Mrs. O's "Shared Sacrifice".....
- Thread starter dieseldiva
- Start date
clcooper
Expert Expediter
the thinking come what you post about the entitlement crowd .
and when i say 1 person is worth the money but 100 people arent .all i get back is the poor lasy people dont deserve any money because they are to lazy to work hard .
who is the entitlement crowd is it just the poor people who are just so lazy they dont want to work . or is the entitlement crowd the companies that get millions handed to them every year to stay in business . (which is free market right and the way it should be )
i ask what are the standards . so the guy that had a job and is working hard has a family doesnt go to school because the job he has he is happy with all around .
but one day the bottom drops . now he has no job and he is told he should of worked harder . because he does not have enough skills and need 3 to 5 years worth of that skill . most jobs are looking for that are hiring and there is only a few that are doing any type of hiring .
he still has a house payment . and others to feed . he gets to much unemployment to get any grants for school now
what does he do when he hears somebody telling him he is lazy because he has no job (and that would be from the heartless people )
do you know you can get a dog to meow like a cat to if you train it long enough .
come on not everybody is like the ones you see on the streets every day begging for money
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
CL, your answer to your "poor me" post is in a PM to you....I sent it there because if i posted it here, chances are I'd get kicked out for a while...so lets leave it at you and i know i know you better then most posting here do and that should be enough to understand why i havent said much in all of your rants up until now....and a PM was the right place to do it....
Actually, you started the thread with a quote from an opinion piece from a Blog, and it's one with a flawed premise and incorrect assumptions and conclusions.
"No matter who is the president, the opposition party delights in criticizing him for taking time off, billing it as insensitive to the problems of struggling Americans, demonstrating aristocratic excess, an astounding waste of taxpayer's money, or betraying some hedonistic character flaw." - that's a quote from me, from one year and one day ago. Nothing's changed. Junior had 77 separate trips to Crawford during his presidency. Mrs. Junior often preceded him or flew in later. What kind of messages does that send in the context of global warming to the budget deficit to the economy? More importantly, where's Mr. Koffler's outrage and comments on the Bush family's traveling itinerary?
The premise of the "news story" above is a flawed premise, because it assumes too much. Keith Koffler does this often. He whined about it the last time they went to Martha's Vineyard, including the whining about the dog having it's own personal plane (which was untrue), and he whined about in December when Michelle took a separate flight to Hawaii. He makes up numbers for what it will cost. At least he usually qualifies it with a "probably" cost the taxpayer this or that. But it's still made up. If you can't show how much it is or where it's being spent, then it's just a number yanked outta yer butt. It's like the $200 million per day for Obama's visit to India, a number championed by Michelle Bachman (you remember her, right?). Turns out the number was barely a fraction of that, and cheaper than most overseas travels by the presidents. But those are pesky facts, I understand that.
Koffler assumes it will cost taxpayers "thousands in additional expenses to get her a few hours of extra vacation time." But he doesn't know that.
He then proceeds to assume his invented premise is real with, "The extra costs related to Mrs. Obama’s solo trip mainly include the flight on a specially designed military aircraft she took instead of Air Force One, as well as any extra staff and Secret Service that had to be enlisted to go with her." He doesn't have a clue whether "the extra costs" are even extra at all. He assumes they are.
He also says she took a "specially designed military aircraft" which isn't entirely accurate, as it's a specially designed aircraft which was specially designed not for the military, but for presidential air travel. The same exact plane has many design outfittings, including the military, corporate, passenger and presidential.
He also assumes that "extra" staff and Secret Service had to be enlisted for the trip. That's absolutely not true.
He also assumes the president flew in later on Air Force One. He made the same kind of assumption a year ago with their Martha's Vineyard vacation. Technically, any plane the president flies on is designated as Air Force One, but the primary plane which is Air Force One (and Air Force Two) cannot fly into Martha's Vineyard because it's too big to land there, and the smaller Gulf Stream GIII "Air Force One" jets are used.
