Repair work on a Sprinter, I need feedback

[benfieldexpress]

Here's the deal. Freightliner is not authorized to work on Sprinters
anymore. I have 140,000 miles on my Sprinter. It's a 2005 I have had since Nov. 2004. I took it to a Dodge dealer in Charlotte, nc
(which I was able to find one, on the opposite side of town,). What my question is: Has anyone out there spent 9000 dollars on a repair job?? I took it in for an oil leak, which turned into a major repair, when the service tech took the head off. He told us that I have injector valves that are gummed up, and it has gotten so bad, the gases inside the head created so much heat, that the caking of the oil has caused a mess. Wiring harness has been effected, hence no tail lights. Anyway, my question is. "Has anyone ever been confronted with situations like this with their Sprinters on repair cost?? Is this a problem that I could expect after another 120,000?
If anyone has had a similar problem, I would love to hear it. Any feed-back I can get would help me deal with the pain of a $9,000 repair bill.

 

[terryandrene]

Sorry to read of your $9K surprise. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Did you perform all of the manufactuer's recommended maintenence on schedule? How long did your oil leak go unattended? Could an earlier repair have mitigated some of the damage or repair expense?

I ask these questions, not to be critical of you personally, but to give EO Sprinter owners a better idea of "the rest of the story".

Terry

 

[talkinghorse43]

A complete overhaul of the engine?

How could injectors cause an engine to overheat?

Thinking of maintenance, maybe too much soot in the oil could cause what you seem to describe? I have an '02 and have only recently fully realized that the level of EGR flow in the Sprinter engine can cause quite a bit of soot to be formed and collected in the oil. Too much soot can cause the oil to turn into a kind of paste. So, oil change interval and oil type can be very important.

From what I can determine, DC now recommends using only Mobil 1 0w40 synthetic oil. Of course, that's a very expensive oil. I say it is now recommended because when I bought mine I was told to use 15w40 dino oil. Apparently, the oil type is even more important if you extend the interval beyond the standard 10k miles (use the ASSYST maintenance computer's recommendations).

What oil maintenance schedule/oil type did you follow/use?

 

[DannyD]

>Sorry to read of your $9K surprise. I wouldn't wish that on
>anyone.
>
>Did you perform all of the manufactuer's recommended
>maintenence on schedule? How long did your oil leak go
>unattended? Could an earlier repair have mitigated some of
>the damage or repair expense?
>
>I ask these questions, not to be critical of you personally,
>but to give EO Sprinter owners a better idea of "the rest of
>the story".


Hiya Terry,

I realize there's two sides to every story. In this case though, I have to kind of figure he's on the up & up (suprise suprise considering my views on this vehicle eh??). Anyways, I work w/ people who's Sprinters are gettin up there in miles & I've heard stories that aren't to much different than what this gentlman is saying.

Ben,

Unfortunately I have heard stories similar to yours. While $9000 is the most expensive repair I've heard/read about yet, I've been told about a $5k repair & a few (meaning 4-6, so no confusion as to how many a "few" is) repairs in the 2-4K range. This is out of I'm guessing 60 Sprinters in our company & some I've run into at gas stations & what have ya. Also, this factors in that I'm not talking to every driver in our company. I work 2nd shift mostly & don't see a lot of these guys very often.

Not one of these vehicles has over 200K miles on it yet. So yea, the long term life of these things is not promising. In fairness to the other side, the dealership mechanic has told me he's seen some Sprinters w/ 400K miles & no major problems yet.

Plus, the cost of maintaining these things isn't cheap. It doesn't help that ya have to get pretty much everything done at the dealership. I'm not sure of your exact situation, but maybe ya could find another shop & see what their rates are.

I wish you the absolute best. Keep us posted on how things turn out.

Be well,
Danny

 

[talkinghorse43]

Re your $9k question, see dieseldoctor's 1st post in the sprinter smoking thread.

 

[targuard86]

I don't remember the cost but I had the same thing happen to one of our sprinters. Again, I don't remember what had to be replaced but the "gum" got as hard as steal and froze up some major internal parts to the point they had to be replaced. Not sure it was 9K but it was over 5K.

 

[bryan]

HI
Extended running below operating temp causes soot.If an injector isn't working then the cyclinder is operating below temp.because there is no fire in that cyclinder.MOst oils that are designed for deisel engines have chemicals that remove the soot.If you used a regular oil meant for gas engines this could of caused your problem.Soot can eat right through most metals and plastic.

