Sprinter / Chev Cost Comparison

[terryandrene]

There has been lots of discussion on this site concerning the desirabilty of a Sprinter over the traditional cargo vans offered by Ford, GMC and Chevrolet. The pro and con of each type is leaning more toward the ability of the Sprinter to redefine the definition of van freight due to its larger cargo space and greater load capacity, neither of which is necesssary to carry the traditionally defined van (B) load. The Sprinter space is, however, very beneficial to providing great personal space for solo or team drivers. This personal space is recognized by every expediter interested in maximizing earning potential; to do so requires staying on the road for a week or more, and 'camping out' in the van to maximize profit. Some folks will argue the best way to maximize van profit is to carry occasional 'C' loads, with or without monetary compensation. My opinion is that this is short sighted thinking for reasons mentioned elsewhere. We'll all have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Now for the real purpose of this post. A cost comparison. The Sprinter was introduced to the USofA in March of 2001 so, to date, no one has reached the full life expectancy of the Sprinter. I put our 2000 Chevrolet 3500,with 350 gas engine into service in January of 2001 and the cost of our fully equiped van was $23,491. I added approximately $3000 worth of hightop and built ins for a total of $26,500. (taxes not included). As I recall, a Sprinter asking price that year was $34,000. The price has come down to about $32,000 but I don't know what anyone actually paid in 2001.

Here are my particulars: 1 Jan 2001 thru 31 Dec 2004

miles driven : 374,751
Corrective and preventive repair costs : $10,992.65
Repair cost per mile : $.0293
At 15 Miles per Gallon : 24,983 gal consumed ($45,219 at todays national gasoline average cost of $1.81 gal.

I'm told by many Sprinter owners that they get 22 mpg overall. If that number is average, A Sprinter driving the same miles as my Chevy would have consumed 17,034 gallons. ($33,216 at todays national diesel average cost of $1.95)

The Sprinter has a four year fuel cost advantage of $12,003. More than enough to offset the $7,500 purchase cost difference.

What we now need is for one or more Sprinter owners to step forward with their ACTUAL REPAIR COST per mile for a comparable period so that we may interpolate a four year cost for a true comparison with a Chevrolet.

 

[Tom Robertson]

Terry....

I have two Sprinters but only one in expedited service... the other is used by my wife for dog shows.

Freightliner high roof 2500
orig cost approx 32K + about 8K on both coversions (long story)

That places the total cost of this vehicle about $40,000
the vehicle was placed in Service January 27th 2004

mileage 126,000 averaging (over ) but we will use 22mpg
repairs... this is where the comparison is not fair... the vehicle has only $489.00 in repair costs and about $650.00 in maintenance costs. Lets for arguments sake say the repair bills are equal...

The conversions costs are for top quality... including hardwood floors tv/mw/ref etc...

if we are going to use a cost of 1.95 per gallon on one vehicle... we need to do the same for both...so the real difference comes down to fuel cost savings

I'll use your figures 24,983 gal at 1.95 = 45219
17,034 gal at 1.95 = 33216

savings on fuel alone for the mileage on your van = $12,003

additionally the van does haul at higher rates about 40% of the time

the additional revenue to my company is 25 cents per mile

lets halve that figure and assume a system wide avg of 30% deadhead//
(not my average either)
total paid miles on 374,751 = 263,325
20% at 12 ft rate using only .15 per mie ...52,665 miles at an additional .15 = $7899.75 in additional revenue

if all other cost equaled you would have the following...

you gas van 26500+fuel 45219.00 =$71719.00
Sprinter 40000 = fuel 33216.00 =$73216.00


I know you are saying but what if the repairs are alot more... and I will say... what if the repairs are a lot less???) I hope someone with a lot more mileage comes to the thread...but this is also worth considering... the problems with the first Sprinters... egr valves and other items have not yet shown on this vehicle... perhaps they got it right??? (knock on chrome)

Additionally consider the fact that you can stand up and actually have a 14' apartment with the Sprinter...and the price includes a really professionsl conversion. A no brainer for me... much easier to attract a couple into the Sprinter!


