OTR Big Truck O/O thinking about van expiditing..

[Don2554]

I'm a big truck O/O running with Landstar. For what it is, it's decent monies and I grossed over 100k last year. But.

Maintenance and truck payments combined to eat my lunch to the tune of over 70k. Just in maintenance and truck. And it's a recurring theme year after year. I make decent income but with high costs so I can never get ahead.

So I started reading about van expiditing.

It seems to me that the issues are the same except on a much smaller scale. The van cost less, repair bills are less...but the pay seems to be close to what I get. I get anywhere from 1.50 to 2.00 per mile with fsc(I actually get paid by the load but it brakes down to about that) . Break that out and minus the 35% that goes to Landstar I'm making about 1.00 to 1.20 per mile take home. From that almost 70% goes to maintenance and truck payments I'm lucky to be going home with 35 cents a mile.

But....

In a van, no more DOT(this is my biggest one). I can actually go to a restaurant besides Dennys or Huddle House. I can run in town to the dentist and not take a cab. A 200 mile dead head only takes 10 gallons of fuel and not 40. No more climbing in and out of 200° trailers to sweep them out. The freedom a van offers over a semi is really really apealing.

There does seem to be more down time but an expiditer makes his 2k run in 2 days not 4. If you only do 2 of those a week, you are doing more than me. My average week is only 2k-3k a week. I have seen where a lot of runs are much less, and that does seem to be the bane of expiditing, short loads.

Anyway, I'm rambling, trying to figure out if the move to a van would be worth it to me. I can handle living on the road, so I guess my main concern is if there is enough work out there to make a van payment, cover the maintenance costs and still have enough left over for me AND a savings account?

Thanks for any insights you may have on these subjects!

 

[danthewolf00]

Expect your level of comfort of living to change as a van has less room when loaded with feight than what your in now....when you mean big truck do you mean semi or straight truck?

 

[Don2554]

Expect your level of comfort of living to change as a van has less room when loaded with feight than what your in now....when you mean big truck do you mean semi or straight truck?

It's class 8 semi and I'm not one of those guys that hops in the bunk at every chance. I'm quite content sitting in my chair all day long even while on a 34. Though sleeping on a 2k mile trip with 3 pallets in the back does seem a bit daunting unless I can rig a floating bed over the load. The whole "Extended van so I can haul 3 skids" may just turn into extended van with bunk hauling 2 skids if I find I cant hang.

 

[xmudman]

Vanners don’t log, vanners don’t scale. Blah blah blah.

There are too many of us as it is, and some of the unscrupulous among us are racing to the bottom with rates. I struggled to get out of LA this week; finally went to Oregon for 75c

I think you ought to look at straight trucks if you’re tired of bendy ones. The pay’s better and the trucks are 25’ shorter


Sent from my iPhone using EO Forums

 

[BigStickJr]

Oregon?
Isn’t that jumping from the Frying pan into the fire ?

 

[xmudman]

Oregon?
Isn’t that jumping from the Frying pan into the fire ?

Maybe, but it beats deadheading somewhere....

Sent from my LG-M150 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[Treadmill]

I'm a big truck O/O running with Landstar. For what it is, it's decent monies and I grossed over 100k last year. But.

Maintenance and truck payments combined to eat my lunch to the tune of over 70k. Just in maintenance and truck. And it's a recurring theme year after year. I make decent income but with high costs so I can never get ahead.

So I started reading about van expiditing.

It seems to me that the issues are the same except on a much smaller scale. The van cost less, repair bills are less...but the pay seems to be close to what I get. I get anywhere from 1.50 to 2.00 per mile with fsc(I actually get paid by the load but it brakes down to about that) . Break that out and minus the 35% that goes to Landstar I'm making about 1.00 to 1.20 per mile take home. From that almost 70% goes to maintenance and truck payments I'm lucky to be going home with 35 cents a mile.

But....

In a van, no more DOT(this is my biggest one). I can actually go to a restaurant besides Dennys or Huddle House. I can run in town to the dentist and not take a cab. A 200 mile dead head only takes 10 gallons of fuel and not 40. No more climbing in and out of 200° trailers to sweep them out. The freedom a van offers over a semi is really really apealing.

There does seem to be more down time but an expiditer makes his 2k run in 2 days not 4. If you only do 2 of those a week, you are doing more than me. My average week is only 2k-3k a week. I have seen where a lot of runs are much less, and that does seem to be the bane of expiditing, short loads.

