Newbie given good advice

[Tennesee Trash]

This is just a general posting to let everyone know what has transpired since I started collecting info about getting started.
First off I have read almost every thread placed on this site , checked out all the other info offered from jobs to trucks, to equipment, and all related sponsor sites. I will say I have been very pleased with what I have found so far. I have read some negative about loads , areas to go to (good and bad), and discussions about type vehicles to buy, van, sprinter, straight truck , etc.For the sake of research, I have called several carriers with numerous questions, and have even gotten into recruiters personal time and email to get questions answered. Especially helpful was Scott Hancock with Express-1.I have not once failed to get help and an answer to any question I had no matter how stupid it sounded at the time.
I would like to relate a story about a trucker I just met this morning at one of our warehouses in the Industrial park. He, (expediter out of Florida),was setting just outside the gate waiting to get in when they opened. I ask him if he minded if I ask a few questions , he said no and we talked for probably 30 to 40 minutes. He gave me a lot of pointers about where to go for a good deal on a "D" class truck. , cost , start up cost , etc. That was all and good but what really caught my attention was his willingness to share all his knowledge with me so freely and would answer anything I ask. He said he use to ignore inquiries form anyone because at one time he felt if anyone was trying to get into his profession they would be taking food out of his mouth. He said it all changed when he finally overheard an older driver going on and on with some newbie and he got curious as to why he had done that. He said the man said,"son can you be in 48 states and Canada all at once, NO, "well your job can't grow if there isn't someone in those other places to get the loads and establish the need for expediters in that area" ... "It's simple when you get a load someone has already done a good job " " so the only way to get more loads is get more good people to service them." He said there will always be too many trucks, not enough loads , and sorry months to deal with but money can be made and he emphasised no one told him where to go, when to get up or what days to work. Sounds good to me . Again thanks everyone your post DO HELP, they are READ and we new to this ARE reading and listening.
Thanks Larry , Tn/ Trash

 

[Glen Rice]

I think I see a light bulb over your head? It sounds like you really get what this is all about. I also believe when you make it in expediting you will also be the type of individual that would stop and answer another newbies questions and concerns. You should be proud of yourself for understanding and observing mankind at its best! Good luck and fortune in what ever you decide to do with your future.

 

[Tennesee Trash]

Thanks Glen, I appreciate the encouragement sometimes the waters look awful deep and cold when considering a new lifestyle / career.

Thanks again Larry / Tn Trash

 

[ATeam]

A big pat on the back to you for the research you are doing! And another one for pointing out a dynamic all newbies should understand. There are indeed drivers out there that will discourage others from entering the business because they really do belive that someone does well, someone else must be doing poor. That's called a scarcity mentality. The abundance mentality understands that the more good people we have out there doing the work we do, the better off we all are. A good expediter helps all other expediters and expedite carriers grow their businesses.

Newbies, when someone is discouraging you from entering the business it's probably because that driver is limited by his or her own the scarcity mentality, or because the driver has sized you up and determined that you do not have what it takes to succeed in the business. In the first case, you should take the driver's comments with a grain of salt. In the second case, the driver may be right on the money.

Knowing the difference requires of you the moral courage to take a good look at yourself and to to see if that driver may be right. In either case, you are wise to carefully consider what others tell you before accepting or rejecting the advice.

 

[Tom Robertson]

trash & ATeam

Ateam writes...

"Newbies, when someone is discouraging you from entering the business it's probably because that driver is limited by his or her own the scarcity mentality..."

trash... remember that opinions are just that... one man's opinion.

ATeam and I have had several conversations regarding the encouragement of others into the industry. I guess you could say that we have agreed to disagree.

I encourage anyone who has a strong interest to give it a try... but drive for someone else BEFORE you purchase a truck. Check out the classifieds for used trucks. Look under vans... need a new Sprinter? You can find one there from someone who just bought it less than two months ago... WHY??? because he could not make enough money driving to make the payments.

