team load, solo load, any load

[LDB]

There is always talk of "team" loads and "solo" loads going on here in the forums and out in the parking lots when two or more expediters get together. I'm going to really stir up the hornets by saying in general team loads are runs over 550 miles that require straight through delivery as well as loads less than 250 miles. OHHHHH the gnashing of teeth I hear.

Here's why I say that. Teams have basically unlimited hours available to run, provided they don't exceed their 70 hours in 8 days limit. With 192 hours per 8 calendar days and figuring optimal use of line 1 a team could basically never quit running. Solos on the other hand are limited to 11 hours to run without a 10 hour break added in. Most long runs don't have the luxury of allowing that much time so if a solo starts their clock for a 154 mile run they are pretty much guaranteed they have a 154 mile day because of the 11/14 limit. If a team takes the 174 mile run they can follow that up with an 832 mile run picking up 3 hours after the 154 delivers. That would give the team around a 1000 mile day. Solos really need more than 250 miles to make a half way decent day, with 4xx-550 being preferred but then again a certain group wants ice water too.

Obviously dispatch can't insure solos runs of 400 or so miles because too many other factors have to be considered when booking loads. Likewise, teams can't be expected to only do 4 minis per day. My main point with this is that there aren't "team" loads and there aren't "solo" loads, there are just "loads" and they have to be covered the best way possible. Teams need to be just as ready to take loads of <300 miles as solos and if a solo gets a nice 562 mile run not to feel slighted because it didn't go to the "team" truck. It did, just a solo driving member of the "team".

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[x06col]

Leo, the "team" spirit, for the good of the whole does not exist out there. For the most part it's "me", "me", "me". Let "me" have the revenue sooo "I" can go home, or, go wherever. Folks just can't allow themselves to cooperate and graduate.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Leo... what you're missing here is the logistics; and if you've ever teamed you'll know what I'm talking about. A team taking a 200 mile run isn't being utilized to their potential. I'm not talking about the only truck in an area here. And granted, the HOS screws things up so no one wants the 200 miler.

What I'm getting at is a 200 mile run + loading/unloading takes 5 hours, on average. In that 5 hours, a team could miss a potential "team run". I know what you'll say... a short run could lead to a long run. I could counter with the fact that you could have other trucks in front of you when you deliver. What good does it do to take a 200 mile run unless it gets you into a better area? Yes... $300 richer for the truck, which comes to $60 per driver. That's $12/hour if the shipper/con ONLY take a half hour each... then there's other factors that go into planning the trip which cut into that time.

If you have the luxury of being the only team in an area, why not bide your time and try to get something worth while? Since you have two sharing the drivers' slice of pie, it just makes better CENTS.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[davekc]

So many variables. Hawk is correct, logistics, other trucks in the area, available frieght all play a role in the decisions. I would however look at the area and then the income potential ahead of a certain milage figure. Some places like Chicago obviously would by different than Tampa, FL. If one is going to Tampa, one better make sure either the load pays enough to go in and leave, or they know where they can obtain the next one without waiting days on end.
Sometimes that 300 miler can be as profitable as a 500 miler.










Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Won't argue with that, Dave. Good tactics always play into anything where you have to use your brain. Another reason disproving the myth that a load is a load is a load.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[jaminjim]

Yes but, how about giving the team an automatic first out for taking a team mini. (200-300 miler)

 

[Tennesseahawk]

If it's the company I think you're refering to, Jim, their first outs aren't worth the qualcomm they're typed on. It's gotten to the point where you need to be first out on the "first out board". How silly does that sound?

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[Teflon]

Yea, Hawk....you took the words right out of my pie hole.

Dispatch has a bad habit of offering the worst load to the "first out"
because if they refuse the load they go straight to the bottom of the list.

 

[greg334]

Leo,
I am going to throw this in;

Every company is different. FedEx operations and selection criteria is different from Panther which is different from Land Star. Trying to apply the same set of rules for all can't be done.

x06col
"Folks just can't allow themselves to cooperate and graduate."

There is no cooperation or graduating in the real world. This is all about ME and MY bottom line. Because I have absolutly no means of communication with my fellow FedEx contractors at large when it comes down to the loads that FedEx has to offer us, I don't care about my fellow FedEx contractors when it comes to my revenue as they do not care about me.