EDITED***I think I took out most of the conflicting information....

did I just say something about "no brain"???

 

[gojack]

2003 sprinter 140" wb 198,000 miles
(I have cut my miles a lot in the past 6 months)
I do not keep good records
I run local delivery stop and start city traffic 23 mpg
I carry 2,000-4,500 pounds (steel, ink, paper etc.,)
a couple loads 5000+
All work by dealers
All Synthetic Oil/all dealer recommended service
estimating everything, and rounding up.

* I do not idle at ALL any more,
no more EGR problems (knock on wood)
**Going to non-synthetic oil would cut oil change by $ 25 ea
***Maintaince prices are comming down
1st brake job, at Fyda $1000
4th at Dodge $350
Struts/joints are my fault, took some too heavy loads,
but pay was too good. I rent a box truck now for those runs.


EGR $ 500
4 brake jobs $ 2000
tires $ 850
front joints $ 1000
oil changes 20ea@ $120ea $ 2400
2x transmission services $ 500
Misc.,
fuel filters cab air filter etc $ 1000
shocks struts $ 600

Sprinter Maintaince $ 8850

.0447/mile

do you do your own service?

 

[terryandrene]

Tom: You've thrown a wrench into the works. The purpose of my exercise was to compare my chevrolet operating cost with a typical Sprinter.

I have a gasoline engine and my fuel cost assumed all fuel was bought at todays national average gasoline cost of $1.81 for a total of $45,219, not the $48,716 you inserted into the comparison.

I perhaps should have suggested that any realistic comparison should leave out the revenue potential with any given company because that has no affect on operating cost.

We all have intangible reasons for selecting one brand over another and I intentionaly left out my preference. After we get some operating cost data then perhaps we can factor in the costs of the intangibles so that the potential van buyers have some ammo upon which to make a brand decision.

Terry

 

[Tom Robertson]

Terry....

duh... I messed that one up big time...

sorry... look like the next poster is not having quite the same performance... but then again city driving will wear out some breaks!

the real "repair" we have was an seal on the oil pan...

Fyda not only overcharges... as you can see by the post from gojack...

but they have no idea how to work on the Sprinter... Dodge dealers doing a much better job... even the oil changes and filters are less... average oil change is about $55.00 at 15k mile intervals

sorry Terry...I never have known which end of a wrench to hold...

gojack... we do no in house maintenence

 

[terryandrene]

GoJack: Thanx for the data. I hope the OTR Sprinter costs come up better than your local repair costs of $.0447/mile. I do not do my own maintenance other than lamp changes.

I would also invite other van owners (Chev, GMC, Ford) to bring in their cost averages. For a realistic comparison use today's national average fuel prices. $1.95 diesel; $1.81 gasoline.

 

[Fkatz]

I know two guys one in Philadelphia and another from around Marysville OH, that bought a Sprinters, the first year it was out, and first of all, you could not buy E rated 16" tires period.
and both of their vehicle was in the shop more than it was on the road.
I do not know what was wrong but it was always one item after another. some major. both went back to either Ford or Chevy.

There is a major problem with the Sprinter as far as load capacity is and that is if you read the book. for 4,000 lb load you must have the dualies on the rear. and the problem with that is a 48" skid will not fit between the wheel wells. The 1500 is only for 2500-3000 Max load. not 4,000. plus they'll skid on snow a lot easier when empty then loaded. due to the height and slightly narrower width
that is what I heard. I am only repeating it.

 

[gojack]

Please pardon my soap box.

FIRST:

Historical repair costs for Sprinter are not of any meaning,
My first brake job, the brake rotors had to be over-nighted in
from New Jersey to Fyda-Cincinnati because parts were hard
to find/get and they were expensive as well.

That has changed:

If I were to get a new Sprinter today, and do the same maintenance /repairs done, the cost would be 50-60% of a 1-2 years ago.