Furthermore I receive at least two calls a month from people wanting to sell their trucks or sign them on with my company...again because the are not getting the miles necessary to make ends meet. Sadly we do not contract with Owner Operators, and most have paid too much for the truck they bought to enter the industry, giving them an immediate upside down position on their rides.

Do not misunderstand...there is definitely money to be made... by drivers, owners and carriers. Those who enjoy and adjust to the "expediter lifestyle", who enter the industry and learn without first laying out their own cash buying a truck are the ones most likely to succeed. ATeam is a shinning example... to my knowledge, they have been driving for owners of trucks for well over a year and have spec'ed out a new truck. Had they jumped in and purchased their own truck from the begining perhaps ATeam would be writing in another forum for a different profession. ATeam has written about the importance of working with and learing from a good owner.

trash.... I simply advise you to take all advice given with not a dash but a shaker full of salt, prior to investing in your own truck.

If you're with a reputable and honest owner, the chances of meeting or even exceeding the income you will earn as a newbie with your own truck is very real. An experienced owner can guide you into known areas to avoid many of the pitfalls you would experience as an O/O.

Play it safe...we welcome you into the industry, but keep your hard earned money in your pocket for at least one year. You decisions on equipment alone will save you a bundle. Make decisions on your own experiences rather than the experiences of others who will not have to make the payment on the truck.

btw... most newbies fail to see ALL the expenses in owning a truck...
insurance, oil changes, tires, maintenance on items never before considered, possible tow bills, loss of income while a repair is made, inspections, licensing, fuel taxes... and many more not listed.

Something ALL NEW TRUCK OWNERS will soon find out about !

 

[Weave]

I believe Scott Hancock from E1 was interviewed by EO, I recall the story, something about a dispatcher ride along. I know he is one of their top drivers.
-Weave-

 

[ATeam]

It seems some text has been deleted (cleaned up?) by moderators that I did not see. That's probably a good thing.

Taking all advice with a "shaker full of salt", as Tom suggests is refreshing to hear. It used to be that if you dared question an experienced driver's advice in this forum, no matter how poor or inappropriate that advice may be, you were made to feel wrong or disrespectful for having done so. I think Tom has it right. Newbies should question all advice. Take everything with a "shaker full of salt."

Diane and I started researching trucking two years ago and jumped into expediting in August, 2003. Had we followed half the advice we received in this forum and from experienced drivers, we'd be bankrupt today. It's the good half that helped us get off to a good start. While a bunch of experienced drivers offered advice of all kinds, it fell to us to discern the good from the bad.

Also note that the streets are not paved with gold when newbies go with a fleet owner instead of buying their own truck. Having a fleet owner in your life - as with any relationship - complicates things. There are positives and negatives. The negatives are something to live with (put up with, suffer through, flee from, overcome) as you proceed in that relationship. There are a number of successful drivers in expediting that did not begin with a fleet owner, and if they had it to do over again, they would again start on their own.

Again, there are two popular models for entering the industry. One is to begin with a fleet owner. The other is to buy a truck and jump in. Both models have success stories and failure stories.

In fact, I don't think the failurs of the fleet owner model are as fully acknowledged as they should be. Fleet owners turn drivers over all the time. If the model was so good, more people would succeed after entering the industry under a fleet owner's prior screening and ongoing coaching, would they not?

I maintain that the success for failure of newbies in the business is due less to the entry path chosen, and more to the business planning and personal preparation (or lack of it) they do before they begin.