 

[lanier1]

I have been wondering what x06col means by "graduate". I figured I had a good idea and still do. I have all the team spirit in the world when it comes to my work. When I get in my truck I have the desire to represent FedEx in a way anyone would be proud. When I accept a run I have a responsibility to my carrier and the customer to complete the run according to all expectations. I wish all my fellow contractors the best of luck in all their endeavors but I have no responsibility for their success as they have none for mine. In that respect it is each of us is on our own. However, if I can help someone in some way I would be more than happy to do so. If x06col has decided to "graduate" to some higher ground I am not aware of and offers assistance to the rest of us I would like to hear what services and or assistance that is.

 

[ATeam]

I think Leo raises an excellent point. I believe drivers that put too much emphasis or expectations on team vs. solo loads can hurt themselves by turning down loads that might otherwise be good to take.

As Diane and I see it, a load is a load, whether it is a 30 mile run or 3,000. When an offer for a short run comes in we consider the run on its merits at that moment. If it is a quick morning shot from an airport to a warehouse 30 miles away and it pays a couple hundred bucks, we'll take it and be happy to bank some easy money before breakfast. If the same load was offered at 2:00 PM and delivered the next day, we would likely turn it down because it ties the truck up too long and renders us ineligible for other offers that tend to come later in the day.

When considering offers, the team/solo load distinction never really enters our mind. We have seen several drivers hurt themselves by sitting in an express center and turning down short runs in hopes of getting a 1,000 mile plus run later on. The trouble with that approach is the long run may not come for a day or two. Zero-income days bring your monthly average down real fast.

Regarding "Cooperate and Graduate," the Colonel brings me back to my Officer Candidate School days at Fort Benning, GA, where I last heard and applied the term (RA commission, Infantry, Distinguished Military Graduate, at IOBC took great pleasure in leaving half the West Point newbies in my dust and gasping for breath at morning PT. Those were good days!).

There, "cooperate and graduate" meant all students in the intense and challenging course (only half graduated) should learn how to work together. Doing so would lighten everyone's load and thereby increase everyone's chances of graduating and receiving their commission (move from enlisted to commissioned officer).

An example would be when it was your turn to serve as fire guard, a job that totally sucked and left you staying awake all night in the barracks while all others slept, when sleep was a very, very precious commodity, you would offer to spend the time shining the boots of all other students in your platoon.

Come morning, you were bleary eyed, your hands were black with shoe polish, your fellow Officer Candidates were grateful for the time you saved them that they could put into their studies, and the favor was later returned to you.

Cooperate and graduate worked in OCS. I don't think it applies in expediting. Expediters have individual goals, not shared goals. Perhaps as a small carrier, a compensation schedule could be devised that is based on the cooperate and graduate ethic. Profit sharing comes to mind. But for those of us who run for large carriers, I believe it best to consider each load on its merits and act in your own best interests.

 

[x06col]

That's good, you represent you and your Carrier in a way that would make anyone proud. According to you. It is a given that you could care less about your fellow O/O and drivers. That is not the whole I was refering to obviously. I choose not to share much with anyone except our Contractors and drivers, frankly. After all, the mediocrity I see out there is good for business.

GRADUATE: To advance to a new level of skill, (prepare for more difficult, sensitive, higher paying loads)achievement, (generate more revenue)activity, (keeping moving with the freight available).

Would you like me to splain cooperate?

 

[joebob1_30132]

Leo is correct.. there are just loads. Working out a benificial combination wheather team or solo can be difficult.
Dave is right on with his statement businessman first driver second.
I wont make the same money out here that can make being at home.With that I will take the most benificial money making loads with delivery time location and miles available in consideration.
A dispatcher one time offered my team a 90 mi p/u for a 110 mi load I respecfully declined ..she said why . and I countered her offer with give me everything in the load and all d/h .50 mi back to lexington and first on the bourd ( which I think is over rated)..Her reply was "there is not that much money in it" ..I asked why would I take then. Her reply "got to take the good with the bad ..my reply No I dont.Im not an employee im a contractor. You have no liability in this truck.. no payments,no repairs, no maintenance, I get no salary, no healthcare, no 401 you do not pay my insurance, my fuel. nor do you pay for my time off. you dont pay for my towing ..and you dont pay my mortage. As a broker you own very little with very little liability. And when you are done for the day..you get to go home !!
WE AS OWNERS INCUR ALL THE COST !!!! HOW IDEAL FOR ANY BROKER!
Hey brokers put me on some money..And I WILL DRIVE THE H*LL OUT OF THIS TRUCK.
Hey its the nature of the this business and can work within it .. but I don not have to take the good with the bad..IM a businessman not an employee.

