MPG from differant truck stop brands

EagleRiverWI

Seasoned Expediter
Has anyone noticed any improvements in quality and mpg when switching to a new truck stop brand?
I used to go to Pilot because they are everywhere, and with my old company, I was always looking for places to get a small amount of fuel just to get by. With the new company and their TA discount, I switched. The discount was 47.6 cents a gallon in Duncan, SC yesterday, 22 cents in Indiana . Does brand make a differance, or should I stick with the company discount?
 

fastman_1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well from my Experince with my Cargo Van (Gas Engine) I used to rock with Shell and Any Flying J Always Up the Mileage by at least 1 MPG, And those No name Fuel Stops always Dropped by a 1/2 Mpg, Can't Speak of Diesel since it's Been 25 years since I drove one,
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Flying J is a dichotomy. You'll generally get great fuel mileage with their gasolines, but not so much with their diesel. Flying J owns two large refineries outright (one in North Salt Lake, and they bought Shell's Bakersfield, CA refinery last year), and own majority stake in 4 (maybe 5) other refineries, as well as minority stakes in several others. They also own Longhorn Pipeline, the 700 mile-long pipeline across Texas. They make a lot of their own diesel.

At most Flying J locations its diesel has a cetane level slightly below that of most other retailers (which is why they tend to be a few cents cheaper than surrounding fuel stops). Flying J's diesel is always at least 40 cetane, and up to 45 cetane, but usually in the lower 40's. Others are usually at least 45 cetane, up to 50 cetane. (CARB diesel is 50 minimum, BTW).

I'm still gathering data, but it looks like the increased fuel mileage of TA diesel offsets the extra cost, even when you figure in the cost of a free van shower at the J. It'll take several more fuelings to gather enough data to make it mean anything. I haven't fueled up enough at Pilot, Loves or the Petro yet in order to make any kind of determination on those. But early results show nearly a 10% increase, a little more than 2 MPG, with TA fuels versus Flying J fuels. That's a lot.

But, the question will be, is buying the cheaper Flying J fuel, and then adding a cetane boost to get the same mileage as with TA fuel, the same price as buying TA fuel in the first place (and for a van driver, with the added cost of buying a shower on top of that)?

Worldwide, diesel engine makers are pushing for adoption of the WWFC (World-Wide Fuels Charter) which would have us using fuel with 55 minimum cetane and near-zero sulfur levels, which will aid in reducing cold start emission, raising fuel economy, and cut engine noise. That'll probably be expensive fuel. The higher cetane fuel also goes against the new engine that CAT is developing (the HCCI, or Ultra-low-emissions homogenous charge compression ignition) which runs with dramatically fewer emissions and greater fuel economy on 45 and lower cetane, but just the opposite at higher levels of cetane.
 

EagleRiverWI

Seasoned Expediter
Thanks. I think I will stay with TA for now. I wish Pilot gave the same discount as TA because I like the idea of being able to get LSD instead of ULSD where Pilot has 2 locations at the same exit.
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
I never get the same mpg tank to tank even on a long load carrying the same payload. I document everythiing when it comes to fuel for comparison, miles, fuel co. wind, rain, terain, and the mpg. Example Loves fueled at same location up/back N Baltimore OH with no fill up in between close to same weight and same route. Averaged a difference of over and half mpg P.S. same speeds or close to it.

Why? Weather? = close to the same.

I cannot come up with a reason why a difference just is.

Same goes for Pilot Vs Loves or otherwise I see no reason to over pay I look for the cleanest showers and easiest convience or fewest trucks in Lot for my decision. Now I say that Wilco is not on my list for ease or convience. Go inside stand behind 12 drivers to just turn the pump on. Fuel and go back and repeat process above.

DISORGINIZED, and customer dissatisfaction is the Managements philsophy. Staff friendly and helpfull but one person can only do what management will allow. Never stop at a Wilco at 11PM shut all pumps down, lock the doors and count the $ and relcear everything.

So ya sit and wait and for how long? You sit and you wait. Or better yet two Fridays ago at 8PM at Salisbury OUT OF FUEL. Maybee if they turned the sign off on the X-way I would have figured out something but NOOOO let me pull in to find plastic garbage bags on every pump. Gee THANK YOU WILCO. Why do I keep going back?
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Hi ,Harry potter ( aka : broompilot)
good job.
Do you check the fuel temp. ?
Hot fuel might be the rezone .
Moose.
 

