how many companys are useing % such as on time ,acceptance, out ut of service and what ever, my company panther has just raised the acceptance rate to 73 % if you refuse 1.15 % of your offers you will go down to 73%or lesS, which means if you refuse 2 OUT OF 4 loads you are down to less than 60%,COMON PANTHER IF YOU STOP TAKING THE SHORT HAULS THAT MAKE A CONTRACTOR WORKING ON A % OF THE LOAD AND LEAVES YOU STUCK LET AS SAY ON LONG ISLAND WHICH MEANS YOUR GOING TO GET OFFERD ANOTHER SHORT LOAD THAT PICKS IN JFK AND GOES TO NJ AND THEN YOUR STUCK ON ANOTHER BAD BOARD UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMEONE IN OFFICE AND IS WATHCING YOUR TRK. AND THER SEEMS TO BE SOME OF THAT GOING ON HERE ENOUGH SAID LETS HEAR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS ONE
percentages
- Thread starter ttruck
- Start date
Might be a issue with vans, but we don't even pay attention to that. BTW, NJ is an excellent board.
WIth how they dispatch, truck size,rate, qualifications, team or single, and who is closest to the freight gets the load.
Board position has no value.
WIth how they dispatch, truck size,rate, qualifications, team or single, and who is closest to the freight gets the load.
Board position has no value.
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Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Then what is it? A falsehood? Diversionary tactic?
Well, it's not as bad as people try and make it out to be, but it can be bad, or worse, in certain situations. One of the problems with Panther being so big is that they have contracts with certain parties where Panther will not say no to a load. Smaller carriers can have that, too, of course, but the sheer number of those at Panther can be a lot. Panther doesn't go out onto bid boards and bid on crappy loads - the crappy loads are contracted and Panther really can't say no, even if it means brokering it out. Also, Panther will generally not say not to any load that comes in via phone call or the Internet unless it's in a place where they just cannot get it covered at all.
People say Panther should just say no to the crappy loads, and that sounds fine from the perspective of a driver, but if Panther says no to the crappy loads, they won't be offered the good loads from those same customers, either. Those customers will simply find another carrier to haul most of their loads. Customers don't like cherry picking carriers that they have to rely on any more than carriers like cherry picking contractors they have to reply on.
It's real simple, if you are a cherry picker, Panther is not the place for you, because there will be both good and not-so good loads you have to deal with. Some (or many) of the smaller carriers already do the cherry picking for you, because they want the long, more profitable loads, too, and you don't see as many crappy loads. You'll see a few, because smaller carriers have their own customers with a few crappy loads, too, just not as many.
Another problem is that Panther caters to the fleet owner rather than the owner/operator. Not as much of a problem with tractors and straights, but in a van there isn't a big enough of a pie to split between the driver and the owner to make the crappy loads viable to take. A 200 mile load to an O/O in a van can be a profitable load, especially since Panther pays a FSC on deadhead miles. It's not gonna get you a new flat screen TV for the van, but you're not going to lose money on it, either. But if you drive for a fleet owner and are splitting 60/40, it's a dog with fleas. Driving a van for an owner, you need at least 450 or 500 miles to make a decent day's pay. So, you get a lot of van fleet drivers turning down loads that would otherwise be profitable to an O/O, and their acceptance rate drops like a brick. Panther is probably not a good fit for these people.
Well, they don't really penalize you for turning down a load or two, although it could come down to that if you let it. They penalize you, if you will, for an unacceptable acceptance rate history. In baseball, they're not going to DFA you for striking out or going 0-5 in a game, but they might if you are hitting .167 instead of .230. You're not getting the job done, they can't count on you, and they'll find someone else who can. Same with a carrier like Panther, if you have a history of turning down too many loads, they can't worry about you, they've got loads to get covered, and they've pass you over for someone who will accept the loads.
I am in a tractor, so what I am getting ready to say may not apply to cv's as I have never ran one. When they send a crappy load across to me, I look at it and figure out what it would take $$ wise to make it an ok load. If they pay it then cool, if not I ask for a backup load out. If neither one of these can be achieved I pass. I remember a guy telling me a long time ago that everything with the cat is a negotiation. Do you guys in vans have options like that as well? I am not knocking I just don't know how your operation works.
