Our Second Question!

[TeamCozumel]

Linda and I are really struggling with this idea of expediting and feel we may want to suspend this until the economy feels a bit more solid. We spoke with a recruiter the other day that discouraged us from getting into this based on our limited experience and based on how slow things are for them. But he did point out that he can't speak for those hauling for FedEx or Panther so I thought I would ask for some feedback on this.

More specifically, we've heard that Panther offers a training program. I have a CDL B with Hazmat but Linda does not. I have not been behind a wheel for 2 years so would just need the physical and maybe a refresher. Most of the stuff I drove around here was Class 7. However, I am used to air brake systems.

Did I mention we live in Washington state? We say we're willing to bite the bullet and stay out as long as three months at a time. But considering it would be tough to get loads near home, how realistic is it for us to think of staying out for three months when we've never done anything remotely close to this? I mean, this would be a new experience in every possible way!

We've narrowed down straight trucks to start in and would probably look to work under a (fleet?) owner with their equipment for a minimum of six months as we learn.

I guess the bottom line is this: Is this the worst possible time to consider expediting? The same recruiter I mentioned above said that this is the worst forth quarter his business has seen for years. We don't want to get out there and sit around for two weeks waiting for loads.

Thanks for all the feedback and happy hauling!

-Todd and Linda

 

[dhalltoyo]

I would suggest that you wait; simply for all of the reasons you covered in your post.

Washington is a little tough, but there are a few that have been successful in the Northwest.

Yes, we all seem to be idle more often these days.

Sitting for 2-3-4-5 days while waiting on the next load can get old very quickly.

Keep reading and watching for indications that the business is increasing.




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[x06col]

due to what seems to be the new expediting environment, maybe we could start a nitch market truck setting. that way the expediters could go on vacation while waiting for a load, an we could have her all loaded up and pointed toward the delivery when they get back. Any takers? Course i'd want paid transportation to and from the truck, and what some have called "extreme boredom" double time pay while waiting, truck'd have to have at least a 100" sleeper, micro, computer, dig tv, an a fridge. Plus a bonus if i got ya a load that paid over 3 buks a mile. I can't tink of any other roast goose tings id need, so I guess just that'd have to be in the contract. I don't want much.

 

[cheri1122]

Between DHallToyo's fine-print disclaimer ("I accept no liability for the content of this post"?!) and the Col's non-sequiter, doesn't look like much help, eh?
Not that I can offer much more, except the usual: read at least a year in Newbie's and General Forums, talk to all the real life expediters you can find, attend the EO seminars if possible, compile a list of questions that you haven't found the answers to yet, and filter everything you read & hear through your own common sense & experience.
Best of luck to you, ok?

 

[ATeam]

A growing number of expediters with a variety of carriers are reporting slower freight. How long it will be until freight recovers and how strong the recovery will be is anyone's guess. So if you choose to enter the business now, there is no question about it, you will be doing so at a slow time. Any expectations you may have formed based on people's past statements about revenue should be reconsidered, not as false, but as unlikely to repeat in the current recession.

Diane and I are going to have a profitable 2008 but not as profitable as 2007. The slowdown for us is coming late in the year and we are planning for the worst, which in our view is a slow full year in 2009.

If you have the luxury of waiting to get into this industry, it may very well be a luxury to enjoy. We are not without other opportunities but choose to stay. We love this business and it will take a lot more than a freight slowdown to prompt an exit.

About entering or avoiding the industry because of your "limited experience," I would not worry much about that. Inexperienced people enter expediting all the time and many quickly match or exceed the performance of expediters that have been in the business a long time.

You are already researching the business, which is a plus. If you have a good work ethic and the ability to learn some basic expediting tasks, I would expect you to do as well or better than any new entrant; especially if you begin in a fleet owner's truck and have some money in the bank to fall back on if needed.

About getting home, you can always get there anytime you wish if you are willing to simply pick up and drive at your own expense. Washington state is not an expedited freight hot spot. Expedited freight is usually not directional. You seldom know far in advance where the next load will take you. So the "normal" freight you haul will seldom take you home, and will almost never take you home when you have a scheduled need to be there. Some carriers offer programs that enable you to book "outside" freight on your own which may be a plus for you.

Diane and I tried our carriers "Home Run" program one time and it worked as designed. The trial was more out of curiosity than anything else. Our normal practice is to simply go out of service and drive home when we want to go. We live in Minnesota. If we lived in Washington, we might rely on the Home Run program more.

Panther has a "backhaul" program, as some people call it. I'll leave it to Panther people to talk about that.

You asked, "Is this the worst possible time to consider expediting?"

No, it is not.

Expediting veterans point to another period when things were worse than they are today. They report sitting for a week or more between loads. One told me of a month when he was in service 100% of the time and accepted 100% of the loads offered. He hauled one load that month. THAT is slow. And that is worse than the slowdown we see today.

Comparing the two periods would be of historical interest but of little value in making the decision you are considering now. Looking ahead to the near future, it is hard to say what is or is not coming next in this industry. I believe it is fair to say that the freight, and thus the money, will not be picking up any time soon.

