Some may need to Watch Themselves in Arizona

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
As I said in the amnesty thread time for a national ID system. If this idea from Arizona catches on in other states then being asked for ID will happen every time a cop or whatever talks to you. At least you'll know that they are being serious about keeping America for Americans (keep that in mind each time you're asked for ID).
Rob
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We wouldn't be in this position if it weren't for the **** amnesty politicians who not only threw out the welcome mat but practically drag them over in droves.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Sure we want immgration laws enforced and i am a big fan of Sheriff Joe out in Arizona...We all know that a white middle aged male coming up from laredo on 35 isn't going to be asked for his ID (are you a US Citizen and what are you doing, is all i have ever been asked) but others will be questioned more...when it becomes clear that something is not right, yea a request for more info is needed, but not in all instances. From the article, the LEO's should hve been able to make a good judgement using the technology they have available without arresting the guy and making him product a BC....barry would be up a creek with no paddle......:rolleyes:

So where is the line??

The national ID is a totally different case, if you trust your government, i guess you'd be ok with that........

Leo wrote:

We wouldn't be in this position if it weren't for the **** amnesty politicians who not only threw out the welcome mat but practically drag them over in droves.

I liked RR, but he screwed up big time when he issued that blanket ammesty......
 
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FIS53

Veteran Expediter
I think we all can agree that racial profiling will be a part of this ability to ask citizenship. While Latinos will be questioned more I can see this going way beyond that point to other immigrants being questioned more. This is where a national ID carding system where even visitors, landed immigrants everyone gets an ID card on entry to the US. No card then arrested and possible removal. I know the line ups at the border are bad enough now adding another thing will make it worse, but regular visitors get one card and this would allow faster processing (similar to fast etc). Just think if the card has a swipe strip you know when, where they entered the country. Just swipe at entry point and one official can cover a lot more people per day.
Rob
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Well if you weren't like "ALF" and an "Alien Life Form"...........:D

Those born here haven't been forced to go to that route....yet....:rolleyes:

And besides, you "CHOOSE" to have that done with your desire to be a US citizen.....in that case, while i still don't agree with it, its how the system works....i figure if you jump through the hoops and pass their checks and balances and they feel you are worthy, then you shouldn't have to be subject to anything more then what a natural born citizen does after you pass through their system....a green caard should never be issued, just the normal everyday ID...
 
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chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
"Foreign National"!?!? And here i thought that was a entry from a Saudi Prince into the "Kentucky Derby"..........:D
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
So?

Who really cares.

I mean if he wants to cry about it, let him but in the next few months we will be reading all kinds of cr*p from the media on abuse of powers with this law. I think we need profiling, asking for ID, check points and all that are not police state tactics, we already have the serious ones in place and no one seems to mind them.

I would think our allies, the people who have had more than a few buildings hit by planes know more about how to control invaders and how to identify people who want to kill others than we do and they have given advice for years which we ignore. Profiling works, it protects us but because we are a sensitive society that worries about offending the terrorist, we choose to let it all go and let them kill more people.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
& on a side note ...
Israel have being using racial profiling for decades ...
it's simply works ,
they know hoe i am , way before i even get to the Airport.
same go'es to ElAl terminals & corridors here in NA.
problem is , it is only one part of a match larges security system ,& almost worthless by itself .
if you can't trust the officer profiling ,then you will be offended .
i cross them check points weekly , & normally once i show them my blond hair & blue eyes , they flash me by...

last year i arrived to a check point on I-8 ,about 3Am , was the only one there , the guard walk toward my truck half a sleep ,
slowly lift up his head , so i shouted "Allah - hoe - Acbar" with a strong Mediterranean accent .
he woke up real quick ... LoL...
Yh'a , i know , im crazy ...
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
Are we required to carry our birth certificates?:confused:

I always carry a picture of my family, would that suffice?

2858934991_b019d3c233.jpg


Hey, stop what you're thinking! That's profiling.;)
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I think everybody is missing the real issue here. The individual states do not have the authority to make laws regarding immigration. This is the responsibility of the federal government.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note the sentence that " No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridige the privileges . . .

If you do not have to prove citizenship in another state, than Arizonia CAN NOT make one that says you do.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Is there an assumption that anyone, foreign nationals included, are citizens?

Well unfortunately the SC ruled that they are based on a case involving Texas and the schools that they are equal to a citizen regardless if they invaded or not. I think regardless we need to have an amendment changing anchor babies and other issues.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
While immigration is the responsibility of the federal government, what do states do when the government fails to fulfill its Constitutional responsibilities to secure our borders? The inaction of the federal government to secure our borders has actually threatened the sovereignty of the border states. It could actually get to the point where border states have no choice but to secede from the Union in order to protect themselves.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I maybe equal to a citizen in all but one respect....

I can not vote and the obvious..I can not be President...

As of now I don't think that rule applies anymore. Anyone can be president as long as they run as a democrat.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
It could actually get to the point where border states have no choice but to secede from the Union in order to protect themselves.

I am wondering If Arizona has the same treaty as does the Dakotas and Wyoming where they can leave the union under specific circumstances?

Doesn't the state also have the same obligation to uphold the sovereignty of the country, even through force?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I am wondering If Arizona has the same treaty as does the Dakotas and Wyoming where they can leave the union under specific circumstances?
I don't know. They might. Lots of western states have special provisions that had to be in there for them to agree to becomes states.

Doesn't the state also have the same obligation to uphold the sovereignty of the country, even through force?
Not really. We're technically a federation, which means the sovereignty of the state (is supposed be) superior to the sovereignty of the national government. The waters were first muddied when the first federal income tax was put in place, first temporarily during the Civil War, and then permanently with the 16th Amendment, and then things got decidedly murkier when the 17th Amendment took away the state's control (or at least an avenue of partial control) over the federal government via the representation of each state's legislature in the US Senate. Not only did this throw the checks and balances of the federal government by the states out the window, it gave the feds far too much control over the states, since special interests, which had had great difficultly influencing the system when state legislatures controlled the Senate, now can appeal directly to the electorate regardless of what the State Legislatures want.

The states are really under no obligation to enforce federal sovereignty, but the federal government is supposed to enforce state sovereignty. Under Chief Justice William Rehnquist, the Court slowly, but steadily, began cutting back federal powers and protecting state's rights. But some of that has swung back the other way since 911.

However, the Tenth Amendment is what matters most, even though it's only been applied by the Supreme Court twice, so far. It's an Amendment that is under attack, and is being even more strongly defended at the moment, with things like the REAL ID Act, the abuses of the Commerce Clause and mandatory health care, Firearm Freedom Act, where states have passed blatant nullification legislation to protect themselves.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This prevents the federal government from mandating forced participation or commandeering, or from forcing the states to become an instrument of the federal government (to implement or enforce federal laws and programs). Of course, the federal government can hijack federal funds in exchange for cooperation, something knows as cooperative federalism. Case in point is when Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act which made the national drinking age 21. The federal government withheld 10% of the Federal-Aid Highway Act funds from states which did not knuckle under. South Dakota promptly sued Elizabeth Dole personally, which still cracks me up, because she was the Secretary of Transportation, the office which enforces the law. South Dakota argued that the establishment of a minimum drinking age of 21 wasn't sufficiently related to that of Interstate highway construction so as to justify conditioning funds appropriated for that purpose. Two justices agreed, seven of 'em didn't, stating that the conditions were merely "pressure" and not "compulsion."

So States really aren't obligated to enforce or protect federal sovereignty other than to the point where they are protecting themselves.
 
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