 

[Weave]

Now answer a question for me A-Team with a Yes or a No. Would you have gone out and bought a brand new expediter truck without having driven for a fleet owner, or without ever having read a word on the EO website?
-Weave-

 

[Tennesee Trash]

I sincerely appreciate all the comments from all of you,Tom,Weave, ATeam, and others who have emailed me. I am feeling pretty good now about my decision to "go for it". I am however not about to jump into a new unit as the price would prohibitive right now and I am not knowledgeable enough to know whether a used unit is what ,price,type, make,engine, I may need. So I have decided to try to go "the work for someone else first" route ,either as a co-driver or with a company. I have crossed the first hurdles by getting my DOT physical card, and obtaining my "B" class CDL yesterday, Friday, had a CDL learner's permit for 6 months. I have further went on a week run ,"for free", my call, just to learn how this particular person did expediting in general. I got back two weeks ago. Absolutely loved it!! I do understand it was only a glimpse of what I will really have to do and that one week is no real trial period, but I took what I could get. He only needed someone to help drive until his wife could go back out with him.

I have read everyone's comments and take everything to heart and will continue to do the same from now on. I can not begin to expalin how helpful all of you have been to all us "Newbies". Keep us straight and keep it honest, Good or Bad.
Thanks again,

Larry, Tn/ Trash

 

[Tom Robertson]

trash...

good decision on your part...try before you buy!!!!

ATeam...
notice I stated to find an honest and experienced owner.
yes... they exist and as you posted for months on end, you drove for one. I like many others in this forum have a problem with you giving advice, without having walked the walk. If you didn't enter this endustry with your own truck, you have no right to advise someone else to do so.
Final question for you... how long have you been driving in our industry? Next question... how long have you driven your own truck?

So to all newbies ... take heed... if you are advised by someone to take a certain route... be sure the adviser has a road map!

 

[Weave]

I just want to make a couple of points for the newcomer, and maybe clarify a few things. I talked with Tom Robertson on the live chat, and he said his his company does not hire or train newcomers.
For the newcomer with no CDL or experience who wants to run a C or D unit, your start up choices are now somewhat limited. I'm not meaning to sound discouraging, just being honest. If you can't drive a standard transmission, they are limited even more if you go the fleet owner route. Even if you do plunge in, get your CDL on your own, and buy a truck right from the start, you will be limited to only a handful of places that will lease you on if you have no experience, same goes if you run with a fleet owner. You have to go with a fleet owner who has trucks leased to those companies who will hire newcomers. The other thing is these companies, mainly the larger ones, are the ones where teams seem to do the best and new solos tend to get into somewhat of a struggle. Most of the smaller companies where I have found with my own experience solos can do better at, now require 1 or 2 years verified experience, dictated by their insurance carriers. I have always felt and still feel it is best to start out driving for someone else, it is a LOT less risky.
-Weave-

 

[Tom Robertson]

Weave

Thanks for making the point regarding our company not hiring newbies... very simply our insurance company does not allow it.

The point here is that I have nothing to gain by advising trash or anyone else to "try before you buy"

My only interest is to see fewer ads for new or recently purchased vehicles in the classified section... meaning fewer people having their lives turned upside down by taking advise from others without the specific experience to guide them.

 

[Weave]

Thanks Tom, I feel the same way. I don't think it is a "scarcity mentality" for those with experience to present things the way they know them to be, to the best of their knowledge and ability. Yet I have accepted over my years of posting on EO that some people are going to view some posts where I might not recommend one thing or another as being negative or that I have a limited mentality. That's fine, the posts are only my opinions. I have been driving expedite for 8 years now, 7 of them in my own trucks, just to point out my opinions ARE based on reality and things that I have seen or things that have happened to me. Posts about subjects from those who have not walked the walk are only speculation, and that's what I feel is a scarcity mentality.
-Weave-

 

[RichM]

Both Tom and Weave offer excellent advice, both of them have been in the trenches,worried about truck payments, high maintenace costs etc, and have essentially walked the line.
A while back DaveKc posted that a new individual seeking advice for entering this business should look to someone who has at leatst 8-10 years experience and are on their second or third truck. Not someone who has zero experience as a truck owner. I truly hate to see people "lose the farm" based on someone's so called research and planning advice.

 

[ATeam]

>Now answer a question for me A-Team with a Yes or a No.
>Would you have gone out and bought a brand new expediter
>truck without having driven for a fleet owner,

YES

or without
>ever having read a word on the EO website?