The Gulf Stream GIII is a two or three-crew executive, corporate transport jet. It is same as the military's C-20 series of planes, and is configured as a C-20C, which is the same as the C-20B except it has hardened communications.
It is the standard backup plane that accompanies the Boeing VC-25A on all flights when the VC-25A is operating as Air Force One. It's that flight that Michelle Obama flew.
When the C-20C is operating as Air Force One, two additional planes are generally needed to carry everyone in the group, including the family, personal aids, political aids, Secret Service, and the press pool and whoever else is tagging along. In this case, instead of two additional planes accompanying the president, only one did so, because the second one was the one Michelle took already. No extra plane, no extra dollars, no extra nothing. It was routine and would have happened anyway, just like last year at Martha's Vineyard, and just like the Hawaii vacation, and just like every other trip the president takes. No extra staff, no extra Secret Service, no extra fuel, no extra anything. Yet the brilliantly insightful Mr. Koffler is able to conclude that it costs thousands of additional dollars. And people read it and believe it.
The premise above also includes the assumption that the First Lady and the President traveling separately to a vacation spot is either rare or unprecedented. Laura Bush took more separate flights to just Crawford, TX than the two Obama's have taken separate flights, combined.
Junior spent 1020 days on vacation, 487 days at Camp David, 490 days at Crawford Ranch, and 43 days at Kennebunkport Compound. That's more than 1/3 of his presidency on vacation. He played golf more than once. Carter took 79 days in 4 years. Clinton took 152 days in 8 years. Reagan took 335 days in 8 years. Bush Sr. took 543 days in 4 years. Obama has spent less time on vacation at this point in his presidency than anyone other than Carter.
It still amazes me that people think when the president goes on vacation that he does like the rest of us, where he leaves all his work at the office and doesn't even think about it while on vacation.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
You are right, I stand corrected......BUT that doesn't change the facts, nor does any of the rest of your argument.
Yes, there's always a big deal made of President's vacation from the opposing party but how often is he criticized by his own?
It doesn't matter whether they flew to MV on a 747, a jet stream, or a broom, if they're not flying on the same plane, it's costing extra money. That's one problem.
I think the bigger problem might be the location of the vacation. He's really big on pushing his "class warfare", every week we have someone new we're supposed to hate. You know the list, I don't have to repeat it here.....those rich people are so greedy and it's their fault that you're poor and I think I'll just take my vacation relaxing on their golf courses, etc. and basically just rubbing elbows with them. See what I'm saying?
Did you see the news clips from the job fair in Atlanta yesterday? More importantly, did he?? It's not a pretty sight and it's one that he should think about as the black caucus is going public with their dissatisfaction with him.
You use the word "whine" about the author of the piece, are you suggesting we don't have the right to expect the first family to set an example of the "shared sacrifice" that he so often speaks of? Jeepers, even Jimmy Carter walked the walk by turning the thermostats down in the white house when he was suggesting it to the rest of the country. (I can't believe I just gave Carter a compliment
) Leaders are supposed to lead by example, where's Obama's??
tbubster
Seasoned Expediter
A gulf stream 3 uses 3000 pounds of fuel for the first hour then 2000 pounds after that.Jet fuel for the year has been around 128 dollars a pound.Now for one plane that cost tax payers 384,000 dollars.times that by two and you get 768,000.and thats just one hour.now lets face it in a jet that goes 550mph at top speed from washington dc to MV maybe a little more then an hour.Thats just one way.Now you talk about round trip and that brings the total up to 1,536,000 Now thats alot of tax payer money just for travel on one trip.
Now I really dont have any problem with any man going on vacation.However Obama is the man that keeps preaching the need for shared sacrifice.Maybe he could have shown us some of that shared sacrifice and taken the knew 1.1 million dollar tour bus the secret service just bought.Hey his wife and kids could have taken the other bus that the SS also paid 1.1 million tax payer dollars for.Two buses totaling 2.2 million dolars.Now I know it would have been more trouble for Obama and the SS but even with all the cars in the motorcade they still would not have spent even close to 1,536,000 in fuel.They could have taken the tour buses to any of 5 different spots that the ferry picks people up at to take to the island.Then they could have got off the bus and gotten into any car in the motorcade and had themselfs a nice boat ride.
