Question about 34 hr restart....

[OntarioVanMan]

Can you be loaded say Friday.....go OOS for a restart and then deliver Monday morning?.....

 

[TeamCaffee]

Why would you go OOS? The truck has to be sitting for the 34 hour restart.

 

[zorry]

Why would you go OOS? The truck has to be sitting for the 34 hour restart.

Are you saying you cannot do personal conveyance and a restart at the same time ?
PC requires no pti as no work is preformed.
A carrier's rules would affect whether or not you can pc while loaded.

 

[TeamCaffee]

With our carrier yes we can do PC that fits into the rules and regulations for our carrier. Not all carriers have those rules.

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't think that you would be able to do PC under OVM's scenario of doing a reset while loaded. If I remember correctly you cannot do PC while under load.

 

[TeamCaffee]

Personal conveyance is authorized by USDOT for reasonable times or
distance each day but only for trucks that are unladen. A carrier may
allow personal conveyance and may define a reasonable length of time or
distance for each of its drivers or independent contractors leased to
them.



In our carrier's instance, PC may be taken during the 34 hour reset, but
must be completed at least 10 hours prior to departing for a pickup or
otherwise moving the truck following the reset. Therefore, If you have
a Monday morning pick-up at 1100 and reset over the weekend with a reset
completion at 0500 and a departure to pick-up time of 1000, you must
complete the PC prior to midnight Sunday.

 

[WanderngFool]

I may well be in violation but I follow what I think is the spirit of the law and I can't imagine anyone making a stink out of it.

 

[layoutshooter]

I may well be in violation but I follow what I think is the spirit of the law and I can't imagine anyone making a stink out of it.

If loaded and taking a restart: I wander around for food or errands as I please but I make a point of not getting any closer to my delivery.

If empty and taking a restart: ditto for wandering around as I please but I make a point of not improving my situation eg getting closer to a big city or even just a highway.

I honestly think that follows the spirit of the law.

If you are caught you will likely be cited. They are not interested in the "spirit" of the law, they are interested in enforcing it as it states. Loaded trucks cannot be used for PC. With CSA points it is important to stay as legal as possible, to the letter.

 

[WanderngFool]

If you are caught you will likely be cited. They are not interested in the "spirit" of the law, they are interested in enforcing it as it states. Loaded trucks cannot be used for PC. With CSA points it is important to stay as legal as possible, to the letter.

Ok, I went guidance hunting and found ambiguity.

Personal Use of a Commercial Motor Vehicle

It is possible that occasionally you may not use a truck in commerce at all. You may be moving your
personal belongings to a new house or, as a hobby, you may be taking your horses to a horse show.
As long as the activity is not in support of a business, the Federal hours-of-service regulations do
not apply to you.
If you are not operating your truck in commerce, you are not subject to the hours-of-service
regulations.

And

What Is Off-Duty Time?

By understanding the definition of on-duty time, you will get a
good idea of what is considered off-duty time. In order for time
to be considered off-duty, you must be relieved of all duty and
responsibility for performing work. You must be free to pursue
activities of your own choosing and be able to leave the place
where your vehicle is parked.
If you are not doing any work (paid or unpaid) for a motor carrier,
and you are not doing any paid work for anyone else, you may
record the time as off-duty time.

 

[layoutshooter]

Ok, I went guidance hunting and found ambiguity.



And



If you consider a load in the back of your truck as "responsibility for performing work" then there's no such thing as going off-duty whenever you're carrying freight so I don't think that points to a restriction. I think my way is perfectly acceptable. I certainly thing it's defenseable in a courtroom.

All I can say is good luck. You can do as you please. We cannot take PC when loaded.

 

[WanderngFool]

Not really related but while digging for more info. From the regs 395.2 On-Duty Time Definition part (8)

Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of, a motor carrier

So anybody knocking out some paperwork while on restart just sabotaged their 34 restart and they're in violation.

I'd like to see these fmcsa/dot people spend a weekend in an area the size of a closet and not be thankful they have a little something to occupy their minds. But I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know, the regs are nuts.

Back to the op's question - I just thought I'd pass along something I found interesting along the way.

 

[Turtle]

I may well be in violation but I follow what I think is the spirit of the law and I can't imagine anyone making a stink out of it.

DOT cops exist to make a stink out of it. That's what they do for a living. Everything is black and white, there is no gray area. Rules where different interpretations can be made, such as invoking the "spirit of the law," those interpretations never favor the driver.

Interpretation for 395.8: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

If you go to that link you will see Question 26 where it talks about how to handle personal conveyance. In that paragraph you will find a sentence that allows no wiggle room whatsoever. It does not allow for any arbitrarily self-imposed restrictions such as 'not moving closer to the delivery' in order to rationalize violating the Record of Duty Status requirements (49 CFR §395.15). The sentence reads:

"A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance."

There is only one way to interpret that.

 

[WanderngFool]

DOT cops exist to make a stink out of it. That's what they do for a living. Everything is black and white, there is no gray area. Rules where different interpretations can be made, such as invoking the "spirit of the law," those interpretations never favor the driver.

Interpretation for 395.8: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

If you go to that link you will see Question 26 where it talks about how to handle personal conveyance. In that paragraph you will find a sentence that allows no wiggle room whatsoever. It does not allow for any arbitrarily self-imposed restrictions such as 'not moving closer to the delivery' in order to rationalize violating the Record of Duty Status requirements (49 CFR §395.15). The sentence reads:

"A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance."

There is only one way to interpret that.

Thanks for posting that! I would never in a million years do such a thing and I appreciate the guidance on the issue.

But that brings up a situation that puts many drivers (not me of course ) in violation. By definition, when a driver exits a highway with a laden vehicle in search of fastfood he's adding personal conveyance miles to his trip.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Thanks for posting that! I would never in a million years do such a thing and I appreciate the guidance on the issue.

But that brings up a situation that puts many drivers (not me of course ) in violation. By definition, when a driver exits a highway with a laden vehicle in search of fastfood he's adding personal conveyance miles to his trip.

I would say..that would be a paid lunch.... or use that 30 minute break....

 

[layoutshooter]

I would say..that would be a paid lunch.... or use that 30 minute break....

You have to be careful just when during your shift you use that 20 minute joke. Take it too early and you may have to take a second break.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I don't know of many straight drivers especially teams that go fast food hunting while under load....even worse for solo's....time is really your enemy...

 

[Turtle]

But that brings up a situation that puts many drivers (not me of course ) in violation. By definition, when a driver exits a highway with a laden vehicle in search of fastfood he's adding personal conveyance miles to his trip.

It doesn't put anyone in violation. On-Duty Driving is On-Duty Driving. By definition, a driver cannot have personal conveyance miles while operating a laden CMV.

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't know of many straight drivers especially teams that go fast food hunting while under load....even worse for solo's....time is really your enemy...

This may be a bit off topic, but what are you talking about? It would be a VERY strange load not to have time to stop for a sandwich.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

But that brings up a situation that puts many drivers (not me of course ) in violation. By definition, when a driver exits a highway with a laden vehicle in search of fast food he's adding personal conveyance miles to his trip

that is what I was referring to...also Turtle answered it even better....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

so 2... 1am to 5am's must fall within that 34 hour window?