 

[grog111]

I think, as phil stated above, that we all have to do what is in "our" best intrest. However, that being said, what is "our" best interest? Sometimes it does mean taking that short low paying load, "sometimes". That is to say, that if i don't co-operate with the broker/agent/dispatcher, we may no longer have this customer. Do i care? Dunno. Depends on the customer. Sometimes i'm asked to be up and ready to go and have my truck cleared of ice and snow and have coffee in hand at seven A.M. Is that fair? Not when i'm not called for my first run until 11:00. But if i stay in bed until 11:00 is that in my best interest? Probably not. So in that respect i do have to co-operate to graduate....to the next level of income :+ So, does that make this buisness any easier ? NO. Not really. I still have to consider the miriad of aspects involved in EVERY load, and the best part is i'm usually only given 27 and a half seconds to proccess it all I don't like the idea of crawling over top of others just to get ahead, but i realize others will do that to me in a heartbeat. But i think we're all looking for the same thing basically. An equal opportunity to make money. And if i have to take one for the team, i try to remember that someone else probably did too. As funny as it sounds, i know i'm not the lone ranger. We've all had similar life experiences, but i cannot de-value yours just because they did'nt jibe with mine. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as each load has to be evaluated on it's own merits.

 

[LDB]

Responses are pretty much as expected. Teams would rather sit 5 hours making nothing waiting on that "team" load than run 200 miles and make some money and then get that next load. Turning wheels = money. Fewer turns, less money but still more than zero turns zero money. I like $12/hr lots more than $0/hr.

My bigger point that seems lost in the suggestion that loads are loads is that a solo operator has to be more selective in acceptance due to HOS limitations. Taking a 2xx mile load pretty much guarantees only doing 2xx miles that day. Taking a mini pretty much guarantees at most a couple of minis or at best an under 200 miler to go with the mini.

I don't have a solution. I wish I did. From a strictly solo operator viewpoint there would be at least 400 miles on the first run of the day every day. If there was a mini or short run after it that's great. The shorty as a day opener means red ink for the day. Let the teams run the shorties since they can keep on running. From a strictly team operator viewpoint don't bother us for less than 800 miles and be sure every day has an 800 mile minimum run. Let the solos run the little stuff.

Obviously we all want as many miles as we can legally run. I'm suggesting that teams shouldn't get offended and insulted by being offered shorter runs and based on posts here that does happen fairly regularly. Teams need to also remember they have no time limitations other than needing a 34 hour restart. They are free to run every minute outside that limitation so don't get torqued when solos try for better load consideration.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[lanier1]

I don't believe I stated I didn't care about my fellow O/Os and drivers. I did state I am not responsible for their success nor are they mine. I also stated I would be happy to help someone when possible. I joined OOIDA to do something for the good of the "whole".

Graduate. Thats close to what I thought you meant by the word and I agree that graduating should be a natural progression as one gains experience and knowledge about the business to ensure continued growth and success. I have no doubt that I still have alot of graduating to do. Have you finished graduating?

I doubt you are the right one to define cooperation given the condescending and sarcastic tone of most of your replys. According to me that is.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

>Responses are pretty much as expected. Teams would rather
>sit 5 hours making nothing waiting on that "team" load than
>run 200 miles and make some money and then get that next
>load. Turning wheels = money. Fewer turns, less money but
>still more than zero turns zero money. I like $12/hr lots
>more than $0/hr.

So you know for a fact I'm going to get that next load, huh? You're a better psychic than I am. If you like $12/hour, I hear they're making that much managing at McD's in some places.

>My bigger point that seems lost in the suggestion that loads
>are loads is that a solo operator has to be more selective
>in acceptance due to HOS limitations. Taking a 2xx mile load
>pretty much guarantees only doing 2xx miles that day. Taking
>a mini pretty much guarantees at most a couple of minis or
>at best an under 200 miler to go with the mini.

That's why I said no one wants that 200 miler... and for good reason. If it were coupled with a pre-dispatch, that would be more worth the while.

>I don't have a solution. I wish I did. From a strictly solo
>operator viewpoint there would be at least 400 miles on the
>first run of the day every day. If there was a mini or short
>run after it that's great. The shorty as a day opener means
>red ink for the day. Let the teams run the shorties since
>they can keep on running. From a strictly team operator
>viewpoint don't bother us for less than 800 miles and be
>sure every day has an 800 mile minimum run. Let the solos
>run the little stuff.