Maybe it is just he really does not care about shared sacrifice.Or maybe he is afraid that the fact that those 2 tour buses that cost tax payers 2.2 million dollars were bought from a company in another country instead of one of the bus makers here in america
Jet Fuel Price Monitor
Now I really dont have any problem with any man going on vacation.However Obama is the man that keeps preaching the need for shared sacrifice.Maybe he could have shown us some of that shared sacrifice and taken the knew 1.1 million dollar tour bus the secret service just bought.Hey his wife and kids could have taken the other bus that the SS also paid 1.1 million tax payer dollars for.Two buses totaling 2.2 million dolars.Now I know it would have been more trouble for Obama and the SS but even with all the cars in the motorcade they still would not have spent even close to 1,536,000 in fuel.They could have taken the tour buses to any of 5 different spots that the ferry picks people up at to take to the island.Then they could have got off the bus and gotten into any car in the motorcade and had themselfs a nice boat ride.
Maybe it is just he really does not care about shared sacrifice.Or maybe he is afraid that the fact that those 2 tour buses that cost tax payers 2.2 million dollars were bought from a company in another country instead of one of the bus makers here in america
Jet Fuel Price Monitor
Last edited:
I'm not trying to change the facts, I'm trying to introduce some into the thread, as inconvenient as they may be. The first sentence of the "article", half of it is a fact, the second half is not. The second paragraph is true. Everything else in the article is opinions, not facts. No facts to change, really, and the few which are there I made no attempt in changing.
Very rarely. Hypocrisy knows no party allegiance.
I would say rather than "one" problem, it's "THE" problem. The reason it's THE problem is that regardless of whether they fly on the same plane or not, TWO planes are gonna fly: either both together, or the one the president is not on will arrive before (or more rarely, after) the president does. Just like what happened here. Not one extra dime was spent over them flying in the same plane at the same time.
Now, if you want to argue that flying two planes costs extra dollars when both the president and the first lady ride in the same plane, that's another argument, but one having nothing to do with the President or the First Lady. The two-plane decision is one that was made 50 years ago in a joint decision by the Secret Service and the Military.
Yeah, I do. Where should he go for vacation, then?
No, I didn't see it. Sure glad I'm not the important one.
I have no idea what happened in Atlanta, but I know there have been several rather ugly job fairs in recent times. It's almost like people looking for work feel they are entitled to be offered a job.
You said it right there, I used the word about the author - no one else.
As for what should expect, or have the right to expect, yes, I agree with you, to a certain extent. What I don't agree with is when people literally make up stuff, presents a flawed premise based on that fiction, and then whine about it as if it's true. That's Keith Kloffer's bead and butter right there, he does it a lot (I read his stuff often, half the Blogosphere uses his stuff). And people read it and believe it, which is more the pity.
The reason I qualified my agreement with "to a certain extent" is, I have to wonder just what kind of sacrifice The President of the United Stated of America is supposed to make in order to appease his detractors, primarily the members of the opposing political party?
That last question is a loaded question, as it assumes something to be true, which is not necessarily true. Leaders aren't "supposed" to lead by example. Leading by example is but one of many tactics used in leadership. That's why it's called leading by example, as there are many other ways to lead. True enough, the best leaders lead by example, practicing what they preach instead of the old "do as I say, not as I do" type of leader. But what exactly is Obama doing that falls into the "do as I say, not as I do" category? Has he told America not to take vacations or something? No, he told Democrats and Republicans in Congress to engage in "shared sacrifice" to help break the debt ceiling stalemate that led ratings agencies and top US lender China to sound the alarm over US credit worthiness. He wasn't talking about vacations or thermostats or anything else. Now, he's supposed to have this post-Labor Day speech outlining his plans for job growth and to cut deficits by more than the $1.5 trillion that a “supercommittee” in Congress is tasked with achieving. If that happens, there's your example.Jeepers, even Jimmy Carter walked the walk by turning the thermostats down in the white house when he was suggesting it to the rest of the country. (I can't believe I just gave Carter a compliment
clcooper
Expert Expediter
A gulf stream 3 uses 3000 pounds of fuel for the first hour then 2000 pounds after that.Jet fuel for the year has been around 128 dollars a pound.Now for one plane that cost tax payers 384,000 dollars.times that by two and you get 768,000.and thats just one hour.now lets face it in a jet that goes 550mph at top speed from washington dc to MV maybe a little more then an hour.Thats just one way.Now you talk about round trip and that brings the total up to 1,536,000 Now thats alot of tax payer money just for travel on one trip.
