I would add to that....without having to give an explanation of WHY I made that decision to every dispatcher when I refuse a load. NO ACCEPTANCE figures required.... a simple yes or no and a thank you for calling....
Questions in the grand scheme of things…Part 1
- Thread starter trobertson
- Start date
I would add to that....without having to give an explanation of WHY I made that decision to every dispatcher when I refuse a load. NO ACCEPTANCE figures required.... a simple yes or no and a thank you for calling....
YES....Thats a good aspect to start off the negotiating process....
Like the "How much would it take you to move on this offer?"
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
Are you talking about a company driver or o/o at $60-80k?
carriers like E-1 the going number was around $65-80,000 gross on almost 100k ALL miles...my last 2 years were like that....O/O's Ron
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
$80k for 100k all miles might be doable for some with very limited expenses. $65k, no way fast way to the welfare office.
Me, $1.17 for all miles and my DH is higher than normal (kinda like yours prior to CRE). Cause when I get the hankern to go home, I go no matter where I'm at or how far it is.
But for loaded miles only, not gonna cut it.
trobertson
Rookie Expediter
I appreciate the comments so far, but some of you need to read the entire thread before commenting.
Many threads morph into discussions that have nothing to do with the original posters intentions of posting.
My first response is to ntimevan & - Don’t believe everything you hear…our trucks are dispatched at 45mph. That’s not to say that a driver did not take it upon themselves at some time to make a run like you mentioned, however we do not demand that our drivers go door todoor without proper rest. As to my purpose of asking these questions, I will say that a future post will clarify my intentions.
Next, Golftournut - The figure of .50 plm was presented by blizzard and furthermore WAS what an owner operator would use as the gross income because blizzard gave that figure as an expectation of income after fuel expense. Those figures are not mine, I was simply using those as presented. I should think that blizzard’sexpectations would be easily surpassed by any reputable carrier. I am guessing that gross revenue to a van or sprinter would be more realistically in the .70 plm after fuel costs.
T-hawk & davekc - You nailed it! Cheap freight is handled by cheap brokers andcheap carriers, taking advantage of those who are of the opinion that any loadat any rate is better than sitting. Those who participate soon find themselves unable to maintain their vehicle and re-join the minimum wage group.
Golftournut – I think perhaps the meaning of gross profit and gross revenue was misinterpreted. I personally believe that if you are getting $1.21 plm in a van for all your runs that you are in the minority…unless you are operating with your own authority.The amount you are claiming is the going rate for a van to the carrier for the majority of shipments within our industry .I’m certain that every van owner operator would love to have that kind of income. Most of the loads at the $1.21 rate must be shared between the carrier and owner/operator or fleet owner. If you’re truly getting these rates as an owner operator, consider yourself a very savvy businessman and fortunate in today’s marketplace.
And to your question – I agree! It would be ludicrous for a carrier to handle any load at .75 or .80 plm.
Dynamite1 -I have a feeling that you already know the reasons I am asking thesequestions!
OVM - The respect you earned from me years ago continues. Everyone needs to have asense of self-worth, but when that sense is elevated to certain levels, it could just as easily remove you from the industry as those who run for peanuts. Also thanks for your numbers; they are in-line with what I expected.
Moot – Thanks!You actually answered one of my questions,which leads to a better understanding of the decisions that are made by owneroperators.
Xiggi - LOL
So to put this thread back on the secondary trackI will ask again…
What are the most important aspects of being an owner operator?
Is it net income?
Is it the pride ofownership?
Is it the ability to make all decisions aboutwhen and where you go?
Is it something else entirely?
Tom Robertson
A Blair Enterprises
Louisville / Cleveland
Many threads morph into discussions that have nothing to do with the original posters intentions of posting.
My first response is to ntimevan & - Don’t believe everything you hear…our trucks are dispatched at 45mph. That’s not to say that a driver did not take it upon themselves at some time to make a run like you mentioned, however we do not demand that our drivers go door todoor without proper rest. As to my purpose of asking these questions, I will say that a future post will clarify my intentions.
Next, Golftournut - The figure of .50 plm was presented by blizzard and furthermore WAS what an owner operator would use as the gross income because blizzard gave that figure as an expectation of income after fuel expense. Those figures are not mine, I was simply using those as presented. I should think that blizzard’sexpectations would be easily surpassed by any reputable carrier. I am guessing that gross revenue to a van or sprinter would be more realistically in the .70 plm after fuel costs.
