UN. The US should participate with a modest amount of money and resources, not nearly what we're expending at this point. At this point in time, it is simply not in our national interest to spend $100 million borrowed from China only for Obama to enhance his international image and so the American public can feel good about themselves. There is no more hopeless endeavor with which we could be involved than to invest so many resources in cleaning up the mess and attempt nation-building in Haiti.

 

[skyraider]

I can't believe some woman has not said: " Build them a Walmart and all will be okkkkkkkkkkkkkkk..amen?

 

[jaminjim]

Did you know that the Clintons honeymooned there?

 

[layoutshooter]

Too bad that they just didn't stay there. Then we would not have been inflicted by them.