No one said that. Obviously if there's only one truck in the area, and it's a team, they're gonna get offered everything. To me, that's when you should consider "taking one for the team." 800 mile runs? I can count them on two hands when I was TEAMING with Panther. In fact, our avg was more like 350 miles.

>Obviously we all want as many miles as we can legally run.
>I'm suggesting that teams shouldn't get offended and
>insulted by being offered shorter runs and based on posts
>here that does happen fairly regularly. Teams need to also
>remember they have no time limitations other than needing a
>34 hour restart. They are free to run every minute outside
>that limitation so don't get torqued when solos try for
>better load consideration.

Like you said, you are a solo. If you've never run team, you don't understand. Thankfully, I'm with a company that neither bombards me with short runs, nor penalizes me for turning something down. I also look at it this way... if we turn down that 200 mile run as a team, the solo that just finished his 200 miler in the same area as us can now take another run. I'd say that's taking one for the team.


-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[grog111]

Don't get me wrong Leo, i do agree with you. Having both driven solo and as a team op. i find i know well the frustration and disapointment as a team hoping for that long one, but, as you say, a team...well...that's practically a 24 hour operation. I mean, you're ready to go, day or night pretty much 7 day's per week, H.O.S. not withstanding. But as a solo...sheesh...let me put it this way, yesterday, as a solo operation mind you, i did 250 miles from detroit to toronto, sat for 4 hrs waiting for a backhaul that never came, then dead headed home. The end. Out of hours. Then today...up at 0700....sat all day, then as i start dinner at 1900, i get the call....pick up at 2100, detroit to chicago. RAT'S! It delivers at 0700. So i get maybe a 4 hour break on the way out, which does'nt do much of anything to satisfy my sleep requirements or H.O.S. i meet the 2 hour break requirement but bump up against the 14 hour clock after,(hopefully), the delivery. I go down for at least 8 more, now it's 1700, my internal sleep clock is all whacked out of adjustment and after paying for fuel and tolls and whatever else.....it's the end of the day wednesday and i've cleared about $350 bucks. A team on the other hand "may" have gotten a Toronto to Seattle. Or a Detroit to Laredo. Or a Chicago to L.A. The short runs would not hurt them either positionally or H.O.S. wise, but it shot my week right in the behind!

 

[LDB]

I'm not saying I want $12 hr all the time, I'm saying it's better than nothing. I don't know about the next load. The only thing I do know is turning down the current offer guarantees the $0 per hr continues longer. A bird in the hand as they say.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[tmbm]

Leo,
I agree with what you say "in theory". The reality is, there are more things to consider in taking a run than simply the miles. We have taken short runs (one was only 43 ldd, 25 mt) and we have turned them down. We have also taken loads that didn't pay what we feel is an acceptable pay per mile due to various circumstances, taking one for the team. Even if the PPM is acceptable, there are other considerations. As you know, we all take into consideration time of day, current location vs. delivery location, other costs such as tolls. As a team we also have to consider sleep management; do I have to wake my co-driver and interrupt their sleep to cross the border, to watch a safety video, enter a military facility, or just the start and stop of the truck and the bouncing of fork lifts entering and exiting.
If I start my driving at 0100 (co-driver lays down to sleep at 0130), I get to delivery at 0600, I'm empty and ready at 0730, co-driver was woke up by the forklift. Then I accept a hazmat load that picks up close by at 0900 going 150 miles, get there at 0845, it's an inside pick up, I wake co-driver to assist in loading, we get out of there at 1000, we get to delivery at 1230 wake co-driver to watch safety video, we're out of there at 1330, I drive 100 miles to get into freight area, it's now 1500. I am out of hours, my co-driver has had about 4-5 hrs quality sleep, we get an offer at 1600 to pick up at 1730 going 600 miles straight through, is my co-driver rested well enough to run this run. Consider, co-driver has in effect been awake since 0630-0700 and I can't drive before 0115 and with straight through, delivery time is probably 0730.
Another issue to keep in mind is we are splitting the money. How much do we really profit each to make $350 for the day because we take a 200 mile run that delivers next morning? Or even the same run that delivers straight through but picks up at 1500, because now we have probably either missed all the loads for the day, or are too far from freight to get a 2nd run.
One time were offered a 250 mile run at 0900 on day 1 that picked up at 1200 on day 2 and delivered at 0800 on day 3 while sitting in the Chicago area (I had laugh on that one); we have had these type offers a few times. BTW it only paid $330. I always wonder if anyone (team or solo) takes that kind of run, pour utilization of any vehicle, but especially for a team.