Also if you had a major oil leak you didn't have enough oil to cool the engine.With the high temps that these engines run most of them have a oil cooler.Yours is probably plugged or at least partly blocked.I'd have them flush it or you could end up with the same problem.

Also desiel engines are know for another type of deposit.Alkaline in the cooling system.These deposits cause tiny hot spot on the water side of the cyclinder wall which causes air bubbles which bust with such force that they put small holes into the casting. This make the walls thinner and they cannot displace the heat as well.To prevent this from happening you have to add SCA's to the cooling system and test it regularly.It's kind of like having a swimming pool.You test the water with a test strip and add chemicals untill you get the right PH balance.If you don't do this the water in the pool can actually eat the pool liner.The walls on these smaller deisel engines are so thin that this is more of an issue than the big truck engines.

I don't understand the light problem.The wiring isn't even in the engine compartment so they would have to explain that one really good if it was me.I'm no expert and I've never been any further into a Sprinter than to help a guy change a fan blower motor but I just don't get it.

 

[davekc]

I know very little about sprinters but at $9,000 for a repair, I would wonder how far away you are from a new engine?
Hope it all works out as that is certainly a high dollar repair.
Let us know how it goes.





Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[targuard86]

that one I can answer.......15K for a new engine.

 

[davekc]

Yikes. Is that with or without labor?





Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[cargodreaming]

Funny thing is the dealer told my buddy a similar story. He was smelling fumes in the cab so they told him injectors leaked and damaged the header cost $5000. So he took it to a mechanic that worked on MB engines for the past 30 years final cost $1000 thats with a few new injectors and some other non related maintence. This mechanic told him he needs to retorque the enjectors ever so often to make sure the are tight to prevent this. He went back to the dealer and they refunded his money for the parts and still insisted that what they told him was the problem. His van runs good as new now.

 

[talkinghorse43]

Retorquing injectors sounds like it might be a good thing to do, but to what torque?

My service manual installation procedure says to use new tensioning claw screws and torque them to 62 in-lbs followed by 90 degrees more. The final torque on a newly-installed screw will certainly be much higher than the initial measured torque.

Does your buddy know the torque the mechanic recommends?

 

[cargodreaming]

>Does your buddy know the torque the mechanic recommends?


I will find this out and post it.

 

[klippencott]

Bryan,
I'm pretty saavy on gasoline engines but still learning about diesels. Would you please tell me what product to use to "add SCA's to the cooling system"? What are SCA's. Do you use PH paper to check the balance of the cooling system fluid?

I have a Sprinter and this entire thread scares me. Right now I only have 26k on it but it will be running full time starting in March.

I've been using the 0-40 Mobile 1 synthic oil recomended by DC. I do my on service.

WOW I really feel for Ben, a 9K repair bill, that would really make me angry and hungry x(

 

[OntarioVanMan]

My dealer tech here in South Dakota, Rapid City is very informative so far. He works on the Fedex and UPS Sprinters for the major stuff. He had an engine on the floor in a box brand spankin new, price? $10,000.
BUT!!! It comes with about 4,000 dollars worth of wear parts. Turbo, fuel injectors, fuel filter Water pump, EGR, pullys, Manifolds intake the works and all the electrical clips are new. It saves alot of labor charge. As this motor is ready to go.
Also on the plus side YOU can take the old motor home and strip off the old parts as spares for another saving.
Ohh yeah...cause of 4 motor failures at FedexGround...OIL.. or lack of it...Using the proper oil and doing timely changes is paramount! ALSO don't use the Maintenance assyt as the gospel always use the odometer
10,000 mile or whatever comes first. The assyt is only a guideline or advisor(virtually useless). The warranty is based on the odometer only.

Question!

Now when diesel idles theres the issue of white smoke from the exhaust and soot build up that gets exhausted when we accelerate. Now if we idle for an extended time and then shutdown to go for say breakfast this soot or white smoke persay...WHAT happens to it? Does the soot cake in the engine? seeing that its not being expelled?

#2. Would it be best to say run around the block first to get out the soot and white smoke?

 

[Crazynuff]

This is interesting because FYDA Freightliner is still selling Sprinters . They sell them and can't service them ? I suspected problems like this would come up when Dodge dealerships had to service Sprinters .

