So how much does that load pay?

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
People come to EO for many reasons. The newbies usually visit here to learn how busy different carries are in their chosen area and the pay structure(s) available at the different carriers.

As a group, we are not particularly helpful in the pay category because none of us, it seems, wants to share our income or the pay structure at our carrier. If the truth be known, I fall into this group as well. Typically, our membership will share the approximate revenue on a load that paid very well and we will complain about the load offers that were at the bottom feeder rates. When people ask for average mile or average revenue available at a carrier, we will say something like “we average between 1000 and 3500 miles per week and earn between $1000 and $7000. Those types of numbers are not averages they are ranges. An average is a specific number.

When we were with FedEx Custom Critical, our run offer mileage included deadhead miles to the pickup and miles from shipper to consignee. Our total run pay included deadhead money and run revenue. So, a well-paying load for our straight truck might have been $2.00 per revenue mile, but with a deadhead equal to the loaded miles our pay might be only $1.25 a mile. The $1.25 figure is only meaningful if the reader knows what mileage is included.

Now that we are at Landstar Express America, our loads are offered many different ways and we have to figure out what we are looking at. Sometimes the load is offered out at the agent rates, we have to figure out our percent, and other times the load is offered out at the truck pay. The load pay though is only on the loaded miles and often that looks really good till we figure our dead head into the load. So, a $2.00 a mile to the truckload looks pretty good but, we are not usually offered deadhead money. Once again this figure is only meaningful if the reader knows what is included in the offer.

It is easy to see how new people get confused because we all talk differently of how we are paid, some are flat rate, some are percentage, and others are on loaded miles, while others are paid on all miles. When we have been here for a long time we know how other companies pay or when someone posts what pay plan they are on. Over the years I have seen people post very low numbers and also very high numbers without enough details to decide what plan the truck is on or how many miles where involved.

In both instances the dead head makes all of the difference if we are able to accept the load or not.
 

Mailer

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
People come to EO for many reasons. The newbies usually visit here to learn how busy different carries are in their chosen area and the pay structure(s) available at the different carriers......As a group, we are not particularly helpful in the pay category because none of us, it seems, wants to share our income or the pay structure at our carrier.

My thought....

It would solve the problem if accurate figures are shared.

From time to time, there were questions posted about the expediting incomes. New members want to make the career switch and needed the most accurate answer and numbers, so that they can make the correct and informed decisions.

They were told the "figures" from a friend of a friend of a friend, the recruiter, or the other drivers. Or, perhaps they saw the revenue reports posted by members in the EO forum, that this is the weekly gross.

Their brains and eyes lit up. :eek:

However, it's misleading. They may be given the best and highest numbers that may only occurred once or twice of a yearly gross figure. Not too many drivers really want to admit about the part that they sat for 2 weeks and made no money. Most newbies only heard or saw the highest figures and that was good enough. They jumped in.

Thank you! You've posted a great question :)

How much does that load pay? This question will take most businessmind drivers and O/Os to explore below the surface to find the real numbers. unfortunately, most newbies ignored this part by not doing the thorough research.

It would make things a lot easier, I think, if the newbies were simply told, for example in a cargo van, that after all deductions and expenses, the weekly net will be about $200, they will definitely have more accurate information and can now either, decided to go out and buy a brand new Promaster and leave the family behind, or forget about it and stay where they are at.

But no, all they heard or saw was, "Dude, you can make 1-3 grands a week in a cargo van."

I saw and heard that too, but I was skeptical. I decided to do more research. I spent months reading and dissecting the EO threads and posts. That's where I believed I've found the truth. The accurate informations came in bits and peices scattered throughout the forum. I had to analyze and put them together.

I found that you can make "that numbers," but only a handful of drivers and O/Os will achieve that.

So where's did the rest go? Some will still hang on and try to make it. They will add on a few more years and eventually drop out. For the remaining? You can find out by clicking on the search icon on EO the forum page, put in the search words, for example, cargo van, slow freight, etc. Go back as far as 2001, click on the profile on some of the members, check on their last check in status. You will find the answers.

This business certainly is very challenging:rolleyes:
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I am not a numbers guy....I do my thing and if at end of month the bills are paid and $$$ is placed in the right places........and money in my pocket...all is right with the world....