Anyway, I'm rambling, trying to figure out if the move to a van would be worth it to me. I can handle living on the road, so I guess my main concern is if there is enough work out there to make a van payment, cover the maintenance costs and still have enough left over for me AND a savings account?

Thanks for any insights you may have on these subjects!

I think expecting 2-3k a week is kinda on the high side. Don’t expect to get that amount every week. I always tell new ones that inany given 4 week month there are going to be 1bad week, 1 good week and 2 average weeks and not particularly in that order. Depending who you drive for will the numbers will be different but the formula stays the same. The carrier you wish to run for depends on how much you make. I noticed you are with Landstar. Do you plan on going with them or somebody else. The reason I ask is I was at one time with LEA and after 9+ yrs with them I left for my current carrier. Work back then was still good but I have heard recently from a few BCO’s that it’s a struggle to compete for bid board loads. Hopefully you make the right choice. Oh by the way don’t expect 2000 mile runs as normal. They are not the norm. Expect 200 - 500 mi runs.

 

[Don2554]

I think expecting 2-3k a week is kinda on the high side. Don’t expect to get that amount every week. I always tell new ones that inany given 4 week month there are going to be 1bad week, 1 good week and 2 average weeks and not particularly in that order. Depending who you drive for will the numbers will be different but the formula stays the same. The carrier you wish to run for depends on how much you make. I noticed you are with Landstar. Do you plan on going with them or somebody else. The reason I ask is I was at one time with LEA and after 9+ yrs with them I left for my current carrier. Work back then was still good but I have heard recently from a few BCO’s that it’s a struggle to compete for bid board loads. Hopefully you make the right choice. Oh by the way don’t expect 2000 mile runs as normal. They are not the norm. Expect 200 - 500 mi runs.

Load board is the cheap/left overs listings. Agents have a list of their regulars and will shoot them the best offers first before throwing a load on the board. But just for giggles, I looked up all freight under 4000lbs. Out of 27k listings, 5 loads total under expiditing. 2 going to Canada both originating in Michigan and the other 3 scatered across the US. So, no, I don't think Landstar caters to Vans. I even called driver services to inquire and they told me Yes we have van expiditers but I asked about why only 5 loads she could not give me an answer. So I'm guessing it's kinda like I said, you have to be tight with an agent that will look out for you or you may just starve!

And the 2k+miles a week was more of a talking point. What I think I'm finding is its much cheaper to operate a van (equipment costs, matainence, fuel, everything) than a big truck, but there is a lot more down time limiting the total revenue you are allowed to make.

One other question I have for anyone out there...If you load up with 3 tall pallets on a long run, where/how do you sleep?

 

[Treadmill]

I think expecting 2-3k a week is kinda on the high side. Don’t expect to get that amount every week. I always tell new ones that inany given 4 week month there are going to be 1bad week, 1 good week and 2 average weeks and not particularly in that order. Depending who you drive for will the numbers will be different but the formula stays the same. The carrier you wish to run for depends on how much you make. I noticed you are with Landstar. Do you plan on going with them or somebody else. The reason I ask is I was at one time with LEA and after 9+ yrs with them I left for my current carrier. Work back then was still good but I have heard recently from a few BCO’s that it’s a struggle to compete for bid board loads. Hopefully you make the right choice. Oh by the way don’t expect 2000 mile runs as normal. They are not the norm. Expect 200 - 500 mi runs.

Load board is the cheap/left overs listings. Agents have a list of their regulars and will shoot them the best offers first before throwing a load on the board. But just for giggles, I looked up all freight under 4000lbs. Out of 27k listings, 5 loads total under expiditing. 2 going to Canada both originating in Michigan and the other 3 scatered across the US. So, no, I don't think Landstar caters to Vans. I even called driver services to inquire and they told me Yes we have van expiditers but I asked about why only 5 loads she could not give me an answer. So I'm guessing it's kinda like I said, you have to be tight with an agent that will look out for you or you may just starve!

And the 2k+miles a week was more of a talking point. What I think I'm finding is its much cheaper to operate a van (equipment costs, matainence, fuel, everything) than a big truck, but there is a lot more down time limiting the total revenue you are allowed to make.

