On Spot Automatic Chains

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
For those of you with Freightliners and wide base singles who have tried to get Onspot Automatic Chains you know this has been a problem.

The throwing arm could not clear the brake chamber and throw the chains correctly. We have had our truck at Onspot twice in the past few months and they believe they have this problem solved and we have the chains installed on the truck.

We are going to run with the chain head until the Expo to make sure the assembly will handle the rigors of the road. After the Expo we will take the chain head off until winter.

Danny Graham, Regional Manager will be in booth 204 along the wall at the Expedite Expo 2011 to demonstrate the chains. I hope you will stop by and talk to Danny and will take the time to check out our chains on the truck.

After six years of trying to get chains we are pretty excited about this.
 

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Monty

Expert Expediter
Why do you need chains in the first place?

Ever read the back of that sign? "Driver, go to bed, it's dangerous out here. It'll be better tomorrow"

In over 41+ years of trucking, I have NEVER installed chains. If the road is that bad, I don't need to be out there. Period.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
How many times over the years have we pulled of a nice clear interstate to pull into a truck stop that is covered in ice?

How many times in a straight truck have we backed into a icy dock to have our drives slipping and skidding around to try and get out of the dock area?

How many times have we seen the chain law in affect when the roads are wet and no snow to be seen?

How many times have we tried to deliver to a customer and the roads going in and out are covered in snow or ice?

In all of those situations we would never put chains on the truck and we slip and slide all over taking a chance on damaging our truck or tearing something up. Now with a push of a button we can deploy our "insurance" and have the little bit of more traction we need. To prevent one accident and the downtime is worth it to us to have the chains.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
They are good things to have but this is one thing that professional driving doesn't mean pushing forward when conditions are bad.

How many times over the years have we pulled of a nice clear interstate to pull into a truck stop that is covered in ice?

Never.

I find snow is the biggest issue but that is tackled with driving slow and steady while being cautious. I got snowed in at the Erie Pilot a few years back while everyone needed to get out, I just went out of service and waited.

How many times in a straight truck have we backed into a icy dock to have our drives slipping and skidding around to try and get out of the dock area?

If the dock area is icy, the pick up or delivery waits until either they put something down to get rid of the ice or it melts - nothing like slipping on the ice and spending a few days in the hospital for a stupid load. This is not the driver's problem, it is the company's problem where you are picking up or delivering. There are regulations about workplace safety that they have to abide by and I bet they put salt down for the sidewalks and drives so it is a no brainer to me - no safe place to drive, no truck in dock. AND yes I have refused a load while I was sitting in the dock area for this very reason.

How many times have we seen the chain law in affect when the roads are wet and no snow to be seen?

Well once. I drove two miles and almost got stuck in the snow. The chains were on but no reason for them until I hit the snow.

How many times have we tried to deliver to a customer and the roads going in and out are covered in snow or ice?

Again I would tell the company that conditions are too bad for me to continue and invoke the part of my contract where it says I can stop the truck for things out of my control, like weather. FedEx has it in their contract, I have it in mine and most everyone else has it in theirs.

Sorry to criticize but professionalism isn't getting to the pickup or delivery at all costs, it is where a person knows the limitations of the truck and themselves while at the same time not taking chances like sliding down the ramp at a dock or getting out of the truck only to slip on the ice and breaking their tail bone.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Those automatic chains are one of the "toys" I wish I could afford.

I won't "chain up" and drive INTO a problem but those would make it really nice for that unexpected get you out of a jam problem. With some states required two sets of chains that would also cut down on a LOT of weight.
 

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
They are good things to have but this is one thing that professional driving doesn't mean pushing forward when conditions are bad.



Never.

I find snow is the biggest issue but that is tackled with driving slow and steady while being cautious. I got snowed in at the Erie Pilot a few years back while everyone needed to get out, I just went out of service and waited.



If the dock area is icy, the pick up or delivery waits until either they put something down to get rid of the ice or it melts - nothing like slipping on the ice and spending a few days in the hospital for a stupid load. This is not the driver's problem, it is the company's problem where you are picking up or delivering. There are regulations about workplace safety that they have to abide by and I bet they put salt down for the sidewalks and drives so it is a no brainer to me - no safe place to drive, no truck in dock. AND yes I have refused a load while I was sitting in the dock area for this very reason.