NO

>-Weave-

Now that you have your yes and no answers, allow me to elaborate. Having now been driving as an expediter for 17 months, and naturally knowing the business better than one could when simply researching it, and knowing the skills Diane and I have, there is no question in my mind that had we started by buying a truck of our own from the first day, we would have succeeded in the business. The learning experiences would have been different but we would have made it without the benefit of a fleet owner's coaching.

Fleet owners are not the only folks out there that are willing to help. We received a lot of help from other drivers that we quickly befriended on the road and stayed in touch with.

For us, the biggest advantage of fleet owners was the opportunity to sample the business before committing capital of our own to a truck. Before we committed 100% to the endeavor, we knew for certain that we could live and work happily and profitably on the road.

Could we have made it on our own without the benefit of the EO community, perhaps, but I'm glad we didn't have to. That said, I want to re-emphasize my point that all advice recevied from the EO community should be taken with a shaker full of salt.

Weave, some of the advice you have given here would have hurt us badly had we taken it. That does not mean what you said was factually incorrect. It does mean that what you said may have been appropriate for some but it was not approptiate for us. It falls to each reader here to know themselves and thereby know what advice is wise and unwise for them.

 

[ATeam]

I am
>feeling pretty good now about my decision to "go for it".

Larry,

Your story demonstrates one of the great opportunities expediting provides...the ability for someone to enter into a new field of endeavor and learn the business without the need to go into debt or lay out capital of one's own. I know of no other career opportunity where a person of good will and good intentions can be entrusted with a $100,000 piece of equipment and can use it to produce a living wage and, if one chooses, to work one's way up to the point where he or she can become an owner/operator in one's own right.

Good luck to you! Keep us posted!

 

[ATeam]

>ATeam...
>notice I stated to find an honest and experienced owner.
>yes... they exist and as you posted for months on end, you
>drove for one.

Yes we did. And as I've stated numerous times, our first owner provided great coaching that we needed early on, the value of that coaching fell to zero as we learned the business ourselves, and we left that fleet owner because of his failure to maintain his trucks. That failure was costing us too much money in lost runs. We still run with a fleet owner now. He takes better care of his trucks.

I like many others in this forum have a
>problem with you giving advice, without having walked the
>walk.

That's been the case from the day I started posting here and in other forms. It seems it really irritates some to hear from others that are researching the industry and then share their opinions "too early." I've always been a quick study, confident in my abilities, and outspoken. That irritates some, and frankly, I don't care. The fact is my research was right on the money and my opinions are as worthy or unworthy as anyone else's in this forum.

If you didn't enter this endustry with your own
>truck, you have no right to advise someone else to do so.

I reject that point of view. By the same reasoning, a police officer could not do his job if he was not a criminal first. A Priest could not advise people on family values because he has never been a husband and father. A politician could never vote on a bill wher the topic was outside his or her area of personal experience. A diesel mechanic wannabee could never express his opinion about an engine before turning a wrench. An expediter with 10 years of solo experience could never advise a team about business risks of driving team. Etc.

>Final question for you... how long have you been driving in
>our industry?

Seventeen months.

Next question... how long have you driven
>your own truck?

Zero months.

And I fail to see your point. The time to understand truck owner/operator issues is not after you buy a truck, but before. Just as my industry research was right on as an expediter wannabe, I am 100% confident that my truck ownership research is right on as an owner/operator wannabe.


>So to all newbies ... take heed... if you are advised by
>someone to take a certain route... be sure the adviser has a
>road map!

Also to all newbies...since Tom has seen fit to make his proclaimation, note that THIS newbie and his wife entered the expditing business with no prior truck driving experience whatsoever, operated profitably from the first day, quickly mastered the work and became a top producer, saved the good money he made, and ordered a truck of his own a little over a year after he entered the business. The new truck cost will be way over the top in the view of some long-time drivers and long-time contributors to EO. The fact remains that that truck will be paid for entirely from our expedited earnings. The career path modeled by my wife and I is not a fantasy. It can be duplicated by anyone that has the attitude, work ethic, and industry commitments we have.