If you can wait, waiting may be the best thing to do. The country will still be there to see when the recession ends. The tourist fun will still be there to have. While you wait, you can get the CDLs and endorsements you will need to enter the business and you can continue to research the opportunity. The research you do now will make you that much stronger when you later jump in.

 

[davekc]

Ateam wrote
About entering or avoiding the industry because of your "limited experience," I would not worry much about that. Inexperienced people enter expediting all the time and many quickly match or exceed the performance of expediters that have been in the business a long time
====================================
I agreed with your post until this paragraph. In a tight economy, the person with "limited experience" will be at more of a disadvantage than someone doing this for a good deal of time. The time it takes to learn where the freight is for a particular carrier can take some time and can be devastating on someone new. One mistake into the wrong area could cost the uninformed a week of revenue during a slow time.
Certainly can be learned through a period of time and many errors, but certainly not for the meek.
I won't even go into the maintenance and other issues involved in the business.
One would be better served to work with someone possessing that knowledge already and then consider the expanded opportunities upon a improved economy.
If looking at repos of single truck owners, they are from owners with less than five years of experience verses ones with considerably more.

 

[TeamCaffee]

About entering or avoiding the industry because of your "limited experience," I would not worry much about that. Inexperienced people enter expediting all the time and many quickly match or exceed the performance of expediters that have been in the business a long time.

Here is why I think this is a true statement:
When you are new you have no preconceived ideas and you do not say we do something that way because it is the way we have always done it! The new person is more often willing to listen and learn they ask questions and they read a lot if they are going to succeed. Right now we often hear the veterans scoff at ideas on how to run your truck to save fuel, to take loads to get you to a better area even though they do not pay a premium, the inexperience person is willing to pick up the phone and network on how to get the job done best. The Veteran will often not ask questions as they know it all! We are in very turbulent times and we are constantly having to change how we do business it is just not the same world it was 5 years ago. So if the new inexperienced person is willing to ask a lot of questions and learn they are going to do very well.

 

[davekc]

I would agree with you Linder if the new person ask the right questions and IF we are to assume that someone with experience doesn't have the ability to adapt.
The problem is, those are exceptions. That is why the new have a much more difficult time financing a truck right now.
Most have started to require a level of experience unless you are leveraging the truck with something of sigificant value or are willing to pay a high interest rate.
And even then, it isn't a given.
As mentioned, the trucking finance industry looks at all of the statistics and data rather than exceptions either way.
Pretty much a fact that the new fail at a much higher rate than the experienced.

 

[BillChaffey]

Team Caffee,
thank you for a encouraging post. I have been Expediting on & off for 15 months, going from riding high to really struggling, and am definitely learning every day. Some lessons are pleasant and some are not.

 

[TeamCaffee]

Dave I agree the right questions or even wrong questions need to be asked but when you look back at many of the new people on EO that have made it that is a encouraging sign. Yes we have seen some fail and a lot of those that did fail were coming into this business and they were not willing to listen ask questions and learn. I feel as if most people wanting to get into this business that do not have the get rich attitude and do a little research will do well. The ones that are sitting back reading and researching before they jump in are most often the winners.

You can listen to the news and you are constantly hearing about the veterans going out of business as they are not willing to change with the times or they were not willing to put back for a rainy day.

Thanks bearcat44 for your comments. We have also had many ups and many downs but we have a great network of friends who are very positive and that keeps our chin up! Of course it helps that we really enjoy what we are doing as I hope you are also!

 

[scottanhelen]

There are some very goo points made here. New or old any one in this busniss must allways ask questions, we must always keep up on what is going on. If any one thinks they know every thing about this busniss it could mark the beginning of the end for them, because things allways change. On problem I can see for new people, even if they are willing to ask questions and are willing to take advise, is they will also need to find the right people to ask and listen to. Some of the people in this business can talk a good game but latter you will find they do not know there DOT bumper from a hole in the ground. ( The last statement was ment as a general statment and not directed at any one. ) This can be very hard for a new person to determin who to listen to.

 

[ATeam]

In a tight economy, the person with "limited experience" will be at more of a disadvantage than someone doing this for a good deal of time. The time it takes to learn where the freight is for a particular carrier can take some time and can be devastating on someone new. One mistake into the wrong area could cost the uninformed a week of revenue during a slow time.
Certainly can be learned through a period of time and many errors, but certainly not for the meek.
I won't even go into the maintenance and other issues involved in the business.

The prospective team in question is talking about beginning in a fleet owner's truck. Would not the fleet owner be the one to provide the knowledge of the freigtht centers and maintenance issues?

It was in our case. We entered the business with the ink still wet on our CDLs and having no idea how to run a Qualcomm unit or a log book. We knew nothing about express centers, let alone which ones were busy and slow. But our fleet owner did and happily provided the information. All we had to do was ask. It did not cost us a dime to learn and took no more time or effort than a phone call to find out what we needed to know.

Why learn from your own mistakes when you can learn from the mistakes of others?

 

[ATeam]

Pretty much a fact that the new fail at a much higher rate than the experienced.