Fyda was about $200 routine service/oil change, Dodge today about $85.

Parts are now available, service has gotten competitive.

SECOND:

Fuel costs; picking today as an example of diesel vs. gas prices is also meaningless,
Gas demand is low(winter), Diesel fuel demand is high (heating oil)
you need to look at the average fuel costs over the time in question.
When I got my Sprinter diesel was a little cheaper than gas,
when gas prices sky-rocketed, diesel went up but not as fast or far
diesel continued to rise lately, while gas has been dropping.

See: http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...troleum_status_report/current/pdf/table17.pdf

You can see that Historically diesel is a little cheaper than gas,
the prices are somewhat independent of each other
but over time diesel is 5-10% cheaper.
diesel requires less refining, and is cheaper to produce.

SO:

If purchasing a 2005 Sprinter and a running for 2.5 years/200,000 miles
I would estimate future repair cost per mile at >.023 mile.
If I were running highway not city and lighter loads
I would guess-timate .020 per mile?

Fuel = 22mpg Sprinter =9,090 gallons @ $1.90 gal = $17,271=.086
Fuel = 15 mpg Chevy = 13,333 gallons @ $2.00 gal = $26,666 =.130

Maintenance Sprinter .020/mile $ 4,000
Maintenance Chevy .029/mile $ 5,800

Chevy $26,500 @6%/60 month=$512/month = .08/mile = $ 16,000
Sprinter $32,000 @6%/60 month=$619/month = .09/mile $ 18,000

Total Chevy $ 48,466 or .24/mile
Total Sprinter $ 39,271 or .20/mile

***I did not include the price of a generator and a RV style roof mount AC/heat unit for the Sprinter which I would get if I were going to sleep in a Sprinter year round. Idling a Sprinter is a VERY expensive proposition, the EGR valve clogs quickly.***

LASTLY

The bean counters at UPS are not dumb, they have 750+ Sprinters in Europe, and they are buying them in quanity here 2200+, They can buy Chevy, Ford, Dodge or whatever they want. When UPS can save 4 cents a mile it is BIG.

UPS Quote's "DaimlerChrysler's Sprinter vans are a solid addition to UPS's delivery fleet in the U.S.," added Ron Kirby, corporate automotive manager for UPS. "We've used 750 Sprinter vans with great success in our Western Europe fleet for more than seven years. They work well on our longer routes because of their fuel economy, plus the longer periods between maintenance translate directly into lower operational costs for those routes. " "Sprinter's unique attributes are a good fit for UPS and were particularly appealing to the company's carriers, especially those who operated high mileage routes. In addition to driver comfort and reduced overall emissions, the vehicle's fuel efficiency, easy handling and safety feature were key Sprinter attributes that appealed to UPS." "In addition to favorable reviews on maneuverability, handling, and overall driving performance, they were especially pleased with the extended maintenance intervals and exceptional fuel performance."

SEE:
http://www.pressroom.ups.com/pressreleases/archives/archive/0,1363,4222,00.html

Dave C

Now I am putting the soap box back in the closet.

 

[dieseldoctor]

Will put my figures from last year into this dicussion. These are actual figures from my excel program on my laptop.This shows all miles ran not just paid miles. So far all I have seen on this dicussion is guesstimations and assuptions. I'm like Terry. I want to see some actual real time figures from someone's records with a diesel. Now one thing I do is include anything I add to the van into my truck expense. I am depreciating the van over three yrs so I took the cost of the van and divided by 36 and that figure is in my truck expense every month. In fact I bought a new floor jack, jack stands, and an impact wrench for rotating tires and they are in my truck expense because I can depreciate them(Ok so I'm trying to save taxes). The TurboMax fan and other things that became a part of the van are included in truck expense. All the materials to build the bed and shelving are in my April truck expense and as you can see since I was outfitting the van we didn't run many miles so this ran the cost per mile higher than actual. Also in July is when I installed the air compressor, air bag suspension,height control valves, air tank,and quick couplings for pluging in air hose to pump up tires etc. We also didn't run many miles that month as you can see. As far as repairs(I consider oil and filter changes scheduled maintenance) I haven't spent a penny on this van yet. Just oil and filter changes ever 200 engine hours (between 7500 and 10000 miles).I have worked on and sold diesels for many years but I just cannot justify going to a diesel with the service I am getting with my gas burners. I just did another cost anaylisis using the latest cost per gallon for gas and diesel and I would have to run 367,045 miles to recover the extra purchase price of the diesel and that is just figuring fuel cost not extra cost of oil changes, fuel supplements, etc. Also note the cost per mile for my 2001 van with 377,00 miles on it.(Jan through March)
I'm not sure if this file will attach right. Dieseldoctor
that didn't work let me try again.