One other question I have for anyone out there...If you load up with 3 tall pallets on a long run, where/how do you sleep?

In a bed. Lol.

 

[Greg]

Load board is the cheap/left overs listings. Agents have a list of their regulars and will shoot them the best offers first before throwing a load on the board. But just for giggles, I looked up all freight under 4000lbs. Out of 27k listings, 5 loads total under expiditing. 2 going to Canada both originating in Michigan and the other 3 scatered across the US. So, no, I don't think Landstar caters to Vans. I even called driver services to inquire and they told me Yes we have van expiditers but I asked about why only 5 loads she could not give me an answer. So I'm guessing it's kinda like I said, you have to be tight with an agent that will look out for you or you may just starve!

And the 2k+miles a week was more of a talking point. What I think I'm finding is its much cheaper to operate a van (equipment costs, matainence, fuel, everything) than a big truck, but there is a lot more down time limiting the total revenue you are allowed to make.

One other question I have for anyone out there...If you load up with 3 tall pallets on a long run, where/how do you sleep?

Since you have firsthand knowledge of the loadboard, you already know what is there. I will say, as a straight truck at Landstar, there are many more loads for Expediters than will ever see a loadboard. The express agents do not have time to wait on a loadboard posting. Express agents call with offers rather than post loads to the board. That being said, I have no idea of what van opportunities exist here, but straights can stay as busy as they want to be this year so far.

 

[FlyingVan]

I've done it all, started with a TT, got into a van, now in a straight. Right now I believe the straight is the happy medium.

With the TT I was too much restricted to the truck stops. With the van I made very good money before everybody and their mother bought a van. With the straight I run as much as I want, decent rates, not as restricted as the TT, I seem to squeeze it in more places where TT can't fit. But the best benefit of the straight vs. van is that I am more rested now. The hour of service that most people see as a downside, I see it as a positive. I am not interested in ever doing 900+ miles straight through. 550 miles is good enough, then I am going to sleep.

 

[RoadTime]

I would agree with the straight truck option for 1st choice. Your perks listed for the van make sense and are a definite plus. Although, finding yourself in a place like Laredo with 100 other vans trying for the same load, may make you wish you hadn't. Especially when the low ball rate war is on

I guess my main concern is if there is enough work out there to make a van payment, cover the maintenance costs and still have enough left over for me AND a savings account?

Lot of factors go into that, so it's hard to say. But If you can eliminate one thing, don't have a van payment. Pay cash if you can. And for pete's sake, don't run out and buy a new Sprinter type van before you know what your getting into. Even then I personally would never buy new. There's plenty of former wannabe expedite vans to choose from

One other question I have for anyone out there...If you load up with 3 tall pallets on a long run, where/how do you sleep?

Ahh, creative sleeping. I don't do this anymore as I find a permanent bed with storage and 2 skids suits me much better.

Other options include (if possible) sleep on top of the freight, squeeze in a tight gap on the floor, the drivers seat, a board type set up across the front seats. If you have enough space between the freight and your seats you may have enough room there. Also could make a small fold up bed there. Motel (if time permits), not sleeping is the worse option.

 

[Don2554]

Since you have firsthand knowledge of the loadboard, you already know what is there. I will say, as a straight truck at Landstar, there are many more loads for Expediters than will ever see a loadboard. The express agents do not have time to wait on a loadboard posting. Express agents call with offers rather than post loads to the board. That being said, I have no idea of what van opportunities exist here, but straights can stay as busy as they want to be this year so far.

Yep, thats kinda how I figured it worked.

 

[Don2554]

I've done it all, started with a TT, got into a van, now in a straight. Right now I believe the straight is the happy medium.

With the TT I was too much restricted to the truck stops. With the van I made very good money before everybody and their mother bought a van. With the straight I run as much as I want, decent rates, not as restricted as the TT, I seem to squeeze it in more places where TT can't fit. But the best benefit of the straight vs. van is that I am more rested now. The hour of service that most people see as a downside, I see it as a positive. I am not interested in ever doing 900+ miles straight through. 550 miles is good enough, then I am going to sleep.

Not getting enough sleeps is a big concern for me. I mean, I could easily run a 1000 miles non stop if I'm well rested. I just ran 721 yesterday in my TT before I ran out of hours on the clock and I was good to go for many more if I could. But such are the restrictions on CDL drivers. But after that many miles/hours. I'm going to need more than just a cat nap.