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AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Like pretty much everybody in this industry, they want the advantages that come with you being an employee combined with the advantages they get from merely contracting you. If you play their game, they get the best of both worlds and you get the worst of both worlds.
Yeah, we do have the option to negotiate in vans. The problem is there a a bazillion vans, and they will offer it to each and every available van before they budge an inch on any extra money. It it's offered to you first and you ask for, say, an extra $50 or something, they will tell you they have to offer it to all the other 11 nearby vans first, and chances are someone will take it without asking for any extra money. If no one will take it, they'll tend to offer the extra money to the LAST driver they offered it to, rather than come back to #1 again. Partly that's because by the time they get that deep in the offers, it could be an hour or two and they're running out of time to get it covered and picked up on-time.
That's why I like being on the fringes, not as many vans around, and I can usually get bonus money out of 'em if the load requires it. Not as many loads, either, of course, but the revenue tends to work out better when I'm not sitting near a bunch of other vans.
That's why I like being on the fringes, not as many vans around, and I can usually get bonus money out of 'em if the load requires it. Not as many loads, either, of course, but the revenue tends to work out better when I'm not sitting near a bunch of other vans.
As mentioned, negotiating is the key. I can see that as a tougher gig with a van. Tractors and straights have alot more room on this regardless of the load. If I don't like the load, can always grab my own. Probably helps with the percentages thing as well. We don't turn down our own loads.
Mike99
Veteran Expediter
The real problem is that if you take a short run for example 70 miles ,you start your 15 hours stupid rule. So if you are lucky and get a 500 miles run they will swap it after 200 miles. If you are not lucky you have just 70 miles on that day. They should pay more on the short runs.You are loosing in both ways. But ..that's Panther. It is not a good company for Cargo van solo .They have way to many units.People come and go...
miguy1957
Expert Expediter
"You want me to start my 16 hour clock for $70? No thanks."
Got a bonus to run it.
OOPS, Sorry, got to take it, turn down more than one of those a week and you will be under 73% based on 4 loads a week.
Brisco
Expert Expediter
Question came to mind just now..........
Let's say I'm sitting there outside of JFK with 11 other vans, and this scenario just played out. I'm the first one they contacted, I say sure I'll take the load but I need an extra $50 to get it covered, they say we'll get back to you. Now down the line of contacted the other 11 drivers, driver 11 accepted it, with the extra $50 involved, and he receives the accepted load on his "ranking".
Now, reality is, you did not "turn down" that load. You did tell Panther "Yes, I'll take it, But I need this extra amount to cover it". Panther puts you in hold mode and then finds someone else to get the load covered at a price You would have ran it for. Basically, Panther just turned you down. So, will that count as a "turn down" on your part and count against your percentages?
Second part.....Driver 5 accepts it at the original offering price. Again, you DID NOT turn down that load. You agreed to the load, but, needed $XX more to make it profitable.
You really DID NOT turn down that load. You offered to cover it for a price that was more beneficial to your bottom line and not Panthers. If Panther places a "turn down" against your percent ratings cause you could not operate at a profit if you ran that load, then Yes, that is a form of "forced dispatch". Panther is basically saying take the load at our prices or don't bother running for us, whether there's profit in it for you or not. And if you don't take our loads, we have a "forced dispatch" system in place that will make it where if you turn down our loads, then you might as well be contracting somewhere else. Right???
If you agreed to this in your contract, then so be it. But if these percentage values were not in your contract when you signed on say, 3 years ago, but are having to accept this structure today, again, Panther does have a "forced dispatch" policy in place today for CV's.
Camper
Not a Member
That's what you call the back door method of forcing dispatch.
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OK, we'll go with that, but in reality Panther is lucky if they have one van sitting outside JFK. Eleven in Detroit or Chicago, sure, but not JFK.
No, the reality is that I did turn it down.
No, I told Panther, "I'll take it IF..." I told them, in effect, "I refuse that load offer at my contracted rate, but I would be willing to run it after renegotiating the contract for this load offer."