Operation Expense
2004 Miles Miles / Gallons Gas Truck Other Truck Cost
Driven Gallon of Gas Expense Expenses Expense Per Mile
January 1 12,954 14.7 884 $1,369.64 $250.05 $1,726.41 0.125
February 2 16,531 15.6 1,061 $1,681.32 $525.70 $1,023.83 0.134
March 3 12,980 15.6 834 $1,370.58 $293.41 $1,405.04 0.128
1st Qtr 42,465 15.3 2,779 $4,421.54 $1,069.16 $4,155.28 0.129
April 4 7,536 14.6 515 $891.11 $943.18 $679.32 0.243
May 5 10,525 14.0 752 $1,423.30 $1,720.89 $1,058.46 0.299
June 6 16,632 14.3 1,164 $2,194.45 $1,322.87 $901.04 0.211
2nd Qtr 34,693 14.3 2,430 $4,508.86 $3,986.94 $2,638.82 0.245
July 7 6,126 13.3 461 $814.29 $2,111.44 $533.32 0.478
August 8 15,030 13.9 1,085 $1,936.15 $1,551.98 $959.86 0.232
September 9 15,433 14.0 1,105 $1,979.98 $1,215.22 $735.23 0.207
3rd Qtr 36,589 13.8 2,651 $4,730.42 $4,878.64 $2,228.41 0.263
October 10 14,397 14.2 1,017 $1,966.69 $1,645.71 $1,222.59 0.251
November 11 12,667 14.0 905 $1,706.16 $1,296.59 $902.57 0.237
December 12 11,966 13.5 885 $1,549.03 $1,234.93 $813.80 0.233
4th Qtr 39,030 13.9 2,807 $5,221.88 $4,177.23 $2,938.96 0.241
Total 152,777 14.3 10,667 $18,882.70 $14,111.97 $11,961.47 0.216

Sorry guys couldn't get it to load with the columns right. Maybe you can figure out where the columns are.

 

[terryandrene]

GoJack:

I appreciate you research into fuel costs and was interested in the graph of gas diesel comparison. I was surprised at the duration of higher gas over diesel for the timeframe of the graph. My actual gasoline average price was $1.573 for the previous four calendar years and $1.891 for 2004.

I believe you're correct in questioning my use of yesterday's fuel prices. I did so because so many van operators do not keep accurate records of this info. (I have asked dozens and never had even one van operator give me anything but a guesstimate of actual per mile op costs.) And, as DieselDoctor pointed out, these forums have not provided anything but approximations and guesstimations of van operation costs. I'm merely trying to gather some real time data so we can compare the costs of the two vehicle types, Sprinter vs Cargo van and perhaps help someone make a choice if operating costs are the determining factor in their van purchase. I don't endorse either.

The UPS news release was interesting but meaningless to the purpose of my comparison. UPS and FedEx have bought thousands of Sprinters, not because they are better than a Chevrolet or Ford but because they have, among other things, better fuel economy and better repairability than their previously used vehicles. I believe International step vans. They also have their own repair and parts facilities that likely can not be compared with a dodge or freightliner dealer.