Well once. I drove two miles and almost got stuck in the snow. The chains were on but no reason for them until I hit the snow.



Again I would tell the company that conditions are too bad for me to continue and invoke the part of my contract where it says I can stop the truck for things out of my control, like weather. FedEx has it in their contract, I have it in mine and most everyone else has it in theirs.

Sorry to criticize but professionalism isn't getting to the pickup or delivery at all costs, it is where a person knows the limitations of the truck and themselves while at the same time not taking chances like sliding down the ramp at a dock or getting out of the truck only to slip on the ice and breaking their tail bone.

Greg, really?

Obviously, you run your business differently than they do. I recall many times getting stuck in a nasty storm. I would have loved to have the option to drop the chains to get to safety or down the road further where it was clear.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Lawrence,
For as much bad weather I have driven in, I have yet to not to drive without some pre-planning involved in-route. We are supposed to be professionals, and for a lack of a better term, there are unexpected events that we face where we have to make snap decisions to get safely out of but nevertheless we need to be professional not for us but others around us.

The idea of automatic chains is great for a convenient way to get off the road safely but the examples Linda/Bob gave are ones that need a bit more caution, a bit more forethought and something we should avoid by understanding there should always be limits to what we do.

The biggest issue I see, and many criticize me for speaking up about this, is the obtuse idea that the load has to be delivered regardless what the conditions are.

Many don't think about the chance they take endangering others while they strive to make it through conditions where they should have parked instead. A cowboy mentality we all see on the road when that truck passes us doing 75 in a heavy rain. Others seem to be worried about what the company/customer/owner thinks or going to say when they are faced with conditions beyond their capacity and have to stop.

Regardless, you can't oppose safety first over convenience, can you?
 

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
Safety first - that is just what the chains do. :)

On a lighter note - what would happen if we adopted this quote from the Greek historian, Herodotus:

"Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays these courageous couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds"

"He said this during the war between the Greeks and Persians about 500 B.C. in reference to the Persian mounted postal couriers whom he observed and held in high esteem." wiki
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
They are good things to have but this is one thing that professional driving doesn't mean pushing forward when conditions are bad.



Never.

I find snow is the biggest issue but that is tackled with driving slow and steady while being cautious. I got snowed in at the Erie Pilot a few years back while everyone needed to get out, I just went out of service and waited.



If the dock area is icy, the pick up or delivery waits until either they put something down to get rid of the ice or it melts - nothing like slipping on the ice and spending a few days in the hospital for a stupid load. This is not the driver's problem, it is the company's problem where you are picking up or delivering. There are regulations about workplace safety that they have to abide by and I bet they put salt down for the sidewalks and drives so it is a no brainer to me - no safe place to drive, no truck in dock. AND yes I have refused a load while I was sitting in the dock area for this very reason.



Well once. I drove two miles and almost got stuck in the snow. The chains were on but no reason for them until I hit the snow.



Again I would tell the company that conditions are too bad for me to continue and invoke the part of my contract where it says I can stop the truck for things out of my control, like weather. FedEx has it in their contract, I have it in mine and most everyone else has it in theirs.

Sorry to criticize but professionalism isn't getting to the pickup or delivery at all costs, it is where a person knows the limitations of the truck and themselves while at the same time not taking chances like sliding down the ramp at a dock or getting out of the truck only to slip on the ice and breaking their tail bone.
I was going to answer this post point by point but suffice it to say you must drive a school bus. Won't walk on untreated icy parking lots. :rolleyes:

I now understand how you have enough time to have almost 17,000 posts.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
How many times over the years have we pulled of a nice clear interstate to pull into a truck stop that is covered in ice?

In eight years of driving straight trucks, it has never happened that we did that. It happened once that we pulled into a chicken coop (scale) parking area that was ice covered, like a skating rink, but that did not impede our ability to drive in or out. We just went slow.

How many times in a straight truck have we backed into a icy dock to have our drives slipping and skidding around to try and get out of the dock area?

