percentages

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Who is a good carrier for fleet owner solo cargo van drivers, any idea? I'd like to know.

Don't be offended by this but ... Duh! Don't you read the forum? :p

The bestest carrier out there is the one with the most elated posts about it, its contractors and van washing system (not to mention the massage and spa center, the drivers theater with personalized pop corn and beverage service and the van detailing service for those sparkling vans) ... look in the carrier forum for the most active part of that forum and you have your answer.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Who is a good carrier for fleet owner solo cargo van drivers, any idea? I'd like to know.
If you drive a cargo van for a fleet owner, there is no good carrier, because regardless of the carrier, the driver and the owner will have to split cargo van money, and there's just not enough of it to start with in order to split it up like that for either the owner or the driver to make any money.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
OK, we'll go with that, but in reality Panther is lucky if they have one van sitting outside JFK. Eleven in Detroit or Chicago, sure, but not JFK. :D

No, the reality is that I did turn it down.

No, I told Panther, "I'll take it IF..." I told them, in effect, "I refuse that load offer at my contracted rate, but I would be willing to run it after renegotiating the contract for this load offer."

Panther doesn't put me in hold mode, they hit me with a refusal because I refused the load at my contracted rate. At the time I wanted to renegotiate, they were not in dire straights, so to speak, and thus were not under any pressure to renegotiate, as they had other options to pursue. As more time passes and the scheduled pickup time approaches, getting that load covered quickly becomes the overriding factor, and if that means paying someone else the same bonus I had already asked for to get that load covered, they'll do it.

That happens a lot. I've turned down plenty of loads that I'd have lost money on, only to have some idiot down the line take the load because they need lunch money or something. Panther knows this, which is why they will not renegotiate a load offer as long as they have additional vans to offer the load to. I don't blame them for that. I'd do thee same thing.

No, I really DID turn it down. I'm contracted to run loads for Panther at 77 cents a mile plus FSC. They offer, I accept or decline. It's as simple as that.

If you say so.

Wrong. Panther is basically (literally) saying, "The load pays your contract rate, and the FSC is xx cents. The loaded miles is xxx and it picks up at XX:XX time and delivers at XX:XX time. Do you want the load?"

In the trucking industry "forced dispatch" has a very narrow, very specific meaning, that of you cannot turn down any loads, and if you do, then your job or contract will be terminated. People are constantly trying to expand that definition to mean "I should be able to turn down loads, to be able to pick and choose to my heart's content, with no consequences whatsoever."

You can be that picky if you have your own authority and broker your own loads, but when you lease on with a carrier then you do not have such complete autonomy even as an independent contractor, as when you lease on with a carrier, you are running under their authority and are transferring the right to possession and/or use of goods or equipment (your truck) for a term in return for contracted consideration. You have a certain ethical and legal responsibility to the carrier, and if you cannot fulfill that responsibility, they will either stop using you or cut you loose.

If they offer you a load that pays less than your contracted rate, then they are the ones trying to renegotiate the contract for that load, and you can accept or reject those as you like, but because the load was offered outside of your contract, refusing such an offer will not count against you.

Some people look shortsighted on a load-by-load basis, and they're the ones who get mired down in the waaa-waaaa-forced dispatch quagmire. But if you look at things by the week, month or quarter, you'll see that you can, and may have to, take a few stinkers now and again in order to put yourself in the position of turning down a truly unprofitable load when you want to, or even better, to be able to call the shots when you have them by the short hairs. I've run many a load where the load ended up paying every dime Panther had in the load. When you learn the rules and know how to play the game, when you know you're their only option and the customer is one they can not say not to, you can make up for 2 or 3 stinkers in one whack.

Not every load is going to be a primo load, or go where you want it to go, or whatever. But the majority of loads offered by Panther are, in fact, profitable loads. Loads that are more or less regular, run-o-the-mill loads, if you turn those down it's gonna count against you. Loads with extenuating circumstances like lots of tolls, or going to a place where you'll have a snotload of deadhead on the backend, most dispatchers realize the situation and will enter the refusal as a dispatch error. I've had that happen many times. Instead of getting crabby and saying "NO!!!" because they offered you a crappy load, if you explain why the load isn't profitable, many times they'll listen and try to make it profitable, if they can. Sometimes they can't.

