Serious Problem

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There is a serious problem with care for our combat soldiers. That problem is improper diagnosis and care for soldiers having problems with PTSD and brain injury.

That problem is particularly bad at the Madigan Medical Center at Ft. Lewis, WA. There were several soldier diagnosed with PTSD and related problems. ONE doctor there was repeatedly reversing rulings by a 3 member panel. That doctor was part of a "forensic psychology" team of 'outside experts' that was brought in to review findings and help cut costs. It seems that at Madigan cost of treatment was more important than treating those affected.

So far around 40 soldiers have been sent to Walter Reed to be reevaluated.

There seems to be a particular problem with PTSD in the "Stryker Brigades".

Time to get this right, Mr. Panetta. This has all occurred on YOUR watch. YOU are the Secretary of Defense. YOU are responsible. SO is your 'boss', the President. It all flows downhill and you two are at the top.

The time has come to do right by those who's lives and health are controlled by you.



[h=1]Army reviewing traumatic stress diagnostic practices[/h]
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Army has started a system-wide review to ensure its mental healthcare facilities are not engaging in the "unacceptable" practice of considering treatment costs in making a diagnosis, Army Secretary John McHugh told a U.S. Senate hearing on Wednesday.


Lieutenant General Patricia Horoho, the Army surgeon general, initiated the review in response to the discovery that hundreds of soldiers being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder had their diagnoses reversed after being seen by psychiatrists at the Madigan Army Medical Center in Washington state.


The medical center is located at Joint Base Lewis McChord, the home base of Staff Sergeant Robert Bales, who is suspected of killing 16 people, including nine children, in a shooting rampage in Afghanistan this month.


Bales was on his fourth deployment to a war zone in the past 10 years. His civilian lawyer told Reuters last week that PTSD would likely be part of the defense.


PTSD is a huge issue for the Defense Department. A recent Armystudy estimated as many as 20 percent of the more than 2 million U.S. troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan could suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. Cost of care could range between $4 billion and $6.2 billion, it said.


The Army is looking at whether doctors at the medical center were influenced by the cost of PTSD diagnosis in terms of pensions and other benefits. One psychiatrist said the cost to taxpayers was $1.5 million over the lifetime of a soldier on medical retirement, the Seattle Times reported.


The review being carried out by the Army inspector general aims to ensure that standardized diagnostic procedures are followed by all psychiatrists "and equally important that fiscal considerations are not in any way a part of the evaluations," McHugh said. "It's simply unacceptable."


Referring to Bales, Representative Bill Pascrell, founder of a U.S. congressional task force on brain injuries, told reporters he wanted to "cradle this soldier in our arms" while condemning his actions until it could be determined what happened to him and whether he was properly tested and treated.


Bales had received a traumatic head injury and lost part of a foot during previous deployments in Iraq. The incident raised questions about the stress of repeated deployments, but McHugh said four was not uncommon.


"We have in the military writ large over 50,000 folks in uniform who have had at least four deployments," McHugh told members of the defense panel of the Senate Appropriations Committee.


'VERY CONCERNING'


Patty Murray, a U.S. senator from Washington state, told McHugh it was "very concerning" that 40 percent of the service members with PTSD who were seen by psychiatrists at Madigan "had their diagnosis changed to something else or overturned entirely."


"What it says is that over four in 10 of our service members - many of whom were already being treated for PTSD - and were due the benefits and care that comes with that diagnosis had it taken away by this unit," she said. "They were then sent back into the force or the local community."


General Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff, said the Army wanted doctors and psychiatrists to have the attitude they were "patient advocates."


"That's the mindset that we're going to work on changing - to make sure that everybody understands that," Odierno said. "We are patient advocates. We are trying to get the best for what is right for our soldiers."


But Murray said senior military leaders had been saying that since the start of the war a decade ago.


"It's really disconcerting after 10 years to find now that that has not been the case," she said.


Murray said it was important to focus on the issue system-wide to make clear that "it isn't the cost of PTSD or any mental health evaluation that is of concern to the Army.

... It is making sure that those men and women get the care."


(Additional reporting by Susan Cornwell; Editing by Peter Cooney)



Army reviewing traumatic stress diagnostic practices - Yahoo! News
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This should come as no surprise that this administration is keeping its pledge to gut the military, and they're doing it in every area possible. From planes to ships to health care, their goal seems to be making the All Volunteer military to be as unattractive to possible new recruits.