Now I really dont have any problem with any man going on vacation.However Obama is the man that keeps preaching the need for shared sacrifice.Maybe he could have shown us some of that shared sacrifice and taken the knew 1.1 million dollar tour bus the secret service just bought.Hey his wife and kids could have taken the other bus that the SS also paid 1.1 million tax payer dollars for.Two buses totaling 2.2 million dolars.Now I know it would have been more trouble for Obama and the SS but even with all the cars in the motorcade they still would not have spent even close to 1,536,000 in fuel.They could have taken the tour buses to any of 5 different spots that the ferry picks people up at to take to the island.Then they could have got off the bus and gotten into any car in the motorcade and had themselfs a nice boat ride.
Maybe it is just he really does not care about shared sacrifice.Or maybe he is afraid that the fact that those 2 tour buses that cost tax payers 2.2 million dollars were bought from a company in another country instead of one of the bus makers here in america
Jet Fuel Price Monitor
i have been trying to say this all week .
but i get the poor lazy worker on unemployment because their company moved oversea need to make the sacrifices not the rich big companies
paullud
Veteran Expediter
Politicians wasting money have nothing to do with people not being able to get jobs, however them wasting money on those that chose not to work causes the unemployed and lazy to not work.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
The "shared sacrifice" that I was talking about had nothing to do with what he told congress. It's his constant calling for "balance"......his attempts at instigating class warfare, there's an awful lot of people in this country that buy into that but don't seem to be able to see that the very people that he complains about not paying their share (the wealthy) are the ones that he chooses to surround himself with. Maybe I'm a little old fashioned but I don't think it looks good for a president to vacation in a home that rents for $50,000 a WEEK when so many are without jobs, etc.
clcooper
Expert Expediter
""Politicians wasting money have nothing to do with people not being able to get jobs""
do you even understand what you typed
do Politicians waste money???
like i have said before people should learn to read and understand what they read . because i have said that before about them wasting money but people must ignored that . must be because people like to judge and as soon as they see it was me they chose to ignore what i said .
clcooper
Expert Expediter
just remember he is rich and worked hard all his life to get there and never asked for hand outs . (exept for the ones that wanted him to vote for their law.)
how much does it also cost for the white house during that week too .
so the leader of a country . by the people spends 50,000 for 4 people and a dog . for one week while the people he swore to protect are homeless and straving .
the ones that say they support the Constitution .
what is the presidents job .???
is it just to fly around in air force 1 all the time or does he really have a JOB to do .
Oh, sorry, I was confused. When you mentioned "shared sacrifice" in quotes, I just assumed you meant it in the same context in which Obama used it himself, rather than meaning it in some other completely unrelated context.
OK, so who, exactly, should The President of the United States of American, and leader of the Free World, hang out with while on vacation?
So, apparently, you think The President of the United Stated of America, the leader of the Free World, should have simply given ol' Tom Bodett a hollar to have him leave the light on for him at the Possum Trot Motel 6, maybe put a key under the mat at room 17?
paullud
Veteran Expediter
I understand exactly what I wrote, the amount of money that the Obamas spent did not cause anyone to lose their job, it is annoying though. Yes politicians waste money on entitlements that keep people from getting a job.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
paullud
Veteran Expediter
No he hasn't worked hard all his life and he has taken handouts.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
It's President Dummy who chose to play the class warfare game. We are merely calling him out when he hob nobs with the richy rich libs on some island away from the hoy ploy. He can vacation at Camp David like the most do. Yes Bush vacationed more but it was at his ranch, not some ritzy getaway place. He doesn't have to stay at econobudget motel just away from the $50 thous. a night places. That's all we ask. Oh and stop playing golf so much and start reading some conservative books from Mark Levin, Milton Freidman, or Art Laffer. That's all we ask. Oh and stop going to so many fundraisers for your reeelection. You've gone to more than your predessessors. That's all.
