National Security Morons

[RLENT]

At the link below one will find an article which details the exact words - all 30 some of them - which the classification freaks at the State Department find so troubling that they thought it might cause the empire to fall .....

And so they sought to have the publishers of Peter Van Buren's book "We Meant Well: How I Helped Lose The Battle For The Hearts And Minds Of The Iraqi People" redact certain portions of the book because they could "harm U.S. national security interest."

What a frickin' joke .....

"Classified" Info In "We Meant Well"

I thought the first commenter on the post summed it pretty well:

"See, the issue here is that Mr. van Buren's book focuses on the failures of the State Department, when in fact we all know how successful the State Department's efforts were in Iraq. And, someday, the State Department is going to share those successes with the public. I'm sure of it. The reason they're not sharing them now can't be because they don't exist, but because they're so big and important the average American reader couldn't possible comprehend them all at once."

Yeah ..... what he said ....

 

[Turtle]

We have a very fragile empire, as most empires naturally are. Embarrassing items could, in fact, damage national security. Mogadishu isn't classified, but the fact that he worked there might be. And the US controlling the Iraqi intelligence budget might be embarrassing for both Iraq and the US, which could cause problems within Iraq and their credibility, and in turn ours, which could present a national security problem for both countries. I don't think it's a joke at all. Better safe than stupid, I always say.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

so I used to haul turbine blades that were xrayed in a nuclear reactor and they would always set off the detectors at the border....and the usual over to the "Truck" the officer would open the rear doors and place his hand held reader in there and walk away......I asked one day out of concern for my health...
what is the reading....his reply.....
Sorry that is National Security.....
well crap....
is it dangerous?....
Nope...
Then why walk away from the truck?
No Reply............

 

[layoutshooter]

Sounds like that guy was a bit warped. Radiation readings off of used non-military equipment have little to do with national security. Every time I load radmat I am either told or shown what the readings are. I have not hauled any load that exceeded safe limits. Every radmat load we have hauled has been in the proper containment vessel for the type of radmat. In fact, I would prefer to haul radmat than any other kind of hazmat.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I can't remember the type of rad it was...apparently there is no danger....a "soft" rad?...LOL
Maybe he did not want to tip his hand just how senstive the detectors are?....I mean they can "smell" if you've had even a stress test..the bells and whistles go off...

 

[jjoerger]

Sounds like that guy was a bit warped. Radiation readings off of used non-military equipment have little to do with national security. Every time I load radmat I am either told or shown what the readings are. I have not hauled any load that exceeded safe limits. Every radmat load we have hauled has been in the proper containment vessel for the type of radmat. In fact, I would prefer to haul radmat than any other kind of hazmat.

I would too, except for the ridiculous detention times.
They package it well enough to withstand a major collision or other type of accident.

 

[layoutshooter]

I can't remember the type of rad it was...apparently there is no danger....a "soft" rad?...LOL
Maybe he did not want to tip his hand just how senstive the detectors are?....I mean they can "smell" if you've had even a stress test..the bells and whistles go off...

I doubt that. We used the same detectors at our fire company. He was just being a typical "authority" figure. Had a lot of "power" in his own mind. It was low level stuff.

 

[layoutshooter]

I would too, except for the ridiculous detention times.
They package it well enough to withstand a major collision or other type of accident.

Yeah, there sure can be some wait times. We don't haul a lot of any kind of hazmat. We seldom carry more than one or two radmat loads a year. We often turn them down, they don't always pay all that well.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Speaking of National Security...I was just making breakfast and as I buttered my toast, it falls and of course falls buttered side down...now a thought crossed my mind...

If a toilet flushes in the opposite direction downunder.....would the toast fall buttered side up?

 

[cheri1122]

At the link below one will find an article which details the exact words - all 30 some of them - which the classification freaks at the State Department find so troubling that they thought it might cause the empire to fall .....

And so they sought to have the publishers of Peter Van Buren's book "We Meant Well: How I Helped Lose The Battle For The Hearts And Minds Of The Iraqi People" redact certain portions of the book because they could "harm U.S. national security interest."

What a frickin' joke .....

You probably didn't used to watch a tv program called 'Dinosaurs' [the one with the baby who yelled "Not the baby!" all the time] because I think I'm one of 8 people who actually liked it, but one of their gags was a megacorporation composed of every company in the US, whose name [and operating policies] was "Wesayso".
National security is a lot like 'wesayso', innit?

"Classified" Info In "We Meant Well"

I thought the first commenter on the post summed it pretty well:

"See, the issue here is that Mr. van Buren's book focuses on the failures of the State Department, when in fact we all know how successful the State Department's efforts were in Iraq. And, someday, the State Department is going to share those successes with the public. I'm sure of it. The reason they're not sharing them now can't be because they don't exist, but because they're so big and important the average American reader couldn't possible comprehend them all at once."