GOP Leader: Obama Must Back off Military Cuts - ABC News
 
Last edited:

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This should come as no surprise that this administration is keeping its pledge to gut the military, and they're doing it in every area possible. From planes to ships to health care, their goal seems to be making the All Volunteer military to be as unattractive to possible new recruits as possible.


This is costing lives. They are sending people into combat on psychotropic medications. Many of those drugs are on "the list". That list is a list that states that if a soldier on one or more of the they are 'unfit for combat".

This is beyond Obama's normal swill, this warrants a criminal investigation.

The "Wimp in Chief" never had the 'stones' to serve. He has zero respect for those who do. Now his administration is taking steps to get them killed. He and his minions are disgusting.
 

robh2

Veteran Expediter
Unfortunately this is very true, but I have only seen this with the Army. I have met many of them coming in for reevaluation and looking for someone to help them because the Army has been changing their diagnosis. It is so unreasonable. The Army is also starting to not allow PTSD patients to have service dogs when they clearly need it because it is so bad.

The problem is, the majority of them are Army and almost everyone coming back injured has some form of PTSD. It is costing the Army a lot of money and they are trying to back out of their promise to these fighters to take care of them and their families.

I work with these guys everyday at Walter Reed and overall the military is doing a good job. But so many are slipping through and due to some newer policies, many are at risk of being left behind.

Since I am a non profit and not military, I dont have to "Tow the line" so I can say what I see happening.

Pray for our military.

Robert
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Thank you Robert. Many out there don't believe that this stuff is going on. There have been at least 30 and maybe closer to 40 from Stryker Brigades at Ft. Lewis alone. For some reason Stryker Brigades are having the biggest problem. Maybe because they are on the front lines more than others?
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
We pay to send them out to do battle but don't want to pay to fix them when they come back broken.

Sent from my ADR6400L using EO Forums
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Why would they? There are many tin soldiers in waiting to take their place.

Tin Soldiers? Most are fine young men and women who truly believe that they are joining to serve their country. They are being wasted. The word is getting out. That is one of the reasons that enlistments are dropping and re-enlistments are down as well.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Tin Soldiers? Most are fine young men and women who truly believe that they are joining to serve their country. They are being wasted. The word is getting out. That is one of the reasons that enlistments are dropping and re-enlistments are down as well.
"Tin Soldiers"!? This derogatory term might apply to the untrained "weekend warriors" from the National Guard unit that opened fire on the kids at Kent State back in 1970. But to try to apply it to those that voluntarily enlist for military service under our current circumstances is - to put it kindly - inappropriate. The problem is that some people just don't understand the nature of military service or the people who choose it. They just take for granted that our military will always be there to chase away the bad guys if they should ever show up at our doorstep, and at the same time wholeheartedly believe every overblown or unsubstantiated derogatory accusation that shows up in some unsigned AP wire story.

The irony is that should Barack Hussein Obama get his way in eviscerating our military, the decent and honorable young men and women will stop signing up. Then things come full circle and the draft will become necessary again, but it will apply to members of BOTH sexes this time - and it could very will be that these same armchair critics will see their children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews become TIN SOLDIERS.
 

ts675

Seasoned Expediter
Why would they? There are many tin soldiers in waiting to take their place.

Tin soldiers? Care to explain what u mean by that? Over the last few conflicts we've had more and more national guard and reserve forces have been deployed. Thank god someone is out there defending your rights, even the tin soldiers.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Very few National Guardsmen are full-time soldiers. The rest are civilians playing at being soldiers. I don't know if that's derogatory or not, and in this day and age where everything seems offensive to somebody, it probably is, but it is also, nevertheless, the reality.

But the term has never really been used in derision towards the soldiers, at least not by anyone who understands the term, but in how the government uses them (plays with them) as toys, often irresponsibly.

The Sinclair Lewis novel, Babbitt, from way back in 1922, talks of a labor union march with "tin soldiers" herding the mob away from its intended target. It's an excellent book and I highly recommend it. More famous, probably, is the Neil Young song "Ohio" about the Kent State massacre (recorded by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young) and the lyrics:

"Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio."