I've been over 15 years now in this business....in a CV then to Sprinter...I've solo'ed and wife teamed.
I've seen carriers big and small disappear into the abyss....

The promises of BIG money.....oh yeah....come drive for us...they say.....which at this point I say BULL.....the illusion of grandeur...we have the miles they say....yep, you can drive yourself to death and die a poor man too....

Money is fluid.....it seems to run from people..LOL

Is there BIG money in this business.....absolutely NOT....can you make a living at this....well that depends alot on what life style you want to live?

At this point in this business....

Can one support a family and this be the single source of income? NO ....IMO

IMO..this business is in slow contraction....better logistical planning, the placement of manufacturing facilties...shippers being more computer savvy then ever and very budget wise....

Be very sure this business is for you and the sacrifices you'll need to make to be successful...
That $1,000 to $3,000 mentioned is a HUGE swing or margin of error over 52 weeks....
 

kg

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Owner/Operator
Expediting is not much different than any other business in terms of how successful one may be at it.

After finding a market for your goods or services success comes after taking advantage of opportunities presented to you. In expediting of course that is the load opportunities.

Having the needed funding,proper equipment,unwavering dedication,and much hard work an owner-operator can for sure make a living expediting.

However the problem with this business is the total inability of the business owner to plan anything more than a day or two in advance. Also at the end of your workday you are not returning home to your family and the responsibilities and pleasures that you have there.

So whether the industry is in decline or booming IMO the successful expediter is the one that enters into this business at the right time in their lives. Same household teams, retired, semi retired, or individuals with no family commitments seem to find an easier go with this expediting gig. Having another source of income also lessens the financial ups and downs of any business.

Stay safe
KG
 

Mailer

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
After finding a market for your goods or services success comes after taking advantage of opportunities presented to you. In expediting of course that is the load opportunities.

Having the needed funding,proper equipment,unwavering dedication,and much hard work an owner-operator can for sure make a living expediting.

Stay safe
KG

You've said it :) The major prerequisites for a successful expediting.
 

redskunk

Expert Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Army
Just curious, is this s rhetorical question are you asking for actual numbers?
Thanks
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
The post was in response to others sharing low offers they are receiving or even others posting huge offers they have received. Normally all we see is the low numbers posted. It can be confusing to someone reading when they see posters talking about loads getting offered to them at less then a dollar.

Is that dollar for all miles or only loaded miles? If it is for all miles how much dead head was involved? If I was to post our numbers they would most often be the opposite since now we only see loaded miles with an offer. Often our load offers look fantastic till we add our dead head in and then sometimes they are less then a dollar a mile.

Dead head can make a fantastic load look like one of the worst offers you have received all year.

600 loaded miles we see the offer at $1200.00 or $2.00 a mile. This looks like a decent load but

600 mile load has 300 miles dead head on the load now the $1200 had to be divided by 900 miles for a pay of $1200.00 or $1.33 all miles. Is that load as good as it was at first glance?

We cannot know if a load is good or bad unless we know dead head miles that are included.

Another problem is waiting for that perfect load. When the decision is made we have to have $2.00 a mile before we accept a load and we wait three days for a load we are losing money. Day pay has to be in the equation as our fixed expenses continue on as we sit and wait for that perfect load.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If someone wants to know how much money you make give them your gross income for the previous year along with total miles, total fuel expenses, maintenance costs etc. Also number of days in service and number of days waiting for a load. Let them do the math. This should dampen the enthusiasm of many wanabee expediters.

I started in this business in 1997 and for the first 5 or 6 years I made more money, got paid higher rates, drove fewer miles and paid much less for fuel, food etc than today. I'm living proof that any idiot could make money in a van in the 90s.
 

vandriver2

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Just yesterday I spent a good 20 mins while filling up, trying to discourage a semi driver who wanted to switch to a sprinter.
Yep, I get the approaches and questions a few times a year from Truckers. Once I begin describing the differences, sacrifices, the pluses/minuses, the difference in Preplanned loads to not knowing when or where, need a ton of patience and smarts to know when to pull from your own pocket to move....takes about ten minutes and they shake their head "nope, not for me". It's usually because they've become accustomed to Trucking, it's lifestyle and steady loads. If they'd never driven Truck and didn't know the difference they'd be fine. But they see how we can drive and park pretty much anywhere a car does and that appeals to them. The Money difference kills it for them. Hey, it's a Choice, they're two different animals.
 

