On duty time includes waiting to be dispatched.

bubblehead · Jan 30, 2010

According to J. J. Keller and Associates "Hours of Service A Driver's Guide" Second Edition, page 8. "On-duty time includes time spent: Waiting to be dispatched...."

Is this why Carriers say no forced dispatch? Does this get around the "waiting" as counting against your hours? And if so, why would a carrier keep track of refusals? Does anyone in this forum have first hand knowlege pertaining to this subject. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

OntarioVanMan · Jan 30, 2010

Touchy subject since we are supposed to be self employed...

But some carriers expect a certain level of productivity out of their contractors..why should a carrier invest the time and effort into load procurement only for that contractor to refuse it? That contractor is of NO use to that carrier...

layoutshooter · Jan 30, 2010

I don't ever count time in between runs as "on duty". That would be silly in many cases. Like the 81 hours in L.A.. If that were the case we would have had to done a 34 hour reset without ever starting the truck engine.

bubblehead · Jan 30, 2010

layoutshooter said:
I don't ever count time in between runs as "on duty". That would be silly in many cases. Like the 81 hours in L.A.. If that were the case we would have had to done a 34 hour reset without ever starting the truck engine.

Agreed, we don't either. And I think that is why the Carriers use the no forced dispatch in their contracts. But I wonder why they still keep track of refusals. Should a class 8 T-val truck get hit with a refusal because they turned down a .68 pm which is obviously less than their operating cost. I think the fact that you are not forced to be dispatched allows a legal way around that rule because you don't really have to "wait" for a load. Which makes sense. But back to my question, anything short of paying an attorney for an opinion letter, I am not having any luck on finding out what the real meaning is on this particular rule. Am I in violation? With CSA 2010 lurking. Have I falsified my logs? Just wondering.

layoutshooter · Jan 30, 2010

I am in the sleeper or off duty at all times when not truly working or driving. I have no idea what DOT REALLY thinks about it. Don't really worry about it either.

x06col · Jan 30, 2010

IF, your concerns truly are if you are running legal in face of the 2010 thing, I don't believe i'd be looking at what J.J. Keller has to say. You may want to read thru the FMSCA "lil green book" your carrier gave you.

A sure fix tho to ease your mind, would be to git a room between loads. And keep the reciept.

guido4475 · Jan 30, 2010

bubblehead said:
Agreed, we don't either. And I think that is why the Carriers use the no forced dispatch in their contracts. But I wonder why they still keep track of refusals. Should a class 8 T-val truck get hit with a refusal because they turned down a .68 pm which is obviously less than their operating cost. I think the fact that you are not forced to be dispatched allows a legal way around that rule because you don't really have to "wait" for a load. Which makes sense. But back to my question, anything short of paying an attorney for an opinion letter, I am not having any luck on finding out what the real meaning is on this particular rule. Am I in violation? With CSA 2010 lurking. Have I falsified my logs? Just wondering.

This may be none of my business, but please don't tell me they offered you a .68 cpm load in a White Glove truck.

bubblehead · Jan 30, 2010

guido4475 said:
This may be none of my business, but please don't tell me they offered you a .68 cpm load in a White Glove truck.

No not me, I am a straight truck...lowest offer I got I believe was .42 pm. Got a call from a T-Val friend that told me about their offer. I have a copy of the regs...given to me by an Oregon DOT Officer...the problem is it seems even they are not sure, which makes us all at the mercy of their moods. I did get a hos violation by a Maryland Dot only to find out a few weeks later that I wasn't in violation. Seems DOT is a lot like the IRS in that they don't understand their own regulations...bty the Maryland DOT was a "Barney Five" type. I am just glad he didn't pull his gun.

layoutshooter · Jan 30, 2010

guido4475 said:
This may be none of my business, but please don't tell me they offered you a .68 cpm load in a White Glove truck.

