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Need to assess the level of abuse we just endured!!

M

MsUsedExpdtr

Seasoned Expediter
We feel this is a great business to be in and we are NOT going to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch, but we are going to cover EVERY possibility before we dive in again.

We just learned a Very hard lesson by signing up with a new owner that is running expedite trucks that "DO NOT require a CDL".

We made it out alive , only broke, bruised and battered.

Some questions we have during our quest for a legitimate owner:

1. Can the owners that are advertising 60/40 split with 100% FSC to the drivers be taken seriously? Drivers are you receiving the FSC?

2. Are you receiving any portion of dead-head pay?

3. Are you receiving a percentage of detention, loading, unloading pay?

4. When you are 1100 miles from home or company headquarters and the owner "cant" pay you or says he deposited the money into your account 1 week ago but doesnt know why it isnt "in there yet",- would you turn down runs and sit until you saw the money in your account or keep on truckin?

5. When the contract states that owner will forward money for tolls but he only does this ONCE to get you out of the headquarters parking lot and then the future tolls come out of your pocket ( 3 MO thru New York State runs ) and you keep calling him asking and then begging for toll money (remember no paychecks YET) and he reassures you that he'll "put it into your account". Would you pull into the toll booth with NO money and just tie up traffic to get your point across on the 6 o'clock news or blow through the EZ pass lane and pay for a ticket.

6. When you accept a run and the owner tells you to have headquarters advance you 50% fuel money over qual- comm (which they do quickly) and then you pull in to fuel ,but there is no money on your fuel card because the owner is transferring money around between cards for his other trucks. What do you do?
Your choices are: 1.pay for fuel yourself to make the run on time and save face with your company. 2. Sit and wait for possible funds which will cost you the run and gain you a big, bad check mark beside your truck # at headquarters even though you explained the owners problem. 3. Leave the truck where it is and hitch-hike home.

Sorry, just venting a little frustration. :mad: I have never felt so used and abused in all my life and was just wondering how other owners are actually treating their drivers.

We really want to know how to avoid making the same mistake twice.

Thanks in advance!
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
My answers (in red)are from our three years of running in fleet-owner trucks. We are owner-operators now.

1. Can the owners that are advertising 60/40 split with 100% FSC to the drivers be taken seriously? Drivers are you receiving the FSC?

Yes, and yes.

2. Are you receiving any portion of dead-head pay?

Yes.

3. Are you receiving a percentage of detention, loading, unloading pay?

Yes.

4. When you are 1100 miles from home or company headquarters and the owner "cant" pay you or says he deposited the money into your account 1 week ago but doesnt know why it isnt "in there yet",- would you turn down runs and sit until you saw the money in your account or keep on truckin?

Neither one. We would immediately return the fleet owner's truck and terminate the contract with him or her. This would be a stop-loss action to get out of a bad relationship before it became worse. Any money disputes that were not resolved when the truck was turned in would be continued after we got into another truck and got our revenue started again.

5. When the contract states that owner will forward money for tolls but he only does this ONCE to get you out of the headquarters parking lot and then the future tolls come out of your pocket ( 3 MO thru New York State runs ) and you keep calling him asking and then begging for toll money (remember no paychecks YET) and he reassures you that he'll "put it into your account". Would you pull into the toll booth with NO money and just tie up traffic to get your point across on the 6 o'clock news or blow through the EZ pass lane and pay for a ticket.

Neither one. If you are in a bad situation with a fleet owner, you will not help yourself by creating more bad situations, some of which will come back on you.

6. When you accept a run and the owner tells you to have headquarters advance you 50% fuel money over qual- comm (which they do quickly) and then you pull in to fuel ,but there is no money on your fuel card because the owner is transferring money around between cards for his other trucks. What do you do?
Your choices are: 1.pay for fuel yourself to make the run on time and save face with your company. 2. Sit and wait for possible funds which will cost you the run and gain you a big, bad check mark beside your truck # at headquarters even though you explained the owners problem. 3. Leave the truck where it is and hitch-hike home.

We would notify HQ that we cannot complete the run because the fleet owner emptied the fuel card. Once a rescue truck was dispatched to take the freight off our truck, and the customer can be served, we would return the truck to the fleet owner and terminate the contract. We would provide detailed and written information to the carrier explaining our actions and request the carrier's help in finding a better fleet owner (if the carrier is OK).

When you get into a fleet owner's truck you should do so with enough money to return the truck from any place in the country. Otherwise you are trapped not by the fleet owner but by your own lack of funds.