Oh and he can take as many vacations as he wants after Nov.of 2012. Good news: Obama’s actually taken way less vacation than Reagan or Bush « Hot Air
Oh and he can take as many vacations as he wants after Nov.of 2012.
Good news: Obama’s actually taken way less vacation than Reagan or Bush « Hot Air
Last edited:
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
And now, from MSNBC, a comparison bubbling over with common sense.......Obama Vacation Okay Because Palin Quit Her Job.....which only serves to kick dirt at the opposition like the 3rd graders they are......oh yeah, so what, take this!! GOOD GRIEF
When you complain about things, but fail to offer up alternatives or solutions to a problem, all you're doing is complaining for the sake of complaining. This is also known as bіcthіn', whinin' and moaning. 'Don't vacation on Martha's Vineyard.' OK, where is an acceptable alternative vacation spot? 'Don't stay in a $50,000 a week home.' OK, what's the acceptable weekly rate for a presidential vacation? Where, exactly, should be stay? 'Don't rub elbows with the rich.' OK, what's the income cap for acceptable elbow-rubbing?
It's the absurdity of it all. On both sides. I mean, on a scale of 10 to 10, it's obvious just how pretend furious this makes some people. Yes, Palin quit her job, like every other job she's ever had, and yes it's just stomp-yer-feet infuriating when people bring that up. So what if she wanted to take a really, really long vacation? It's with book and reality TV show money, not taxpayer money!
Meanwhile, Congress is on vacation for a month, many of whom are hob nobbing with rich libs and rich cons away from the hoi polloi.
Then there's Mittens Kittens, also campaigning for the unemployed and downtrodden everyday man, who couldn't let such a populist "class warfare" bandwagon pass without hitching a ride, mocked Obama's Martha's Vineyard island vacation several times this past week, at one point saying that Obama should cancel his 10 day vacation, go back to his office, recall Congress, and get the job done. "This action of somehow this is campaign time and vacation time is exactly the wrong dose of medicine for the American economy,” Romney said.
Unfortunately, he didn't check his own travel itinerary which puts him on the same island at the same time as Obama this weekend, hosting a $2,500-a-plate butter-dipped lobsterfest fundraiser for I assume, the poor, downtrodden commoners on the other side of the island from Obama. All this makes me very pretend furious. <snort>
It's the absurdity of it all. On both sides. I mean, on a scale of 10 to 10, it's obvious just how pretend furious this makes some people. Yes, Palin quit her job, like every other job she's ever had, and yes it's just stomp-yer-feet infuriating when people bring that up. So what if she wanted to take a really, really long vacation? It's with book and reality TV show money, not taxpayer money!
Meanwhile, Congress is on vacation for a month, many of whom are hob nobbing with rich libs and rich cons away from the hoi polloi.
Then there's Mittens Kittens, also campaigning for the unemployed and downtrodden everyday man, who couldn't let such a populist "class warfare" bandwagon pass without hitching a ride, mocked Obama's Martha's Vineyard island vacation several times this past week, at one point saying that Obama should cancel his 10 day vacation, go back to his office, recall Congress, and get the job done. "This action of somehow this is campaign time and vacation time is exactly the wrong dose of medicine for the American economy,” Romney said.
Unfortunately, he didn't check his own travel itinerary which puts him on the same island at the same time as Obama this weekend, hosting a $2,500-a-plate butter-dipped lobsterfest fundraiser for I assume, the poor, downtrodden commoners on the other side of the island from Obama. All this makes me very pretend furious. <snort>
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Thank you!