Yeah ..... what he said ....

 

[RLENT]

You probably didn't used to watch a tv program called 'Dinosaurs' [the one with the baby who yelled "Not the baby!" all the time] because I think I'm one of 8 people who actually liked it,

Actually, I did .... it was hilarious ....

but one of their gags was a megacorporation composed of every company in the US, whose name [and operating policies] was "Wesayso".

National security is a lot like 'wesayso', innit?

Yupper ......

 

[RLENT]

I can see that there is a need for some additional info required for a full understanding of this matter, so I will attempt to point to at least some of it:

Foreign Policy: How I Became A State Department Outcast

The above article itself has numerous links contained in it, referencing further details, which if read, provide a good overview of the matter.

We have a very fragile empire, as most empires naturally are.

The "empire", as it exists and is currently practiced, needs to go away, the sooner the better .... because if it doesn't, it will be the undoing of this nation ....

Embarrassing items could, in fact, damage national security.

Well, fortunately for us as a free nation and (relatively) open society, embarrassment alone is not a valid and legitimate criteria for classification (and neither is illegal activity) - from Executive Order 13526, which establishes the reasons and requirements for classification:

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.

(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:

(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;

(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;

(3) restrain competition; or

(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.​

Executive Order 13526 Part 1

Mogadishu isn't classified, but the fact that he worked there might be.

First off, one needs to understand who the indefinite personal pronoun "he", used in your sentence above refers to:

It DOES NOT refer to the author of the book.

It, in fact, refers to an un-named (and really largely unidentified and unidentifiable) CIA agent .....

And the US controlling the Iraqi intelligence budget might be embarrassing for both Iraq and the US, which could cause problems within Iraq and their credibility, and in turn ours, which could present a national security problem for both countries.

You figure that after invading, taking over their country, funding it by passing out Benjamins like they were confetti, and then having a very large hand in determining who rose to power, anyone really believes that we weren't controlling that .... and a whole lot more ?

Seriously ?

I don't think it's a joke at all.

When one considers that in the case of two of three requested redactions, one requested redaction came from the movie "Black Hawk Down", and another from George Tenet's published memoirs (that would be the very same George Tenet that is the former Director of the CIA BTW ) it's impossible for me to view the matter as anything but farcical .....

Better safe than stupid, I always say.

Unfortunately, stupidity, particularly governmental stupidity (which is what this whole episode actually is) is never any guarantee of safety .....

In fact, I'd be more inclined to believe that it guarantees something else entirely ....

 

[Turtle]

I can see that there is a need for some additional info required for a full understanding of this matter, so I will attempt to point to at least some of it:

Thanks for the insult. I appreciate it.

The "empire", as it exists and is currently practiced, needs to go away, the sooner the better .... because if it doesn't, it will be the undoing of this nation ....

All empires fall. All of them. Ours will, too.

Well, fortunately for us as a free nation and (relatively) open society, embarrassment alone is not a valid and legitimate criteria for classification (and neither is illegal activity) - from Executive Order 13526, which establishes the reasons and requirements for classification:

(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;

Doesn't mention preventing embarrassment to a nation.

First off, one needs to understand who the indefinite personal pronoun "he", used in your sentence above refers to:

First off, one already does understand who the indefinite personal pronoun "he" refers to.

It DOES NOT refer to the author of the book.

Yes, I know that. Never said, or implied, it did.

It, in fact, refers to an un-named (and really largely unidentified and unidentifiable) CIA agent .....

I know that, too.

You figure that after invading, taking over their country, funding it by passing out Benjamins like they were confetti, and then having a very large hand in determining who rose to power, anyone really believes that we weren't controlling that .... and a whole lot more ?

Seriously ?

No, I merely offered up a "might" as a thinking point, as a possibility, as an expanded alternative to more limited assumption.

When one considers that in the case of two of three requested redactions, one requested redaction came from the movie "Black Hawk Down", and another from George Tenet's published memoirs (that would be the very same George Tenet that is the former Director of the CIA BTW ) it's impossible for me to view the matter as anything but farcical .....

I understand.

Unfortunately, stupidity, particularly governmental stupidity (which is what this whole episode actually is) is never any guarantee of safety .....

Doesn't change the fact that I'd rather be safe than stupid. If I'm going to err, I'd rather err on the side of safety rather than on the side of stupidity. I don't think I'm unique in that.

In fact, I'd be more inclined to believe that it guarantees something else entirely ....

Hard to say with such a broad statement. While stupidity certainly doesn't guarantee safety, it doesn't necessarily guarantee danger, or something else, either. Sometimes stupidity is merely risk neutral.