Do they build in enough hours on longer runs to actually get in, say 6-7hrs sleep?

 

[Don2554]

I would agree with the straight truck option for 1st choice. Your perks listed for the van make sense and are a definite plus. Although, finding yourself in a place like Laredo with 100 other vans trying for the same load, may make you wish you hadn't. Especially when the low ball rate war is on

Why would you not just d/h up to San Antonio, Houston or Dallas when it's that bad? I mean, for me, this load I'm on I had a 200 mile d/h cause it paid me over $500 more than the stuff I was seeing where I was...that's about $100 in fuel cost to make $400 more.

Or do expidite runs only come from cross boarder locations in Texas??

Lot of factors go into that, so it's hard to say. But If you can eliminate one thing, don't have a van payment. Pay cash if you can. And for pete's sake, don't run out and buy a new Sprinter type van before you know what your getting into. Even then I personally would never buy new. There's plenty of former wannabe expedite vans to choose from

I'm not sure I get this. Why not buy new, with a warranty for parts/labor no milage restriction rather than a vehicle that already has over 100k on it. Isn't that Like buying someone else's problems? Or do they sell warranties on used vans with these kind of miles?

I get the idea of no payment, as that is where your profit resides, but the horror stories about blown engines and transmissions makes me really want that warranty when just starting out in the business.

Don't get me wrong, I could pay cash for a new van, but why would I tie up my capitol like that especially when first starting out?

These are not rebuttal questions but ones I really would like a reasoned response to so I can make a better decision.

Ahh, creative sleeping. I don't do this anymore as I find a permanent bed with storage and 2 skids suits me much better.

Other options include (if possible) sleep on top of the freight, squeeze in a tight gap on the floor, the drivers seat, a board type set up across the front seats. If you have enough space between the freight and your seats you may have enough room there. Also could make a small fold up bed there. Motel (if time permits), not sleeping is the worse option.

Is limiting myself to only 2 skids wise when first starting out?

I was thinking of removing the passenger seat for a fridge and microwave...but could temp move them into the drivers seat and maybe sleep with my head over there and my feet going behind the drivers seat at an angle?? Is there enough room behind the drivers seat when you have 3 pallets loaded?

Does anyone else do this??


Thanks for your replies and helpful suggestions!

 

[BigStickJr]

Oregon?
Isn’t that jumping from the Frying pan into the fire ?

Maybe, but it beats deadheading somewhere....

Sent from my LG-M150 using EO Forums mobile app

Yeah, the deadhead out of Oregon will suck more.

Hope it doesn’t come to that.

 

[Spedz13]

Hey Don not that anyone ever listens to me but your best bet is get a Straight and stay at Landstar. I know of at least 3 STs at Landstar that are on this forum that can give you better information then I. I am only about to start at Landstar so I have no first hand information but I can tell you from the information that I have gathered and have been reading etc. Landstar has the best rates and the most freight for Straight Trucks. I can say I went from a 18 wheeler to a van and I couldn't handle the size of it I was way to cramped I am use to being able to stretch out when I need to sleep vs being cramped in a tin can. I didnt have a bunk I was sleeping on a board across the front seats or over the skids. So I went and started at Fed Ex CC in a Straight Truck. Talk about the best of both worlds brother. I had the room I needed for my big old fat butt and as far as DOT very few times would I even have to be scaled and when I did go into scales they green light you out. Ya u have to be ELD and people think that sucks but if your already doing it anyway whats the difference. As far as the money goes you will make more in a ST and not have to kill yourself doing it either. But then again opinions are like ***holes everyone has one. JMHO from a Hick in Ky

Sorry if I rambled and if I misspelled anything (I get flak every time I write on these forums over these 2 things LOL)

 

[RoadTime]

Why would you not just d/h up to San Antonio, Houston or Dallas when it's that bad?

You could, and might have to. It was more of an example of how oversaturated the van market is.
Overall, Texas is not the greatest place you want to be for freight.

Why not buy new

You could, it's up to you. Many do and are successful, and many end up being repro'd when expected income is not what they thought.

Just know your numbers before jumping in.

As far as my own reasons...

For standard van depreciation, in general, will lose about 15 to 20 percent of their value each year.
Consider this: The moment you drive your new van off the lot, it will depreciate by as much as 11 percent of its value.