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The keyword there is "Sprinter AUTHORIZED Dealers" Not all Dodge dealers can service Sprinters. I am trying to get a nationwide list of Sprinter dealers, but am having little luck. Guess I'll have to call head office.

 

[talkinghorse43]

Interesting points about the effects of extended idle.

I don't know if letting it sit after idling would have a negative effect or not.

But, maybe the gum, gunk, and steel-hard deposits described in previous posts here are due to deposits formed during extended low idle? I'm thinking soot could collect around the injectors and on the head and piston during low idle easier than at any other time. Mainly because there isn't much flow to blow any deposits away. Also, I'm guessing the relative amount of EGR flow might be highest during low idle, leading to low oxygen in the charge and increased soot production. Once a soot layer is formed, then it would probably act like a sponge and soak up any unburned fuel. Then, when you start off down the road, some of that fuel could decompose, due to the high temp of the soot layer, and leave behind more carbon which could glue the soot together into a stable deposit. It seems to me this could eventually lead to a deposit as hard as steel.

Maybe this dosen't happen during high idle (idle stick, high idle option) due to much higher flow blowing away any soot deposit before it can get thick? Maybe there's more oxygen available during high idle and less soot formed?

Does anyone know if extended low idle in a Sprinter has resulted in the deposits noted in this thread?

 

[JohnO]

Here is pdf listing Dodge Sprinter dealers
<http://www.airstream.com/airstream/find_dealer/DodgeSprinterDealers.pdf>
Hope it helps.

John

 

[greg334]

Honestly I think you were ripped off especially after he said that the brake light problem is related to the engine problem – this indicates he is an idiot mechanic. It sounds like he just screwed something up replacing the valve cover gaskets and needed to cover his a**.

Get a lawyer, call D-C to get someone out to investigate the issue and make a big deal about it, you paid for their time to look into the dealer ripping you off.

I am not going to post everything I wrote about this issue, but I will post a few of things.

First this is a message to all. Mechanics seem to think we are all dumb. I had to deal with one last week just to get a quote and he talked down to me until I explained to him that I am not retired Uncle Charley with the Malibu but a former certified mechanic and fleet manager – so I know a lot of the CYA tricks and I need the book cost for the work. My brother- in- law tells me stories about the mechanics he worked with and how they ’Pad†the bill because they made a mistake in diag of the vehicle. Also I have seen mechanics who after they tore everything done and found nothing take a hammer to the part just to say it was bad – so honest mechanics are hard to find.

Second I think that MB makes a d**n good engine, oldest diesel engine maker around – actually the oldest engine maker around. These exact engines are in a lot of standby generators, which sometimes idle for hours upon hours. As one who has overseen many of these generators, I can say that their dependably has been better than most of the others except Cummins. I would believe that MB with the MILLIONS of miles on these engines has little problems with them on the road in comparison to others. Beside I do blame D-C NA ops and the crappy dealer system we have in this country for most of the sprinter problems, not the vehicle itself. Knowing some who own sprinters in the UK and Germany - they have problems with electronics most of all, like brake light fuses popping. One person I know have almost a million KM on his sprinter, pretty good I think.

The last thing is if you are faced with this problem, tell the mechanic to prove the problem before the work is even done – DON’T just take their word for it. Have them show you the diag printout (in this case a balance test should have been done if I am not mistaken) and explain exactly what parts are to be replaced. If you have an issue where the engine has been torn down, inspect the parts, have the show you what is wrong. There is an issue of parts being returned to you when the work is done. I know in Michigan that the parts by law must be returned if you ask for them – even if there is a core charge applied to them. Warrantee work is the exception but you can inspect the part just the same. Many times the mechanic will “dispose†of the parts using all kinds of excuses, don’t tolerate it, he is covering something up. If they did the work without your approval, call the manager and talk to them and contact the state consumer affairs division to see what recourse can be taken, even file a complaint. Just because you signed something does not mean that they have the right to replace the engine when you went in there for an oil change.

Oh yea one last thing. I still own a Dodge Cummins PU and stopped going to any Dodge dealer in Michigan – lost trust in all of them. I have been going to Cummins for all the servicing of my Dodge PU. The dealers who have been recommended (my local dealer is on the top of their list) has always screwed up something on the truck (even when it was in for an oil change), the last thing was the IJ pump housing under a throttle cable recall. They cracked the housing trying to adjust the idle, the mechanic wrenched on the stop nut the wrong way so hard that he cracked the housing.