"Tin soldiers" clearly reference the National Guard, and Neil Young (and many others) felt it was Nixon's (and Ohio governor James Rhodes', but mostly Nixon's) fault. The government used the Tin Soldiers irresponsibly. Did they ever.

There were many student protests all across the country at that time, leading up to the shootings. Many governors were upset. Just three weeks before the Kent State shootings, California governor Ronald Reagan stated about the student protests, and the desire to end them on a national level, "If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with". Never forget that.

And the American government is once again playing with its cheap, expendable Tin Soldiers, irresponsibly using them to fight invented battles, in foreign lands where they don't belong. It's no wonder, as Paullud notes, "We pay to send them out to do battle but don't want to pay to fix them when they come back broken." Why pay to fix them when they're cheap and easily replaceable? It's disgusting.

You wanna be offended about something? Be offended about that.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The National Guard and Enlisted reserves "play" at being soldiers? Sure are a heck lot of them getting shot up and having their lives ruined to just be 'playing'.

My nephew, the one with the 'bronze star for valor' is in the reserves. Paul, a friend of my nephew, a fine young many who I have hunted with, is all messed up. 60% disability rating. Holes all over him, is now as we speak, back in combat. Bet he does not think that he is "playing" right now. He is in the reserves.

"Tin Soldiers"? Playing? They are REAL men and women who are being killed and maimed.

The boy that commands them is the one who is 'playing'. He is the "tin god".
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
The National Guard and Enlisted reserves "play" at being soldiers? Sure are a heck lot of them getting shot up and having their lives ruined to just be 'playing'.

My nephew, the one with the 'bronze star for valor' is in the reserves. Paul, a friend of my nephew, a fine young many who I have hunted with, is all messed up. 60% disability rating. Holes all over him, is now as we speak, back in combat. Bet he does not think that he is "playing" right now. He is in the reserves.

"Tin Soldiers"? Playing? They are REAL men and women who are being killed and maimed.

The boy that commands them is the one who is 'playing'. He is the "tin god".

The term Tin Soldiers is being used to stir the pot. I guess those Tin Soldiers at Normandy, Omaha Beach, Bataan, Battle of the Buldge were Tin Soldiers too? I think not. Once again, men who never wore the American Uniform have no clue IMHO. PS, least we never forget the B17 flyers over Germany that died, there were over 30,000 thousand Tin Flyers there too. Oh, in one afternoon, the USN killed over 17000 Japanese Sailors in a small sea battle, so there, whoops those were Tin Sailors?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Many of those "Tin Soldiers" stood the line in places many never have even heard of. They were killed and their deaths never reported. They 'walked the wire' on the Czech border. Many died there. They died in Korea, Vietnam, Yugoslavia and Germany. All died long after the end of WWII.

None of those "Tin Soldiers" were 'Spectators". They served.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The National Guard and Enlisted reserves "play" at being soldiers?
Yes, playing. Part-time is part-time, regardless of what it is, whether it's being a solder, being an expediter, or whatever else you can think of. Playing at being a soldier gives it no special status. Just because you're getting killed or maimed while doing doesn't make it a full-time activity, it's still a part-time activity. It's a dangerous one, but it's still a part-time one. If you're serious about it, rather than playing at it, you'll be doing it full-time, and you're likely to be better at it full-time than those who do it part-time. The notion that part-timers are playing at it is not a notion I invented, nor is it a new notion. It's a notion as old as man. The National Guard is civilians playing at being soldiers. Otherwise, they wouldn't be civilians, they'd be soldiers. That's the reality, despite those who want to elevate "anything military" to some special lofty status.

The difference is, full-time, professional soldiers wouldn't have fired at Kent State, but the part-time, weekend warrior, civilians playing at being soldiers... did.

In any event, it's good to see that you managed to fixate on the least important part of what I wrote. Whether the tin soldiers are part-timers playing at being a soldier or not is irrelevant, the fact that the government plays irresponsibly with them as cheap, easily replaceable toys... is.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Turtle, I did NOT start this thread to get into political arguments. I started it to bring attention to a REAL problem being caused by the Obama Administration. A REAL problem that, for the most part, is being ignored by the press and the rest of the "spectators".

If you want to lose an argument on the nature of service in the Guard or Reserves, start another thread please.

Thank you.
 
Top