tknight

Veteran Expediter
Well I went back home from where I park the truck after 14 bids and not a bite I'm giving in today
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
As I said in another post, I look at the whole picture rather than part of it. Again, it isn't what you make it is what you are keeping. The other item to look at is some are saying the companies are struggling. Maybe. Some of the smaller ones I have no clue. The larger ones I do. They are not hurting. A complete revenue picture is provided by most investment sources so you can get a pretty clear picture of what is going on. Revenue is down on some but if a company went from 50 million down to 40M in profit, it is hardly a crisis. Most large carriers are currently not running at a loss based on the latest financials.
 

wimpy007

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
US Army
I can't remember the last time I wasn;t ask at a truck stop by a semi driver if we make any money driving a van. And you have honest and say no. When I started with Roberts in 1996, I would say yes, but no more.
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I can't remember the last time I wasn;t ask at a truck stop by a semi driver if we make any money driving a van. And you have honest and say no. When I started with Roberts in 1996, I would say yes, but no more.

We were at Roberts for many years and what you see now is a much different world. When I see current recruiting ads I can only laugh. Just no comparison to yesteryear.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
In both instances the dead head makes all of the difference if we are able to accept the load or not.

It is not true that "dead head makes all the difference."

When considering a single load, deadhead is one factor among many. What area does the load take you to? What effect, if any, does the load weight have on your fuel economy? What about timing, does the load deliver immediately or will you sit on it for a day or two or three, thereby keeping yourself off other loads you might otherwise get? What impact will this load have on your sleep schedule and your ability to roll on an additional load soon after? How much will fuel cost to refill where you deliver? What tolls, if any apply to this run? How many other trucks will be waiting for freight where you deliver? What accessorial revenue, if any, applies to this load?

While expediters generally accept loads one load at at time, it is also important to see the bigger picture. When you look at your business a month or year at a time, additional deadhead miles become part of the story. How much money and time do you spend deadheading home, to recreational events, to relative's homes, to truck shows, to motor carrier meetings, to your favorite truck repair facility, and other such places?

One day, a high-deadhead, low-paying load may be an answer to prayer because it takes you where you want to go when you want to go there. On another day, that very-same load may be rejected as a loser because other factors apply.

TeamCaffee provides a service in highlighting for outsiders the various motor carrier compensation arrangements, but be careful about over-simplification. In any business decision, it is rare that any single item makes "all the difference."

This is true with compensation arrangements, individual load-acceptance decisions and everything else in expediting. Every decision has its pros and cons. It falls to the decision maker to assign weight to each one and make the best decision one can.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I am not a numbers guy....I do my thing and if at end of month the bills are paid and $$$ is placed in the right places........and money in my pocket...all is right with the world....

... That $1,000 to $3,000 mentioned is a HUGE swing or margin of error over 52 weeks....

"... margin of error over 52 weeks?" I think you are more of a numbers guy than you let on.

You may not work spreadsheets like some expediters do but your financial instincts are clearly present and they work to produce your stated result. If that was not true, every expediter who is not a "numbers person" and did one's thing would end up with money in his or her pocket. In fact, those who pay little attention to the numbers and do their own thing are the ones that wash out.

Whether you are working a spreadsheet or not, financial reality applies. Those who do not align with it fail.
 

Opel2010

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Can one support a family and this be the single source of income? NO ....IMO

.
I've been in this business for over two decades now and yes, I can say it can support a family. It takes some sacrifices (being away from your family for long periods of time), but again, it can support a family.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I've been in this business for over two decades now and yes, I can say it can support a family. It takes some sacrifices (being away from your family for long periods of time), but again, it can support a family.
I think it would depend on the lifestyle of said family...can it pay for dance lessons for daughter? soccer or baseball in summer, hockey or bowling sports in winter? Could you build up a decent college fund and retirement fund.....and now add in the healthcare costs....I wonder.....
 
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