T-hawk & davekc - You nailed it! Cheap freight is handled by cheap brokers andcheap carriers, taking advantage of those who are of the opinion that any loadat any rate is better than sitting. Those who participate soon find themselves unable to maintain their vehicle and re-join the minimum wage group.
Golftournut – I think perhaps the meaning of gross profit and gross revenue was misinterpreted. I personally believe that if you are getting $1.21 plm in a van for all your runs that you are in the minority…unless you are operating with your own authority.The amount you are claiming is the going rate for a van to the carrier for the majority of shipments within our industry .I’m certain that every van owner operator would love to have that kind of income. Most of the loads at the $1.21 rate must be shared between the carrier and owner/operator or fleet owner. If you’re truly getting these rates as an owner operator, consider yourself a very savvy businessman and fortunate in today’s marketplace.
And to your question – I agree! It would be ludicrous for a carrier to handle any load at .75 or .80 plm.
Dynamite1 -I have a feeling that you already know the reasons I am asking thesequestions!
OVM - The respect you earned from me years ago continues. Everyone needs to have asense of self-worth, but when that sense is elevated to certain levels, it could just as easily remove you from the industry as those who run for peanuts. Also thanks for your numbers; they are in-line with what I expected.
Moot – Thanks!You actually answered one of my questions,which leads to a better understanding of the decisions that are made by owneroperators.
Xiggi - LOL
So to put this thread back on the secondary trackI will ask again…
What are the most important aspects of being an owner operator?
Is it net income?
Is it the pride ofownership?
Is it the ability to make all decisions aboutwhen and where you go?
Is it something else entirely?
Tom Robertson
A Blair Enterprises
Louisville / Cleveland
Last edited:
golfournut
Veteran Expediter
At Landstar the rates are way above average. For standard freight the rates to the van all in are at a minimum (if accepted) $1.15 and up from there. $1.35 to $1.58 is not uncommon for general freight. When I say general freight, that does not include auto. We don't do it. An A&E or hazmat is way up there. I think the highest A&E was like $14 pm for a 80 mile run. The highest for hazmat (non reportable) was $1.88 for a 2755 mile run.
It really boils down to customer base. Are your primary customers 3 pls and other carriers or are they the actual shipper.
While some agents at LS use both, most loads are shipper customer based. Some are truckload shipper based with a consistent Sprinter and s/t rate. Therefore less fingers in the pie.
Your company probably hauls some of that freight for an agent or 2. Maybe directly or indirectly. Maybe at the same or lessor rate. Depends on the agent and availability of a LS vehicle.
These rates are not special to me. It's what all the LS o/os get. Some are even consistently higher depending on the vehicle setup.
Yes...Net Income
Yes...Pride in being an O/Op
Yes...Yes in being a Business manager..making the decisions
Yes...being Respected by Carrier and treated like a Human and Business partner
Yes...being offered Loads that are going to be profitable
On the other topic I brought up ...thanks for your responce
Yes...Pride in being an O/Op
Yes...Yes in being a Business manager..making the decisions
Yes...being Respected by Carrier and treated like a Human and Business partner
Yes...being offered Loads that are going to be profitable
On the other topic I brought up ...thanks for your responce
Just a quick take.
Is it net income? Probably the biggest factor. If someone is splitting and saving the free Pilot hot dogs, net income would be the first thing. I read a article recently that surveyed existing drivers, and the number one item was respect from the carrier. I believe John Elliot was in the article. That is a driving factor as well yet some carriers just can't comprehend the concept. Read it here all the time. As previously mentioned, we even had a company president a year or so ago refer to his contracted drivers as a "commodity". Clearly one that doesn't get it.
Is it the pride ofownership? To some degree until they have to pay some of those huge repair bills.lol I believe a large group would rather not have the worry or risk exposure.
Is it the ability to make all decisions about when and where you go? Again, to some degree especially if weather is a factor. Compensation usually will tip the scale on some of that. In our case, the teams decide what and where they want to run.
Is it something else entirely? I really think it is a combination of things. Income that correlates to the actual demands and investment. Respect and transparency from the carrier would be the other big ones. Some forget it is really a partnership with both sides having a investment involved if we are talking about strictly owner operators.
Those actually don't sound like a long list, but one would be surprised at how important those three are. Everything flows from those items.
There's my penny in the pond.
Is it net income? Probably the biggest factor. If someone is splitting and saving the free Pilot hot dogs, net income would be the first thing. I read a article recently that surveyed existing drivers, and the number one item was respect from the carrier. I believe John Elliot was in the article. That is a driving factor as well yet some carriers just can't comprehend the concept. Read it here all the time. As previously mentioned, we even had a company president a year or so ago refer to his contracted drivers as a "commodity". Clearly one that doesn't get it.
