The title of the thread is what? Obama looking like job killer in chief.The link was just one example of how he is killing american jobs.I just posted other links that also make him look like job killer in chief.Everything in my post goes with the title of the thread just fine.
Yes, it does, except the subject of the thread isn't necessarily defined by the thread title, is it defined by the content of the initial post. It was staying more or less on-topic until you wanted to talk about trade deals and health reform and Boeing and all manner of crap
not Gibson. It's related, but it's another topic just the same.
The 2009 raid concerned wood imported from Madagascar, which the Justice Department maintains was obtained in violation of Madagascan law. “Gibson,” says the company’s press release, “has obtained sworn statements and documents from the Madagascar government and these materials, which have been filed in federal court, show that the wood seized in 2009 was legally exported under Madagascar law and that no law has been violated.”
Yes, I'm aware of each side's story, and it'll be settled in court.
This year’s raid seems to be about wood from India. The Justice Department “has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India,” Gibson explains. “This action,” the company hastens to point out, “was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.”
Yes, I'm aware of what Gibson has to say about it.
Wood being a plant product, any company that imports any wood-based product must, as the Wall Street Journal put it, meet “every regulatory jot and tittle” of the country from which the wood was harvested — and, says Gibson, that applies “if you did not observe a law even though you had no knowledge of that law in a foreign country.” Moreover, because (in the words of the Rainforest Alliance) “the ban on illegal timber as defined in the Lacey Act amendments has not been supported by a clear framework of regulation that sets guidelines for importers, exporters and traders,” it leaves the government a wide range of discretion to persecute businesses that have run afoul of politicians, political appointees, and bureaucrats. Lew Rockwell may have been onto something when he suggested that the attacks on Gibson have precious little to do with preserving trees and much to do with the fact that the company “failed to bribe the right people in DC.”
Again, yes, I'm aware of what Gibson has to say about it. I'm also aware of the opinions of several other people, including that of Lew Rockwell, as I read his stuff regularly.
The Gibson Guitar Raid - HUMAN EVENTS
seems greenpeace and the rainforest alliance dont see gibson the same as you do.
No, it doesn't seem like that at all. That came from a statement by Gibson, not Greenpeace or the Rainforest Alliance. Gibson has been busted more than once with imports with products labeled as being from FSC approved suppliers when they were in fact from non-approved suppliers that were made to look like they came from somewhere else.
Seems it was forest stewardship council recognized wood.Meaning it was all on the up and up.
On the up and up? You're taking the word of Gibson as gospel. Gibson says they didn't do anything wrong, therefore they didn't do anything wrong? Really?
Say what you want but I belive that the people who make it their lifes work to protect mother earth know a little more about it then you.
Maybe, maybe not, but in either case the people who protect Mother Earth hasn't commented one word on this raid.
The raid from 2009 and still no charges have been brought?I wounder why?
Me, too, cause we've never seen anything like that happen before. Usually, charges are files the very next day after any raid.
maybe because there are no charges to be brought.
Maybe.
Also you should do your reading on the changes made to the lacey act in 08 and how easy it is to get into trouble because the changes are so vague.Really if you own a guitar thats 40-50 years old and you sell it with out having every peice of paper work about where every sliver of wood came from And was bought legaly by todays standerds not when it was made 40-50 years ago you have just broken the law and face the same troubles as gibson does.
No need to be insulting in assuming I haven't done my reading. Not only have I done my reading, a friend of mine who lives in the attic apartment at my house is a student at the university, as well as being a teacher and virtuoso classical guitar player, and just got through going through this
same exact crap with the government when he sold an old Gibson guitar to another musician. He had to have papers of origin for the guitar.
It's no surprise the right-wing online media quickly adopted Gibson’s side of the story, because Gibson, according to Gibson, "has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood”. (Except those who know Gibson know otherwise.) Gibson, according to Gibson, is being bullied by the big, bad Obama Justice Department. Gibson, according to Gibson, will fight these completely unfounded and fabricated charges and “we will fight aggressively to prove our innocence.” Talk about protesting too much. The only thing they left out is that they didn't have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinski.
Meanwhile, the Rainforest Action Network (RAN), Greenpeace, and Rainforest Alliance, the most passionate tree huggers on the planet who have never ignored a chance to make a public statement, haven't said a single word. Not one. How come they have nothing to say?
Funny how on July 2010 the Rainforest Alliance announced that Gibson was working with them on a new wood sourcing plan following the 2009 raid. The new plan had six key elements and the first one was:
“Gibson is eliminating risk in its supply chain by identifying potentially illegal or unsustainable sources, banning future purchases of ebony or rosewood from Madagascar, and requiring all future purchases are from documented legal sources”.
So, apparently Gibson understood that there was something wrong with the purchase of these sorts of wood from Madagascar and that even if it complies with the law (which is yet to be seen), this sort of action does not meet the sustainability standards they
claim to employ. If they did nothing wrong, there would be no reason for the six key elements, much less the one above. Funny, that.
Another important point made by Rainforest Alliance was that “securing FSC-certified supply is critical for Gibson, but also must be accompanied by a clear commitment to eliminating any volume, no matter how small, of illegal wood that may contaminate its supply chain.” This statement shows that FSC-certification is not the end of the journey, but only part of it. So even though Gibson claims now that “the wood the Government seized on August 24 is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and is FSC Controlled”, it still does not mean it is all together on the up and up, and Gibson knows it. It's pure spin. They've been trying for year to get around under and through any and every loophole they can. They claim transparency, yet everything they do is muddied in the oblique.
They even went so far to put on a pretty face of having Gibson’s CEO placed onto the Board of Directors of the Rainforest Alliance. That will surely make the government see that they are serious about doing things right. Except, right after thew 2009 raid he took a, uhm, leave of absence from the Board of Directors for, uhm, personal reasons, even though he continued his daily duties at Gibson. They kicked him off the Board because he smelled like rotten wood.
Gibson is as dirty as they come. They are right up there with Chiquita who paid "protection" money to the drug cartels so they could get their bananas safely out of Central America. You can swallow Gibson's side of the story hook, line and sinker if you want, but I know better. Like every other story, there's more to this one that we're reading on the Blogs.