Twice; once in a fleet owner's truck and once in our present truck. The fleet owner's truck had a single drive axle and lift axle. We got out of the snow and ice coated downhill dock by raising the lift axle which put more weight on the drive axle. It also helped that heavy freight happened to be loaded onto the truck at that pick up.

Our present truck has two drive axles with eight snow tires, and interlock and traction control. One time in the five years we have driven this truck, the interlock was switched on to drive easily up and out of an icy dock.

How many times have we seen the chain law in affect when the roads are wet and no snow to be seen?

Once, which is the first and only time we chained up in eight years. This was at Donner Pass. We drove at least 30 miles with chains on. There was another time, also at Donner Pass, where we started to chain up but the chain requirement was lifted before I finished the second wheel.

How many times have we tried to deliver to a customer and the roads going in and out are covered in snow or ice?

Many times but chaining up would not have made a difference. We got in and out just the same.

In all of those situations we would never put chains on the truck and we slip and slide all over taking a chance on damaging our truck or tearing something up.

We have never once slipped or slid all over with any truck.

I cannot recall a single instance where Diane or I broke traction such that we were not in control of the truck, even for an instant. There have been a few times where one rear wheel will spin while going around a corner, like when coming out of a driveway or parking lot. That spin lasted less than a second. If we had Onspot tire chains then, they would hot have been deployed because the spin was over as fast as it began.

Talking about damaging something or tearing something up, Diane and I were once called in on a rescue load because a driver in a straight truck equipped with automatic tire chains failed to properly gauge its ground clearance. The device caught the lip of an inspection pit at a military base and was damaged such that the truck could not be driven until the damage was repaired.

After picking up the load, we drove by that parked truck with freight on board that paid us more than the automatic tire chains cost (presuming that Onspot automatic tire chains cost less than several thousand dollars). The other truck was charged with a service failure because of the long delay in bringing a second truck (us) in.

Now with a push of a button we can deploy our "insurance" and have the little bit of more traction we need. To prevent one accident and the downtime is worth it to us to have the chains.

We have considered and decided against OnSpot chains.

How much do they cost?

How many miles must you drive to have them installed?

How much down time is involved in the trip to and time at the installation facility?

How much weight do they add to the truck?

How much wind drag do they add to the truck?

Once they are installed, how many days a year do you carry that weight and wind drag?

How many times have drivers who have these chains on their trucks seen them fail? (We know of a couple.).

What kind of maintenance do they require?

How often might it happen that they get in the way of you or a mechanic who is working on something else at or near where the devices are installed?

Given the snow and ice experiences we have had and not had, we simply cannot justify such a purchase.

Now, on the positive side, our mutual friend Jack Dixon has Onspot automatic tire chains on his truck. He lives in the Bay Area and drives over Donner Pass and other mountain passes in the western states many times a year. Flipping a switch and staying warm and dry in the comfort of your cab while continuing your trip over a mountain pass is obviously preferable to stopping, getting out in the weather and chianing up.

If we did that a lot, we could justify such a purchase, but we don't so we can't.

Also on the positive side, in winter driving conditions, we have passed hundreds of big rigs over the years that were parked on an uphill grade or even stuck in the middle of the freeway because they broke traction and got stuck going up a snow-covered or ice-covered hill. I am certain that every one of those stuck drivers would have loved to have Onspot chains on their trucks at the time.

But we drive a straight truck that does not lose traction where big rigs do (especially tractors with one drive axle pulling doubles). Since no problem exists, there is no need to purchase something to resolve it.

For us, buying Onspot automatic tire chains as insurance would be like buying homeowner's insurance to cover property we do not own. While we dislike winter driving as much as many drivers (actually, I hate winter so much -- the season more so than the driving -- that we bought a Florida vacation home to avoid as much of it as we can afford), there is no peace of mind to be gained from Onspot chains. When it comes to chaining up in winter driving conditions, we have peace of mind now.

Once I learned how to properly chain up a truck and practiced it a couple times, and then did it for real one time with no problem (except the need to stop and the labor to put the chains on and off), my fear of the unknown went away. It is now a source of professional pride that I can properly chain up if necessary. It is also my hope that it will never again be necessary, but if it happens, it happens.
 