Sorry, just venting a little frustration. :mad: I have never felt so used and abused in all my life and was just wondering how other owners are actually treating their drivers.

Some fleet owners abuse their drivers, as your story shows. Others do not.

We really want to know how to avoid making the same mistake twice.

Read a year's worth of posts here, paying special attention to the ones that involve fleet owner praises and complaints. Ask yourself what you would do in those situations knowing what you know now. Also, do not go back out on the road without enough money in your pocket to return a fleet owner's truck and get back home. Interview several fleet owners before choosing one. Ask to talk to their other drivers and ask the drivers about the fleet owner's driver pay and money management history.
 
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Jefferson3000

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Yes there are some very scrupulous owners to deal with out there. And I know there are some that aren't. Just remember: All contract are NOT created equal. If you need legal advice on a contract next time, then get it.

Also I am not normally wary of new owners, but I am if the owner is new, and knows nothing about freight, ie. the guy who heard this was a great opportunity, bought four new trucks and knows nothing about transportation.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
My pay system is 60/40 with the team getting 60% and buying fuel. They get 100% of the fsc plus 100% of dh and em pay. They get 100% of "people pay" like hand load unless I happen to be at the same crossdock and help in which case I'll take 1/3. That's never happened and doubt it ever will but the money should go where the work is. If there's a separate liftgate fee along with handload I get that since I paid for the liftgate. I get 1/2 of "time pay" like detention and layover since the time my truck sits unavailable is identical to the time the people sit unavailable. The team pays tolls if they choose toll roads and gets 100% of any toll reimbursement which they've hopefully negotiated if going into toll country. They pay their own occ/acc insurance and I pay the rest. So far I have no complaints.
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Drivers paying occupational accident insurance premiums was common in the fleet owner relationships we had.
 
P

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
I don't know if it's the same in US, but here, if the employee pays his own premiums for disability insurance, and ends up having to collect at some point, it is not taxed as taxable income. If the employer pays the premiums, the amounts collected at time of injury would be taxed, therefore many employees pay their own premiums for this type of ins.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They pay the insurance because it is their benefit not mine. If it comes into play they receive the entire benefit amount and I receive no part of it. I don't consider it unfair to have them cover that particular expense, especially considering how much else I take no portion of.
 
nightcreacher

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
I pay jerry 23% of the load less fsc,he gets 1/2 of any thing we get paid extra to do,such as ddps,or sort and stack,or tarping a flat bed.As he is running solo right now.he would then get 100% of the extra charges.i pay tolls and fuel. His pay right now is 33% less fsc and tolls. I pay the work acc ins.if he gets hurt no matter whos at fault he gets full coverage
 
Last edited:
moose

moose

Veteran Expediter
moose said:
Please explain why .



Moose.
Click to expand...

Here are my thoughts :
1- in case of an claim ,it will be as a results of injury on the work place ,(like hearting the back lifting/securing a load, falling off the truck,Ext...)
it is the employer responsibility to provide a safe work place , by paying the premium ,the employer is stating its commitment for doing so.
2-it costs about 2k/Y a driver , and in return an owner can offer the bests work place in the industry .
at best, it can be offered as an insensitive for longevity.
3- adding a worker into an existent occ , will save 20% or more
on premium. by passing along the saving ,the owner can offer an unmatched attitude and saving toward its workforce .
4- if become a standard ,it will make life easy for newbies to fine the good owners , as struggling ones will not offered this kind of benefits .




Moose.
 
cheri1122

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Moose, I can't agree with your logic, sorry. The truck owner provides a safe environment by maintaining the truck in good working order, (aided by the driver), and the rest is up to the driver.WE are responsible for our own safety, not the owner.
I pay my workers comp insurance premiums, and I think that's fair - as Leo said, if I ever need to collect, I'll be the one to benefit, and it might well be my own fault that I do. (I have been known to be a bit of a klutz sometimes, sigh)
 