 

[ATeam]

Even
>if you do plunge in, get your CDL on your own, and buy a
>truck right from the start, you will be limited to only a
>handful of places that will lease you on if you have no
>experience, same goes if you run with a fleet owner.

Here is a case that demonstrates my point earlier made; namely, all readers should take advice given here with a shaker full of salt. What Weave says is not false, but it is not entirely true either. The rest of the story is that FedEx CC and perhaps other carriers WILL indeed take you on if you lack driving experience. They took my wife and I on with no prior experience whatsoever. To fulfill their six month driving experience requirement, we took advantage of another provision in the FedEx CC rules. We took a FedEx CC-approved road test with a FedEx CC-approved instructer. When we passed that, FedEx CC put us on. Also, fleet owners with good reputations with their carriers can sometimes bring newbies on board that don't meet the carrier's stated requirements by taking responsibility for some of the hands-on, day-to-day grounding the newbie may require.

 

[ATeam]

>Both Tom and Weave offer excellent advice, both of them have
>been in the trenches,worried about truck payments, high
>maintenace costs etc, and have essentially walked the line.
>A while back DaveKc posted that a new individual seeking
>advice for entering this business should look to someone who
>has at leatst 8-10 years experience and are on their second
>or third truck. Not someone who has zero experience as a
>truck owner. I truly hate to see people "lose the farm"
>based on someone's so called research and planning advice.

People researching the industry are also wise to note that when industry slowdowns occur, it's not just the newbies that wash out. A whole lot of drivers with a whole lot of experience fail too. If experience was as valuable as some suggest it is, only newbies would fail and only experienced people would succeed in the lean times.

People researching the industry are also wise to note that there are a whole lot of experienced expediters out there that have been working hard for many years and have very little to show for their efforts.

Experience guarentees neither wisdom nor success in expediting, or in any other field of endeavor for that matter.

 

[ATeam]

>btw... most newbies fail to see ALL the expenses in owning a
>truck...
>insurance, oil changes, tires, maintenance on items never
>before considered, possible tow bills, loss of income while
>a repair is made, inspections, licensing, fuel taxes... and
>many more not listed.
>
>Something ALL NEW TRUCK OWNERS will soon find out about !

Just in case you have me in mind, Tom, when you refer to "ALL NEW TRUCK OWNERS", kindly note that every item you mentioned is already included in our business plan and pro forma statement of income and expenses.

While it is entirely possible that I've missed some things, it is not likely. You are talking to a guy that has a budget line item for the tax deductible shoe polish we use on our steel-toed-shoes! I can tell you what portion of the Q-tips we buy go for truck cleaning (deductible) and what are used to clean our ears (non-deductible, but a useful aid in listening).

Extra wiper blades for a brand new truck? Got 'em. Extra headlamp? Got that too! Cleaning supplies for the new truck? They are in the budget. Additonal toll money because our new truck will have two drive axles? Yep, and even can tell you what states that makes a difference in and which states charge tolls by weight. Truck washes? They are in the budget too.

I actually have two lists, one for startup costs and one for ongoing costs over several years. Startup costs include things like extra wiper blades and freight handling equipment required by our carrier. Ongoing costs include things like fuel, insurance, and even intangibles like depreciation. The numbers even adjust to account for the time value of money and purchasing power considerations that must be factored in over the life cycle of the truck.

Tom, instead of criticizing me for perhaps overlooking the "hidden" costs of truck ownership, you could do the entire EO community and especially newbie owner/operators a great service by publishing your list. If I published my list of truck ownership costs, you'd complain because I have not yet "walked the walk." That leaves it to you. Let's have it Tom...what are the hidden costs of truck ownership that people should know?