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TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
I do not where you guys are seeing trucks stops not covered in ice in the winter when the interstates are clear. When I did not know any better I managed to get us stuck in one of them and Bob had to get the chains, lay them out so I could gain traction to get out of the rut I created. For those who do not want to use chains when parking on a ice covered lot, when you park wait a bit then pull forward some to get out of rut hot tires create. When I parked and set the parking brake my hot tires melted the ice perfectly and it was to icy to get out of the little rut I created.

We have over the past years talked with many drivers who have the chains and when and why they use them. For us the chains made sense and we now have them.

The chains do not have to make sense for everyone and to each his own. I like knowing that I can deploy the chains and not have to go through standing beside the road in the blowing snow putting chains on.

I have not talked with anyone who has the chains who wishes they did not have them. They do require maintenance just the same as the truck.

I consider the chains a form of insurance and in reality I hope they never have to be deployed.

I appreciated all On Spot has gone through to make sure chains will work on our truck. They are great guys to work with and they stand behind their product.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I do not where you guys are seeing trucks stops not covered in ice in the winter when the interstates are clear.

I see now that I misread and misunderstood your question. To amend my answer, it has happened many times that we have pulled into a truck stop off a clear interstate and found the truck stop lot to be not clear.

But it has rarely happened that no plowing at all has happened at the truck stop so we have been able to get in and out. And it has never happened that we got stuck or slipped around such that tire chains would have made any difference at all in parking lots of any kind. We have always been able to drive in and out of non-cleared or ice-covered parking lots without chains.

The worst winter incident we had, not at a truck stop but at a restaurant where overnight truck parking was provided for, was the time we woke to sub-zero weather and frozen brakes. That happened because I forgot to dry the brakes before parking the night before. I got us moving by crawling under the truck and tapping the frozen brake shoes loose. It was not a tire chain issue.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I see now that I misread and misunderstood your question. To amend my answer, it has happened many times that we have pulled into a truck stop off a clear interstate and found the truck stop lot to be not clear.

But it has rarely happened that no plowing at all has happened at the truck stop so we have been able to get in and out. And it has never happened that we got stuck or slipped around such that tire chains would have made any difference at all in parking lots of any kind. We have always been able to drive in and out of non-cleared or ice-covered parking lots without chains.

The worst winter incident we had, not at a truck stop but at a restaurant where overnight truck parking was provided for, was the time we woke to sub-zero weather and frozen brakes. That happened because I forgot to dry the brakes before parking the night before. I got us moving by crawling under the truck and tapping the frozen brake shoes loose. It was not a tire chain issue.

We have had to lay our chains down in front of our tires in a truck stop lot, once. It was at the Pilot in Brooks, KY. Ice everywhere and 33. A fine sheet of water on an uneven ice sheet. Automatic chains would have been nice that day. My hands were numb and sore once I finally got moving and got the chains taken care of. I hung them over load bars in the box and run the temp up to 70 for a few hours until they dried out. I don't like putting them away wet.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Keep in mind that we have twin screws (two drive axles) on our truck 34,000 lbs. curb weight truck. That make make a difference and perhaps explain how we have avoided the ice and snow situations described above. Our Volvo has been great in ice and snow.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Keep in mind that we have twin screws (two drive axles) on our truck 34,000 lbs. curb weight truck. That make make a difference and perhaps explain how we have avoided the ice and snow situations described above. Our Volvo has been great in ice and snow.


We are 30,000 curb weight but single screw. We do have a locking diff. That was the only time we have had a problem. It was hard on the hands for sure.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
We like the others carry chains but never use them. Can't say we have had a truck stuck either, but there is a first time for everything. Not sure auto chains would be in our future.
With the abundance of freight, I think it makes more sense to take freight where chains aren't even needed.
 

ts675

Seasoned Expediter
Those seem like a great "insurance policy" to have. Can I ask what they cost? I find it quite humorous on this board that most of the time when someone tries to share ideas, that there is always someone who blasts them and makes it sound like his idea is the end all of ideas. I personally don't care if you like/use chains, but I sure appreciate when people post gadgets that might be helpful.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 
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scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I agree with TS.
Team Caffee, how dare you share your ideas with those of us who don't have/never had the need of these, thus they must not be needed.
Signed,
Angry Trucker :p
 
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