They've got a job to do, loads gotta be covered, I understand that, and I'll try to take as many as I can as long as I'm profitable in the long run. I won't take any load which I actually lose money on, however, nor does Panther expect me to.

The bottom line is, if you turn down enough loads to the point where the carrier cannot rely on you, they will not call you when they need a load covered, and they will use other independent contractors to fulfill their promises to their customers. That doesn't mean they have "forced dispatch" by a long shot. When you lease on with a carrier they agree to offer you loads, and you agree to run them. They don't agree to provide you with only the loads you really, really like, anymore than you agree to run all of the loads they offer you. But if they don't offer you enough loads, if you can't count on them, then you can find another carrier who fills your needs better. The reverse is also true, where if the carrier can't count on you, they'll find someone they can.

That is a very good post that places the facts directly on the plates of the "roast goose hunters", problem is, the want the goose roasted, but........they don't like goose. What'ca gonna do with em. What you need there shelled one,.......is start an Expediting Company and sign on about 20 these clowns.. You WILL get tired of splain'in.......specially typ'in an splain'in.

At least you not getting that load, allowed you time to in fact, splain some tings to da folks.
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
That is a very good post that places the facts directly on the plates of the "roast goose hunters", problem is, the want the goose roasted, but........they don't like goose. What'ca gonna do with em. What you need there shelled one,.......is start an Expediting Company and sign on about 20 these clowns.. You WILL get tired of splain'in.......specially typ'in an splain'in.

At least you not getting that load, allowed you time to in fact, splain some tings to da folks.

And there's 2 ways to cover this also:

OP:
COMON PANTHER IF YOU STOP TAKING THE SHORT HAULS THAT MAKE A CONTRACTOR WORKING ON A % OF THE LOAD

The the shelled one said:
Yeah, we do have the option to negotiate in vans. The problem is there a a bazillion vans, and they will offer it to each and every available van before they budge an inch on any extra money.

So, even as an outsider, I saw this as a guy working on "Percentage Pay". Guy above said he was working on a "% of the load", as shown above. And then Turtle came back with "we have an option to negotiate."

I don't know if ALL CV drivers are working under a set pay contract, or are working on a percentage of the total load pay contract. Hell, just about every company out there has a different way of paying all these "Drivers", so it's really hard to keep up with each and every Expediting company when it comes to their pay system.

Then after I asked my question, which was brought forth because the OP did say "a contractor working on a % of the load", and Turtle saying "you can negotiate", it was clearly explained to me, and others, in a 37 paragraph retort that covered "contracted rates".

The retort could have been covered in less than 60 words and maybe 8-10 sentences.

Here's an example:

The guy is probably running under a set-rate contract. If load is turned down because he refused to fulfill a delivery request that was offered at his set rate pay, then Yes, his load acceptance and turn down %'s will be affected, and possibly in a negative manner too.

So, Turtles retort is cool, but I covered it less than 3 minutes, right?
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I would say Turtle's post accurately reflects how much of their dispatching goes.

I would also concur in that we have never been "forced" to take a load that wasn't profitable.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
So, even as an outsider, I saw this as a guy working on "Percentage Pay". Guy above said he was working on a "% of the load", as shown above. And then Turtle came back with "we have an option to negotiate."
As an outsider, you missed it. Dood drives for Panther and is on a contracted rate per mile, not a percentage of the load.

What he said in the all-caps portion that you quoted makes no sense whatsoever, EXCEPT and UNLESS you know that he drives a truck for an owner and splits the load 60/40 with 60% of the load going to him, which he does. That's the % of the load he is talking about, not as him working on a percentage contract with the carrier. Also, he drives a straight truck, not a van.

So, Turtles retort is cool, but I covered it less than 3 minutes, right?
Yeah, except you got it wrong. :D
 

dabluzman1

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As far as I see it.
Panther is just watching out for its drivers.
Yeah, it is the truth.
By raising the % you will make more money if you comply.
Resistance is futile.:D
 
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