I'd rather have someone else take this hit

I get the idea of no payment, as that is where your profit resides, but the horror stories about blown engines and transmissions makes me really want that warranty when just starting out in the business.

Unless you get a real lemon, most warranties will be long expired by the time these things may happen. Due to the lovely clause of "which ever happens first".
My expediter math calculator says the warranty will be void between 6 months and 1 1/2 years based on mileage.

Typical examples:




Sprinter Warranty

Is limiting myself to only 2 skids wise when first starting out?

Cases can be made for both 2 or 3 skids. Having tracked my own skid tallies for years. For me, 3 skid loads are more of the exception then the norm. Besides the additional wear and tear from additional weight, I chose comfort.
I have not noticed any significant difference going to 2 skids. besides less aggravation, and have no plans to go back

 

[Treadmill]

I think expecting 2-3k a week is kinda on the high side. Don’t expect to get that amount every week. I always tell new ones that inany given 4 week month there are going to be 1bad week, 1 good week and 2 average weeks and not particularly in that order. Depending who you drive for will the numbers will be different but the formula stays the same. The carrier you wish to run for depends on how much you make. I noticed you are with Landstar. Do you plan on going with them or somebody else. The reason I ask is I was at one time with LEA and after 9+ yrs with them I left for my current carrier. Work back then was still good but I have heard recently from a few BCO’s that it’s a struggle to compete for bid board loads. Hopefully you make the right choice. Oh by the way don’t expect 2000 mile runs as normal. They are not the norm. Expect 200 - 500 mi runs.

Load board is the cheap/left overs listings. Agents have a list of their regulars and will shoot them the best offers first before throwing a load on the board. But just for giggles, I looked up all freight under 4000lbs. Out of 27k listings, 5 loads total under expiditing. 2 going to Canada both originating in Michigan and the other 3 scatered across the US. So, no, I don't think Landstar caters to Vans. I even called driver services to inquire and they told me Yes we have van expiditers but I asked about why only 5 loads she could not give me an answer. So I'm guessing it's kinda like I said, you have to be tight with an agent that will look out for you or you may just starve!

And the 2k+miles a week was more of a talking point. What I think I'm finding is its much cheaper to operate a van (equipment costs, matainence, fuel, everything) than a big truck, but there is a lot more down time limiting the total revenue you are allowed to make.

One other question I have for anyone out there...If you load up with 3 tall pallets on a long run, where/how do you sleep?

If you are talking about LEA and then the majority of loads would come from ok the express agents and not the Ranger or Inway agents. I have a buddy that is leased on with LEA and he is constantly sitting at home waiting for the call. He uses the load board for some loads but most of his loads come from the agents. Now when I was at LEA 99% of my loads came from the agents. Why did I leave? Because I was needed at home more on a constant basis. I make the same money or more now than I did at LEA.

 

[Don2554]

Hey Don not that anyone ever listens to me but your best bet is get a Straight and stay at Landstar. I know of at least 3 STs at Landstar that are on this forum that can give you better information then I. I am only about to start at Landstar so I have no first hand information but I can tell you from the information that I have gathered and have been reading etc. Landstar has the best rates and the most freight for Straight Trucks. I can say I went from a 18 wheeler to a van and I couldn't handle the size of it I was way to cramped I am use to being able to stretch out when I need to sleep vs being cramped in a tin can. I didnt have a bunk I was sleeping on a board across the front seats or over the skids. So I went and started at Fed Ex CC in a Straight Truck. Talk about the best of both worlds brother. I had the room I needed for my big old fat butt and as far as DOT very few times would I even have to be scaled and when I did go into scales they green light you out. Ya u have to be ELD and people think that sucks but if your already doing it anyway whats the difference. As far as the money goes you will make more in a ST and not have to kill yourself doing it either. But then again opinions are like ***holes everyone has one. JMHO from a Hick in Ky

Sorry if I rambled and if I misspelled anything (I get flak every time I write on these forums over these 2 things LOL)

Well, if I go ST still have to deal with all the rest of the dot crap...like that damn Cpap machine..LoL...and all the other stuff you do to keep up your cdl.

Also, I'm seeing debate between solo vs team on a ST...can you make the money solo or are you very limited?

And what about the much higher cost for the ST, maintenance, etc vs. A van.

Seems they both have plus and minus columns.