We are a White Glove TVAL truck and have more than once been offered loads in the .50cpm. Nothing new there. We turn them down. That is just how it is.

nightcreacher · Jan 30, 2010

Anything you do having to do with trucking,even going for parts for your truck,can put you on duty.If you show your off duty time in the sleeper,its one way around it.If you show off duty time while waiting for dispatch,you better be able to prove you were doing something other than trucking,such as video games.In actuallity,there is no such thing as off duty waiting to get dispatched on a run.Also,being in the sleeper doesn't mean you were asleep,you can log in sleeper watching your TV,as long as your in the sleeper.

layoutshooter · Jan 30, 2010

I argue in the Soap Box. That proves that I was not doing trucking stuff!! Sometimes these regs sort of start reaching the point of goofy. Too bad there is no sanity in all of this. How silly can it get? Maybe I should not ask, they might work on getting more silly.

Kyle06 · Jan 31, 2010

I waiting for them to start put camera's in the truck so they know exactly what your doing and when you are doing it.... sheesh they need to butt out just alittle....... Now I can understand why they get strict on some of these company's that don't follow the rules but man it hurts the people that do...

greg334 · Jan 31, 2010

Bubble, relax. You must have a lot of time on your hands to ask this.

The no forced dispatch thing is about as useful as having an acceptance rate.

If you are sleeping and the phone rings with an offer, are you waiting to be dispatched or sleeping?

Kinda' like asking if you want paper or plastic.

As for any W/G reefer truck getting 50 cent offers, you guys are actually not calling Virginia and b*tching at her for this.

Crazynuff · Jan 31, 2010

B-6. How would "waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port be logged?

"Waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port may be recorded as off-duty, sleeper berth, or on duty/not driving, depending on specific circumstances.

For "waiting time" to be off-duty, the following off-duty conditions must be met:

1. The driver must be relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.
2. During the stop, and for the duration of the stop, the driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing and to leave the premises where the vehicle is situated.

If circumstances permit a driver to utilize a valid sleeper berth without being disturbed for a specific period of "waiting time," that time in the sleeper berth may be recorded as "sleeper berth" time. However, a driver must take eight consecutive hours in a sleeper berth, plus another two consecutive hours off duty or in a sleeper berth, in order to meet the requirement for the equivalent of 10 consecutive hours off duty. In most other circumstances, such as when the driver is required to remain with the vehicle to move it when necessary, the "waiting time" should be recorded as "on duty/not driving."
HOS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

OntarioVanMan · Jan 31, 2010

so by that I would say waiting for a load to actually be logged...in that case...everyone of you are cheaters! hahaha

highway star · Jan 31, 2010

Crazynuff said:
B-6. How would "waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port be logged?

It would be logged on the bottom line. Most carriers include a document in their permit books that release a driver from responsibility when waiting at a dock. You can then log 15 minutes to check in and dock, then if you're there for a couple hours that can be sleeper berth.

As far as waiting for your next dispatch, I'm sure that I heard or read that it was no longer considered on duty. When it was in the regs, it was not enforced. I mean, can you imagine? How would anything ever get done?

Acceptance rates is a whole other issue. Why someone would stay with a company that offers crazy low rates is beyond me.

layoutshooter · Jan 31, 2010

Why should I complain about the cpm offer? I don't have to take it. We don't.

As to the original part of this thread, I have to try to read that "little green book" on this. I have trouble reading it, I don't speak government lawyer very well.

What happens like this weekend or many in our case. We delivered on Fri and were pre-dispatched for Mon?

I guess it is asking far too much to expect common sense to come into play.

TeamCaffee · Jan 31, 2010

Since we are offered loads on a percentage bases we see many pay per mile offers. This is where knowing what we need per mile and also what we need per day to run comes in very handy.
A dispatcher does not look at what pay we are getting they look at who can make the pickup on time and they get the load off of the board. They do their job of offering us the load and then it is up to us to make the correct decision on excepting or refusing the load.

This thread though is very interesting on how to log. When waiting for a load we are in the sleeper....
I would like to see more hints and tips on how to log especially with how the companies are getting along and using the EOBR's