Panther doesn't put me in hold mode, they hit me with a refusal because I refused the load at my contracted rate. At the time I wanted to renegotiate, they were not in dire straights, so to speak, and thus were not under any pressure to renegotiate, as they had other options to pursue. As more time passes and the scheduled pickup time approaches, getting that load covered quickly becomes the overriding factor, and if that means paying someone else the same bonus I had already asked for to get that load covered, they'll do it.
That happens a lot. I've turned down plenty of loads that I'd have lost money on, only to have some idiot down the line take the load because they need lunch money or something. Panther knows this, which is why they will not renegotiate a load offer as long as they have additional vans to offer the load to. I don't blame them for that. I'd do thee same thing.
No, I really DID turn it down. I'm contracted to run loads for Panther at 77 cents a mile plus FSC. They offer, I accept or decline. It's as simple as that.
If you say so.
Wrong. Panther is basically (literally) saying, "The load pays your contract rate, and the FSC is xx cents. The loaded miles is xxx and it picks up at XX:XX time and delivers at XX:XX time. Do you want the load?"
In the trucking industry "forced dispatch" has a very narrow, very specific meaning, that of you cannot turn down any loads, and if you do, then your job or contract will be terminated. People are constantly trying to expand that definition to mean "I should be able to turn down loads, to be able to pick and choose to my heart's content, with no consequences whatsoever."
You can be that picky if you have your own authority and broker your own loads, but when you lease on with a carrier then you do not have such complete autonomy even as an independent contractor, as when you lease on with a carrier, you are running under their authority and are transferring the right to possession and/or use of goods or equipment (your truck) for a term in return for contracted consideration. You have a certain ethical and legal responsibility to the carrier, and if you cannot fulfill that responsibility, they will either stop using you or cut you loose.
If they offer you a load that pays less than your contracted rate, then they are the ones trying to renegotiate the contract for that load, and you can accept or reject those as you like, but because the load was offered outside of your contract, refusing such an offer will not count against you.
Some people look shortsighted on a load-by-load basis, and they're the ones who get mired down in the waaa-waaaa-forced dispatch quagmire. But if you look at things by the week, month or quarter, you'll see that you can, and may have to, take a few stinkers now and again in order to put yourself in the position of turning down a truly unprofitable load when you want to, or even better, to be able to call the shots when you have them by the short hairs. I've run many a load where the load ended up paying every dime Panther had in the load. When you learn the rules and know how to play the game, when you know you're their only option and the customer is one they can not say not to, you can make up for 2 or 3 stinkers in one whack.
Not every load is going to be a primo load, or go where you want it to go, or whatever. But the majority of loads offered by Panther are, in fact, profitable loads. Loads that are more or less regular, run-o-the-mill loads, if you turn those down it's gonna count against you. Loads with extenuating circumstances like lots of tolls, or going to a place where you'll have a snotload of deadhead on the backend, most dispatchers realize the situation and will enter the refusal as a dispatch error. I've had that happen many times. Instead of getting crabby and saying "NO!!!" because they offered you a crappy load, if you explain why the load isn't profitable, many times they'll listen and try to make it profitable, if they can. Sometimes they can't.
They've got a job to do, loads gotta be covered, I understand that, and I'll try to take as many as I can as long as I'm profitable in the long run. I won't take any load which I actually lose money on, however, nor does Panther expect me to.
The bottom line is, if you turn down enough loads to the point where the carrier cannot rely on you, they will not call you when they need a load covered, and they will use other independent contractors to fulfill their promises to their customers. That doesn't mean they have "forced dispatch" by a long shot. When you lease on with a carrier they agree to offer you loads, and you agree to run them. They don't agree to provide you with only the loads you really, really like, anymore than you agree to run all of the loads they offer you. But if they don't offer you enough loads, if you can't count on them, then you can find another carrier who fills your needs better. The reverse is also true, where if the carrier can't count on you, they'll find someone they can.
Phoenix4774
Seasoned Expediter
Who is a good carrier for fleet owner solo cargo van drivers, any idea? I'd like to know.