Is it the pride ofownership? To some degree until they have to pay some of those huge repair bills.lol I believe a large group would rather not have the worry or risk exposure.
Is it the ability to make all decisions about when and where you go? Again, to some degree especially if weather is a factor. Compensation usually will tip the scale on some of that. In our case, the teams decide what and where they want to run.
Is it something else entirely? I really think it is a combination of things. Income that correlates to the actual demands and investment. Respect and transparency from the carrier would be the other big ones. Some forget it is really a partnership with both sides having a investment involved if we are talking about strictly owner operators.
Those actually don't sound like a long list, but one would be surprised at how important those three are. Everything flows from those items.
There's my penny in the pond.
To me each and every owner operator is an entity unto themselves and no 2 are the same. We all require or have a certain set of criteria to operate... But all with the same goal... To make a profit and be self supporting. And we do this thru for the most part down different paths. It's the end game that matters. One way is no more right or wrong than the other just different.What are the most important aspects of being an owner operator?
For me, the tax deductions. The lower the AGI, the better
Ya, it's boiled down to the net income.
That is correct. My experience has shown that some enjoy the "thrill of the hunt", working/thinking to succeed, wanting to see what is over the next hill and display common sense business practices and driving. Others would prefer you just write them a check every week......none two alike.
My penny also.
trobertson
Rookie Expediter
COL...
It's good to see you're still watching! I see you've added FL to your resume. I assume your enjoying the warmth during the brutal winter weather we've been having further north. Shoot me a note when you get back home to Indiana...maybe we can do lunch one day!
Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises
Louisville/Cleveland
It's good to see you're still watching! I see you've added FL to your resume. I assume your enjoying the warmth during the brutal winter weather we've been having further north. Shoot me a note when you get back home to Indiana...maybe we can do lunch one day!
Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises
Louisville/Cleveland
dalejrroks
Active Expediter
I am not an o/o but as a contract driver or as an o/o it would all come down to the list mentioned. Even as a driver I would be looking for the same things. Sure I dont have to big upfront investment that an o/o or fleet owner has but I run the truck as if I did and it leads me to be more profitable to myself and the fleet owner. So in a nutshell I think it all boils down to this.
Is it net income? / Is it the pride of ownership?
We are here to make money and the more the better obviously but in the end if you are happy with what you have after your expenses then you should have pride in that no matter what. Sure I would have pride in being an o/o but I would rather take pride in the fact I worked hard and succeeded in paying my bills and have money in my pocket to care for my family.
Is it the ability to make all decisions about when and where you go?
As for making all the decisions, I feel we pretty much do that already, even as a driver most fleet owners put that in your hands. Can our decisions be influenced? I would have to say they sure can be seeing how most of them are based on us making money to begin with. I would not however let pressure from a dispatcher to do something that would cost me money or put me in a bad situation in general influence any decision.
Is it something else entirely?
This I think is dependent on who you are. Myself I think respect from a carrier for what I do for them would be a great thing given that I represented them well and to the best of my ability. As a driver for a fleet owner same thing. Not for what I do for them but what we did and do as a partnership for each other. Higher rates, I feel would benefit everyone involved and not just in your bank account. Also in the pride you take in what you do and the feeling be valued for the services you provide.
Just my 2 cents worth take how you will lol.
Is it net income? / Is it the pride of ownership?
We are here to make money and the more the better obviously but in the end if you are happy with what you have after your expenses then you should have pride in that no matter what. Sure I would have pride in being an o/o but I would rather take pride in the fact I worked hard and succeeded in paying my bills and have money in my pocket to care for my family.
Is it the ability to make all decisions about when and where you go?
As for making all the decisions, I feel we pretty much do that already, even as a driver most fleet owners put that in your hands. Can our decisions be influenced? I would have to say they sure can be seeing how most of them are based on us making money to begin with. I would not however let pressure from a dispatcher to do something that would cost me money or put me in a bad situation in general influence any decision.
Is it something else entirely?
This I think is dependent on who you are. Myself I think respect from a carrier for what I do for them would be a great thing given that I represented them well and to the best of my ability. As a driver for a fleet owner same thing. Not for what I do for them but what we did and do as a partnership for each other. Higher rates, I feel would benefit everyone involved and not just in your bank account. Also in the pride you take in what you do and the feeling be valued for the services you provide.
Just my 2 cents worth take how you will lol.