Older Reefers and California

ATeam · Jul 31, 2012

So as to not go deeply off topic in the locations thread, I'm starting a new thread here.

A number of reefer trucks and trailers have reached or will soon reach the age where CARB rules prohibit their operation in California.

It was mentioned in the locations thread that FedEx Custom Critical is allowing reefer trucks that are not CARB compliant to haul reefer freight in other states. That is a change, if the information is correct. When Diane and I were with FedEx Custom Critical, reefer trucks had to be CARB compliant to be flagged for reefer freight in any state.

That makes me wonder if market forces are starting to move against CARB, not just with one carrier but with all expedite carriers that haul reefer freight. Is the industry-wide reefer fleet size shrinking because too few people are willing to spend many thousands of dollars to upgrade or replace perfectly good reefers just because CARB says they must? Are enough people deciding to opt out of California reefer freight to make that decision felt in California?

What are the current reefer policies at Panther and Express-1 regarding California?

What are you seeing the reefer trucks you know about do regarding California?

Diane and I have the luxury of time, for a little longer at least. CARB policies have been known to change. We do not have to make an upgrade decision just yet and we're keeping our fingers crossed. Maybe, just maybe, California regulators will experience a moment of weakness and let sanity prevail.

zorry · Jul 31, 2012

I've spoken to reefer people that have just exited the market over simple repairs.
A fellow driver last week said it'll cost him $9000 to upgrade for CARB.
His present thinking is it's worth it.
I don't have numbers but believe the reefer fleet is shrinking. I also think it's better suited for the one truck operation.
There's too big of an investment/risk to put typical drivers into a reefer.

ATeam · Jul 31, 2012

zorry said:
I also think it's better suited for the one truck operation.
There's too big of an investment/risk to put typical drivers into a reefer.

Expediter Services seems to be doing that with some success.

ATeam · Jul 31, 2012

Our reefer dealer is giving us ball park prices of $8,000 to upgrade and $18,000 to replace our reefer. Upgrading means replacing the engine only. All other components remain the same.

layoutshooter · Jul 31, 2012

We were told about the same. $8-9000 just the engine. $16-19,000 for a reefer. Not worth is for the engine alone in my book. IF we upgrade we will go the new reefer rout. We have yet to decide if it is worth it. Racking my pea brain over that one.

zorry · Jul 31, 2012

Expediter Services has advantages that most fleet owners don't have.
I've seen new dry trucks for them. I do not know if they have any newer reefers.
Anyone know what Jason is doing ?

zorry · Jul 31, 2012

If Fed will let you stay TVal with your present unit I'd just stay East myself.
Let those of us who are committed ( or should be committed) run California for a premium.

zorry · Jul 31, 2012

LOS, if you replace the unit,how much more time do you have on the box ?

layoutshooter · Jul 31, 2012

Box is 2009. I was thinking later moving the reefer to a new truck. Kinda alternate.

zorry · Jul 31, 2012

What year unit "times-out" on Dec 31,2012 ?

layoutshooter · Jul 31, 2012

zorry said:
What year unit "times-out" on Dec 31,2012 ?

The 2005 model year.

ATeam · Jul 31, 2012

layoutshooter said:
We were told about the same. $8-9000 just the engine. $16-19,000 for a reefer. Not worth is for the engine alone in my book. IF we upgrade we will go the new reefer rout. We have yet to decide if it is worth it. Racking my pea brain over that one.

I know one FDCC contractor who has upgraded but no others. Obviously he thought it was worth it. He also resides in California.

Are there others out there who have upgraded or replaced their old reefers, and if so, what was the thinking that made it worth doing?

layoutshooter · Jul 31, 2012

ATeam said:
I know one FDCC contractor who has upgraded but no others. Obviously he thought it was worth it. He also resides in California.

Are there others out there who have upgraded or replaced their old reefers, and if so, what was the thinking that made it worth doing?

Spending HOURS crunching numbers. We ALSO have to consider that our APU is dead and needs replaced.

What we REALLY need is to hit the lottery and then I can just play. NOW, if someone would just buy me the winning ticket! LOL!!

jimby82 · Jul 31, 2012

zorry said:
Expediter Services has advantages that most fleet owners don't have.
I've seen new dry trucks for them. I do not know if they have any newer reefers.
Anyone know what Jason is doing ?

We were told they are not planning on adding any additional TVAL trucks, and that all the new trucks were surface only. This was about 6 weeks ago, but things may have changed since then.

We ran into a couple (owner/operators) at a delivery 3 weeks back who were driving their new Cascadia. They had been with FDCC for several years and this was their second truck. They has driven for owners prior to purchasing their first new one. All prior trucks were reefers. The new truck was not. He said he just couldn't justify the additional expense (around $50,000) and maintenance costs, considering the rates reefer freight is now bringing.

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ATeam · Jul 31, 2012

We're geeting good responses from FedEx contractors. What's the word about Panther and Express-1 reefers and California?

zorry · Jul 31, 2012

I suspected what Jimby82 said to be true.
I just did not know it to be a fact.

davekc · Jul 31, 2012

zorry said:
I suspected what Jimby82 said to be true.
I just did not know it to be a fact.

I heard basically the same thing at the expo.

moose · Jul 31, 2012

Keep in mind, that an older reefer unit simply cannot drive into Cali.
regardless if the reefer motor is operated or not.
point in case, last year i did a dry load from Seattle to Phoenix. load paid VERY well.
if placed inside a non CARB reefer, that load cannot cross California.
a direct violation of interstate commerce laws.
no chance CARB will 'wake up' , they will be forced to by courts.

truck loads loads are being relayed around state lines for some time now.
good business opportunity there.

paullud · Jul 31, 2012

I was just talking with a reefer driver in Barstow that runs from WI to CA regularly and he is using an older reefer because the DOT does not enforce that law, he said it is the "CARB police".

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ATeam · Jul 31, 2012

paullud said:
I was just talking with a reefer driver in Barstow that runs from WI to CA regularly and he is using an older reefer because the DOT does not enforce that law, he said it is the "CARB police".

What kind of reefer freight does he haul?