Apply Now!

NASA Not Worthwhile? Hah!

Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Cheers! Crew drinks up recycled urine in space.

HOUSTON - At the international space station, it was one small sip for man and a giant gulp of recycled urine for mankind. Astronauts aboard the space station celebrated a space first on Wednesday by drinking water that had been recycled from their urine, sweat and water that condenses from exhaled air.

The new system takes the combined urine of the crew from the toilet, moves it to a big tank, where the water is boiled off, and the vapor collected. The water vapor is mixed with water from air condensation, then it goes through filters, much like those put on home taps.

When six crew members are aboard it can make about six gallons from urine in about six hours.

The technology NASA developed for this system has already been used for quick water purification after the 2004 Asian tsunami.


The implications for expediting boggle the mind! :D
 
Moot

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Wow that's amazing - how many millions went into this one?

It sounds like Distillation to me... oh it is......

Now can we apply it to something useful?
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"Wow that's amazing - how many millions went into this one?"

A scant $350 million. Cheap at twice the price. Took 10 years to develop, in a partnership between NASA and Michigan Tech University.

The basic idea is the same, but distillation is a little different in a weightless environment. On Earth, it's a simple process, but without gravity contaminants never separate from the water no matter how much it is heated. Artificial gravity and special filters are used. Even on Earth some organics and solvents are left behind in the water. In space, those have to be gotten rid of, and it's not an easy process, or an efficient one. For $250 million, you get easy and efficient.

Turning Urine Into Water For Space Station Recycling
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I read about it Turtle, I know the reason they used MTU but $350M?

Not what I call good use of our money regardless. How much will this actually save us in the next 10 years in our shuttle (what ever is next) missions?

I don't care about the International Space Station when others involved are hostile toward us.

Could this have been done for less in the private sector using less then the 16 years it took to develope - meaning outside of the university setting?

Outside of handing this to the international community where we are already dhanding them too much, where can we transfer the technology in our country to make improvements to our lives?
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
greg334 said:
I read about it Turtle, I know the reason they used MTU but $350M?

Not what I call good use of our money regardless. How much will this actually save us in the next 10 years in our shuttle (what ever is next) missions?
Click to expand...
It costs about $15,000 a pint to ship water into space, then there's the storage problem.


Could this have been done for less in the private sector using less then the 16 years it took to develope - meaning outside of the university setting?
Click to expand...
And yet it wasn't. The private sector has had a long time to develop this, yet they didn't. There isn't any immediate return on investment because they wouldn't have been developing it with profitability as the primary goal. There is simply no reason for private industry to develop the kinds of systems for water purification in a weightless environment. Yet now that it's been done, there are applications for the same technology here on Earth.

Outside of handing this to the international community where we are already dhanding them too much, where can we transfer the technology in our country to make improvements to our lives?
Click to expand...
It will make water treatment plants more efficient as well as being able to remove impurities that are not removed presently. It will certainly help in natural disasters where not nearly as much water will have to be trucked in. It can turn toxic, contanimated well water into potable water. Lots of applications are likely to come from this.
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Turtle said:
It costs about $15,000 a pint to ship water into space, then there's the storage problem.
Click to expand...

That is for the ISS, what about our projects?

The storage problem has been there forever, and there were other sources of water on board, they still have to have so much fresh water on board to begin with. Maybe cutting back on brushing teeth and washing their long hair may be a solution too....How about some food that has water in it to supliment the water needs of the people on board? What will that add in weight?

Turtle said:
And yet it wasn't. The private sector has had a long time to develop this, yet they didn't. There isn't any immediate return on investment because they wouldn't have been developing it with profitability as the primary goal. There is simply no reason for private industry to develop the kinds of systems for water purification in a weightless environment. Yet now that it's been done, there are applications for the same technology here on Earth.
Click to expand...

I think that if there was a need for it, then it would have happened in the private sector but without a marketable use outside of NASA/International Community, there was no incentive for a company to pick it up or even know about the problems to find a solution - this is not like it was in the 60's under the space program where NASA was open about their problems and asking for solutions, they have become bloated with a lot of these pet projects that can be paired down and managed easier in other places. But if NASA came up with a use for it here on earth, a real use without stating that there may be a future technology transfer, then it may have made a difference. ALSO NASA doesn't look for cheap solutions, they have had a habit of using universities and long established companies to do the work in 'partnership' with them some of it comes from the lobbying of NASA from these universities and companies to begin with.

Turtle said:
It will make water treatment plants more efficient as well as being able to remove impurities that are not removed presently. It will certainly help in natural disasters where not nearly as much water will have to be trucked in. It can turn toxic, contanimated well water into potable water. Lots of applications are likely to come from this.
Click to expand...

How? The water treatment plants deal in quantity, a few, very few use modren high pressure filtering systems and many in our country are out of date at that. The cost to retrofit this 'new' system is far more than to update what we already use.

Natural disasters? Is that it?

If they can ship food, they can ship water or portable distillation units in which have been around for ever and do a good job stabilizing water supplies. The lack of concerns and especially the cost of preparation for disasters seems to be waining for a long time - one reason why I am out of work.
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It's about fifteen grand a pint whether it's going to the Space Station, the Moon or to Mars. If you can cut the amount of water needed to lug up and store by 50-65%, that's huge. That weight, and space, can be used for other things.

NASA doesn't exist solely to make life better or cheaper for us down here. They have other things going on, as well. NASA isn't in business to create things for use here on Earth. The create things for use in the space program, with many of the technologies then later being applied to us down here. As for water treatment plants, I'm pretty sure that in order to retrofit an existing plant it won't take 10 years and $350 million of research in order to do it. In any case, regardless of how much conventional updating you do to current treatment plants, there are simply too many non-absorbent organics and pharmaceuticals that cannot be removed by conventional processes.

I realize some believe that a penny spent by NASA is a penny spent foolishly. Fortunately, those are in the minority.
 
T

theoldprof

Veteran Expediter
Don't throw away the Old Prof's Preferred Patented Plastic Pee Pipe just yet. The processing equipment could cost more that $4.88 and weigh more than the capacity of a truck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top