Terry

 

[btbenn1039]

While I don't know "Jack" about the Industry, It's something I will seriously consider in my next life after Public Transit. I find this Debate very informative for which I say Thanks !! For my Money I'll stick with Mr. O'Connell's setup, the Sprinter still needs a few more years to work the Bugs out. Gentlemen/Ladies, Just my Thoughts








Until Next Time/Take Care Out There/Take Pride In Your Ride

 

[dieseldoctor]

Terry,
I really appreciate what you are trying to do with this thread and I had a little time this morning so I did a little breaking down of my expenses for last year to try to give a more accurate picture of my cost. I also printed out sections of my Excell spread sheet (sorry but I didn't include any income information)and then scanned them back in as a JPEG and hope this lets you see them. Sorry if it takes awhile to load but was afraid if I compressed it you wouldn't be able to read it.I subtracted addon's, truck insurance, and truck payments and showed cost per mile each way. I guess to compare cost accurately there needs to be an agreement on what should be included in truck expense. Anyway this should give everyone some figures to compare their cost to. I would really like to see some real figures from some of you guys. One thing I noticed is my cost per gallon average for 2004 is a little less than yours and mine is the pump price paid.Since I live down south I buy a lot of fuel down here and it is normally cheaper down here than in the midwest. I use a Shell credit card as much as possible and Shell returns me a 5% rebate on all fuel purchased. If I can't find a Shell station I next look for BP. They give a 3% rebate. My rebates average about $70.00 per month.These rebates are not figured into my spreadsheet.
Dieseldoctor

Can't get JPEG to load for some reason so will type info in.

2004
Miles--- Miles per-- Gallons-- Gas---- Truck---- Other-
Driven--- Gallon--- of gas-- expense-- expense-- expense--
152777--- 14.3--- 10667-- 18882.70-- 14111.97-- 11961.47--

Cost per mile--- gallons/hour---- Cost/gallon
.216------------- 3.8 ----- 1.770

14,111.97-total truck expense
-2973.66-addon's-bed, air ride,aux batteries etc
---------
11,138.31-truck expense minus addon's
18,882.70-fuel cost
---------
30,021.01 divided by 152,777 =.1965 =cost per mile minus addon's

11,138.31-truck expense minus addon's
-2735.20-bobtail insurance
---------
8403.11 truck expense minus addon's and insurance
18,882.70 fuel cost
------------
27,285.81 divided by 152,777 =.1785 cost per mile without addon's and
insurance

8403.11-truck expense minus addon's and insurance
7768.32-truck cost depreciated in 2004(971.04 per month for 8 mths)
---------
634.79-cost of maintenance of new van for 9 months and old van
18,882.70-fuel cost-------------------- for 3 months
---------
19,517.49 divided by 152,777 = .12775 cost per mile without addon's,
insurance and truck payments


18882.70 divided by 152,777 = .12359 fuel cost per mile


634.79 divided by 152,777 = .004155 maintenance cost per mile





____

 

[terryandrene]

DD: Thanx, you've got some good numbers there. I think we're better off just comparing fuel and maintenance as the true operating cost.

All the other items vary with the source. i.e. run revenue, insurance. fuel should be pump price because not everyone uses the same payment method.

The purchase price I provided for my van was only the items fixed to the van and not likely to be removed upon disposal. i.e. I included my bedframe but not the mattress in the purchase price of the van.

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, the cost of operating my business was $.44 permile traveled during 2004. For the purists out there, I DID NOT adjust the purchase price, of the van, for inflation. Operating the business should not be confused with operating the van. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible.

 

[gojack]

With fuel prices on the rise
And the risk now seems to be
much higher fuel costs

I am curious if anyone has done a
Sprinter / Chev Cost Comparison
at $2.50 and $3.00 / Gal?

 

[LDB]

I was running numbers on vans just a couple of nights ago. I used edmunds.com as my purchase price source. I looked at Chev, Ford, and Sprinter and equipped them very generously as I would want them if I were driving them. The Ford and Chev, both with gasoline engines, came out to about $26,500 true market value per edmunds. The Sprinter came to about $36,500 TMV. The sticker prices were higher but those numbers are what edmunds says you should be able to buy the vehicle for.