Can you name a business of any kind where that is not true?

And about the averages, so what?

For any induvidual, far more important than how and what the masses do is how and what you do. If the failure rate for a brand new business person in any endeavor you care to name is say 90%, to me that is encouraging news. It means 10% succeed and that their method and activities can be learned and emulated.

According to the American Association of Medical Colleges, 91.3% of all medical school students graduate. That is a pretty good average. If we are going to play the averages, expediting is the wrong way to go. We should all be doctors!

 

[scottanhelen]

The prospective team in question is talking about beginning in a fleet owner's truck. Would not the fleet owner be the one to provide the knowledge of the freigtht centers and maintenance issues?

I am very concerned about how this is being presented to new people. Yes the fleet owner should be the one to provide the knowledge of the freight centers and maintenance issues. How ever this is not a magic bullet. There are owners out there that know very little about running the trucks. They relie on experenced drivers. I was going to switch companys once and was talking to a fleet owner who had 5 trucks. He never drove and worked a 9 to 5 job, and had not been a owner for long. Starting with a new company I would never have driven for him because he did not have the experence to help me know the new company. Also any one needs to be concerned with how stable the owner is in these troubled times, you would not want to be driving for some one who might be going out of busniss himselfe.

 

[davekc]

The prospective team in question is talking about beginning in a fleet owner's truck. Would not the fleet owner be the one to provide the knowledge of the freigtht centers and maintenance issues?

I am very concerned about how this is being presented to new people. Yes the fleet owner should be the one to provide the knowledge of the freight centers and maintenance issues. How ever this is not a magic bullet. There are owners out there that know very little about running the trucks. They relie on experenced drivers. I was going to switch companys once and was talking to a fleet owner who had 5 trucks. He never drove and worked a 9 to 5 job, and had not been a owner for long. Starting with a new company I would never have driven for him because he did not have the experence to help me know the new company. Also any one needs to be concerned with how stable the owner is in these troubled times, you would not want to be driving for some one who might be going out of busniss himselfe.

Couldn't have said it better myself. A whole lot of things go into mix. As you mentioned, not all fleet owners are the same.
In a turbulent economy, one must do as much as they can to minumize any of the risks.

 

[ATeam]

Couldn't have said it better myself. A whole lot of things go into mix. As you mentioned, not all fleet owners are the same.
In a turbulent economy, one must do as much as they can to minumize any of the risks.

Including the risk that slow freight may put a new strain on the fleet owner's books that will put the fleet owner under. Fleet owners are not accustomed to being asked about their solvency and it is a difficult question for drivers to ask. But it may be a good question to ask and something more than a verbal "of course I'm solvent" answer may be needed.

 

[scottanhelen]

Including the risk that slow freight may put a new strain on the fleet owner's books that will put the fleet owner under. Fleet owners are not accustomed to being asked about their solvency and it is a difficult question for drivers to ask. But it may be a good question to ask and something more than a verbal "of course I'm solvent" answer may be needed.

I would have to agree that this would be a very hard question to get a real good answer to. I do think you can look for some indicators thow. Like how long has the owner been doing this? Is the owner a driver? Has the owner ever driven? How many trucks does the owner have? Is this what the owner does for a living, or is this just a hobby? I would aslo like to see the owner have trucks with more than one carrier. This shows diversity and could help with stabilty. Also if one company goes out the owner could move his trucks to another company easer.

 

[davekc]

Have to agree. Reputation and references are going to get you fairly close. A gander through court records is another place that may provide some past history if any judgements are outstanding.

 

[ATeam]

It would be easier if fleet owners would be willing to subject themselves to the same background check they and their carriers subject their drivers to.

If you are looking for a way to screen predatory fleet owners out of the industry, or to protect drivers and carriers from financially weak fleet owners, subjecting them to driver initiated background checks would do the trick.

There are companies that do background checks for a fee. The fleet owner can sign the release, confidentiality can be assured (just as fleet owners now assure driver confidentiality) the driver can pay the fee, the company can provide a report to both the driver and the fleet owner. Drivers give up their information to fleet owners and carriers. Why not turn that around?

There might even be a business opportunity here. Someone who knows expediting could set up an information hub that aggregates information on fleet owners and drivers that agree to participate. Things like verified balance sheets, termination surveys, revenue history, driving records, criminal history, public record searches showing legal actions, and the like can be assembled into a driver profile and fleet owner profile. The information would be shared with drivers and fleet owners only after two of them pair up and agree to let each other have a peek.

A preliminary overview might be provided first that does not give away confidential information. If the driver and fleet owner that are interviewing each other see good reason to proceed, additional releases can be signed and more information can be shared.

Just a thought. (And no, I will not be the one to seize this new business opportunity.)

 

[davekc]

That actually isn't a bad idea. I only wonder if there are enough fleet owners that would participate? Is there enough in a total number? No clue how many there really are? The grey area in some might be when say a driver left, was it a fleet owner that caused the departure, or was it the carrier? Just a thought.
I think some owner scrutiny is a good thing That would eliminate a lot of folks that have no business in this industry.