T

TS462

Seasoned Expediter
I think there are owners who prey on new drivers. Knowing good and well they are not going to pay them. And too the compaines they work for I.E the big 3 or one of the smaller ones they have nothing to say about it because your a contractor not a real employee either way for a new driver or someone whos been doing this a long time we need the cash in one way or another when i 1st go into this over 3 yrs ago after driving semi for 15 yrs i had an owner who took me for about 3000 which to me is alot of money . but i guess the really nice thing about is in my state i can sue for up to 3 times the amout so my 3 grand loss ended up making my over 6800 i was allowed to put 8% interest on the 9 grand i sued for plus cost and the judge made him pay right then and there so something to think about if an owner takes you to the cleaners And really nice thing is with the extra cash i put that on my truck now i have no one getting in my pocket other than my wife lol
 
cheri1122

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It's good to hear about some unethical jerk being made to pay for their actions!
To the OP: I am sorry to hear about what a rough time you had - please don't assume all owners are like that, because they're not. The owners of the truck I drive are honest and fair, and there are a lot like them, I know.
Your best defense is research (talk to other drivers, especially previous drivers for an owner you're considering), a fair contract, and documentation: if it isn't in writing, it didn't happen, more or less.
Hope you have better luck next time - and being better prepared to choose a good owner goes a long way towards ensuring it.
 
iceroadtrucker

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
nightcreacher said:
I pay jerry 23% of the load less fsc,he gets 1/2 of any thing we get paid extra to do,such as ddps,or sort and stack,or tarping a flat bed.As he is running solo right now.he would then get 100% of the extra charges.i pay tolls and fuel. His pay right now is 33% less fsc and tolls. I pay the work acc ins.if he gets hurt no matter whos at fault he gets full coverage
Click to expand...


Well U pay more off the bottom running team but less off the bottom running single. Hmm
Sounds to me like when I run team I need a pay increase.

By the way U pay 23% off the bottom that a far better than my 21% off the bottom and Im the Lead Driver,
But U pay 33% off the Bottom Single Verses my 36% that wouldnt work with me.
I guess U give the good with the Bad.
But then again the next person I will be doing busines with will pay me off the Top 22% team and 38% off the top Single. :)

Why Because He knows How i run Full Bore.
 
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R

roosterwes

Seasoned Expediter
Same guy. Same deal. I am taking legal action. I'd like to talk to you. My email is [email protected]. Got some stuff that will blow your mind.


MsUsedExpdtr said:
We feel this is a great business to be in and we are NOT going to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch, but we are going to cover EVERY possibility before we dive in again.

We just learned a Very hard lesson by signing up with a new owner that is running expedite trucks that "DO NOT require a CDL".

We made it out alive , only broke, bruised and battered.

Some questions we have during our quest for a legitimate owner:

1. Can the owners that are advertising 60/40 split with 100% FSC to the drivers be taken seriously? Drivers are you receiving the FSC?

2. Are you receiving any portion of dead-head pay?

3. Are you receiving a percentage of detention, loading, unloading pay?

4. When you are 1100 miles from home or company headquarters and the owner "cant" pay you or says he deposited the money into your account 1 week ago but doesnt know why it isnt "in there yet",- would you turn down runs and sit until you saw the money in your account or keep on truckin?

5. When the contract states that owner will forward money for tolls but he only does this ONCE to get you out of the headquarters parking lot and then the future tolls come out of your pocket ( 3 MO thru New York State runs ) and you keep calling him asking and then begging for toll money (remember no paychecks YET) and he reassures you that he'll "put it into your account". Would you pull into the toll booth with NO money and just tie up traffic to get your point across on the 6 o'clock news or blow through the EZ pass lane and pay for a ticket.

6. When you accept a run and the owner tells you to have headquarters advance you 50% fuel money over qual- comm (which they do quickly) and then you pull in to fuel ,but there is no money on your fuel card because the owner is transferring money around between cards for his other trucks. What do you do?
Your choices are: 1.pay for fuel yourself to make the run on time and save face with your company. 2. Sit and wait for possible funds which will cost you the run and gain you a big, bad check mark beside your truck # at headquarters even though you explained the owners problem. 3. Leave the truck where it is and hitch-hike home.

Sorry, just venting a little frustration. :mad: I have never felt so used and abused in all my life and was just wondering how other owners are actually treating their drivers.

We really want to know how to avoid making the same mistake twice.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
 
L

late4dinner

Seasoned Expediter
LDB said:
They pay the insurance because it is their benefit not mine. If it comes into play they receive the entire benefit amount and I receive no part of it. I don't consider it unfair to have them cover that particular expense, especially considering how much else I take no portion of.
Click to expand...

I agree with Leo on this one. If the owner would pay for this insurance it would take an average of 10% of the drivers pay right back out of the owners pocket. That brings the owners pay to 30% or less.
 
Scuba

Scuba

Veteran Expediter
Someone can correct me if i am wrong but if you pay your drivers ins then they are an employee subject to payroll taxes. They are no longer contract workers by IRS rules
 
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