I played with numbers using 15mpg for gasoline and 22mpg for diesel. I used $2.10, $2.50 and $3.00 per gallon cost for both. At 15mpg the gasoline costs .314cpm, .341cpm and .374cpm to operate at the 3 fuel prices. At 22mpg the diesel costs .269cpm, .288cpm and .310cpm to operate. Those numbers include $650 monthly payment on the van, $3000 annual insurance and license tag, $1500 annual maint/repair fund, $600 annual tire fund, $1080 work comp, and assorted other expenses. The annual miles driven for computations was 96000.

I found it interesting that the diesel at 22mpg and $3 fuel is cheaper to operate than the gasoline at 15mpg and $2.10 fuel. Diesel has to go to $3.09 a gallon for the cost to equal gasoline at $2.10, based on 96k miles and 15/22mpg.

I didn't run a purchase cost analysis of the Ford diesel van. It would be around $31,500 nicely equipped. There isn't too much savings over the Sprinter and the Sprinter 3500 with wheel wells modified can carry far more payload. As someone previously mentioned, there are times one can make significantly more revenue per mile with the added capacity of the Sprinter. All purchase prices mentioned are after whatever rebates are currently in effect so any of the 3 vans could change by up to $1500 if/when they take away the rebates.

As the annual miles driven goes down the cpm goes significantly higher. At 72k annual miles the 15mpg gasoline runs .372, .399 and .432cpm respectively. Diesel numbers for 72k annual are .327, .345 and .368 respectively. I guess we just have to count on major fsc increases as well.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[davekc]

Diesel has to go to $3.07 a gallon for the cost to equal gasoline at $2.10, based on 96k miles and 15/22mpg.

Sure makes a tough call on choice. $3.07 for diesel seems much closer these days. Gas in the western states is at that now in some locations.
Davekc
owner
20 years

 

[LDB]

Apology time. I initially put in cpm figures that were too high. I used a backup copy of my spreadsheet rather than dinking with mine and forgot it had some driver pay components. I have corrected the cpm figures as of 16:30 central time. I apologize for any confusion it may have caused.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[LDB]

>Diesel has to go to $3.07 a gallon for the cost to equal
>gasoline at $2.10, based on 96k miles and 15/22mpg.
>
>Sure makes a tough call on choice. $3.07 for diesel seems
>much closer these days. Gas in the western states is at that
>now in some locations.
>Davekc
>owner
>20 years

To me at least it makes it easier. The higher fuel prices go the greater the savings with diesel. At 2.10/15 and 2.10/22 the diesel saves .045cpm while at 3.00/15 and 3.00/22 it saves .064cpm. Over 96k miles that is $4320 at $2.10 and $6144 at $3.00. And that's just in one year... sheesh! Makes it seem like there's no choice but to go diesel, at least to me. Potentially that's around $25,000 less in fuel costs over the life of the van.

I don't know about maintenance costs although I suspect they're similar. One thing that could be nice is the 10-12k oil change interval in the Sprinter vs. the 3-4k in the gasoline. That's 2/3 less time off the road for oil changes and 2/3 more time in service and at least potentially making money. Anyway, enough of my ramblings for this particular post.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[highway star]

LDB,you mention a modification of the Sprinter wheels. I hav'nt yet heard this could be done. I have heard of people building the floor up a few inches. Could you elaborate?

 

[LDB]

There is a company in Pennsylvania but I don't remember their name. They modify the wheelwells on the 3500 to allow a skid to go between them. As I understand it the clearance is very close and they can resculpt the wells to still clear the tires with room to spare and also allow skids in. If I ever go to a Sprinter I'll go 3500 with that done probably although putting a false floor at wheelwell height would give lots of storage room underneath but then you'd lose standup room. If I remember their name or find it again I'll post it but it would probably turn up with a search for Sprinter and Pennsylvania too.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.