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
I have seen others mention getting less mpg with Flying J diesel and experienced it myself . I had mostly used Flying J but after I had a dispute with a manager when I accidently used the wrong card at the pump and she refused to let me pay cash to get the cash price I quit using Flying J and noticed a significant increase in mpg .
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
here in Ontario Fly J used to buy fuel from Esso and now mostly from Shell. They have also made a deal with Shell for several of their Acces truck stops card lock stations here. Now under the old Esso fuel several guys running the Duramax engined trucks reported lower fuel mileage some as bad as over 2mpg. Years ago I used to buy BP (british petroleum) fuel as I found I got the best mileage out of it but when they were absorbed by Petro Canada they used the Gulf Oil fuel mixture and it was not as good. Now I have it figured at Sunoco, Shell, Husky, Esso in that order for mpg. On gasoline these numbers come up with as much a 2-2.5mpg and diesel a little lower difference. Petro Can stuff is funny as it seems to vary but not sure why yet. Personally don't use it in the truck but use a 2 cent per litre discount card for the cars. Their price for diesel is usually higher than the rest, except in Napanee (exit 579 off 401) as they match Flying J for pricing. The Pioneer stations some of you see were buying Sunoco fuel and I've seen the Sunoco trucks in their stations so quality fuel but not always lower priced anymore (think there's a little price fixing there???).
Rob
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Esso diesel always seemed "thin" and mileage was lower. Agree on the order you got them in Rob, Sunoco seems to be best using the regular or premium diesel (truck smokes less on the premium).

Also had really good results with QT in Missouri. Usually a solid 1-2 mpg improvement.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
Piper 1,

Here may be the reason QT fuel showed an increase in mpg's.

Also, as noted by other Canadians, Sunoco fuel purchased in Canada. Interesting how Sunoco Canada gets a "top tier" rating, but not Sunoco USA.

Yes, many J's are Shell and across the south many of them have Conoco, both run great in my 6.0L. I like to fuel in Missouri because the price is excellent and they have Phillips 66 too!

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers

Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.

In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Texaco
MFA Oil Co.
Conoco
Phillips 66
76
Entec Stations
Shell
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Turkey Hill Minit Markets
Mileage Stations
Chevron Canada
Shell Canada
Petro-Canada
Sunoco Canada
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Is there a "top tier" list for us diesel folks Rev?

I read that Sunoco Canada (Suncor) has a lot to do with Phillips 66 in Colorado (I think). Bought P66 diesel on the Kansas Pike once and it was good...and is always 10 cents cheaper than the J in Emporia!
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
One little tidbit of info for you in canada is that Sunoco and Ultramar have a sharing deal of west of Quebec Sunoco supplies the stations with fuel, both Sunoco and Ultramar (in fact many Ultramar stations are rebranded) and in Quebec and parts east they use fuel from the large Montreal Ultramar refinery. Now in the past Ultramar was not too bad and I know a few guys that used to like it for mileage. I never had any probs with their fuel when used and no loss of mileage.
Rob
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
I have not found any "Top Tier" lists for diesel fuel, but I have to believe that these manufacturers would take the same level of skill is refining diesel fuel as they have for their gasoline.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There isn't likely to ever be a Top Tier list for diesel, since the term Top Tier is one used for gasolines with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards, that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA, developed by four automotive companies: BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota. It provides better protection against the build-up of carbon deposits on intake valves and fuel injectors, as compared to low-detergent gasolines.

While the EPA mandates a Deposit Control additive in gasoline, it actually prohibits it in diesel. (Title 40, CFR part 79.55 )

For gasolines, the EPA requires the following additives:
Deposit Control
Corrosion Inhibitor
Demulsifier
Anti-oxidant
Metal Deactivator


For diesel, the EPA requires the following additives:
Corrosion Inhibitor
Demulsifier
Anti-oxidant
Metal Deactivator

The EPA allows the following additives:
Anti-static
Flow Improver

The following is Not Permitted as a diesel fuel additive:
Deposit Control


Gasoline is a manufactured product, diesel is a distilled product. That's why gasoline can have tighter standards and is why the octane rating can be so consistent.

With diesel, the quality of crude can vary so much from tanker to tanker that a consistent cetane rating is nearly impossible, although different types of crude can be blended to achieve a certain range. Most diesel leaves the refinery at about a 42 cetane rating, but it can be higher or lower. At the pump it's supposed to be 45 cetane, but it can be anywhere from 40 to 46. Regular diesel is 40-46 and Premium diesel is 45-50. CARB diesel is 50 minumum. (Flying J refines a lot of their own diesel, and they obviously do a lot of blending with cheap heavy crude, cause they sure seem to have a really consistent 40 cetane. <snicker>)

But, the reason you rarely see a cetane sticker on a diesel pump, the same way you do for octane on gasoline, is because of the inconsistency of diesel cetane.

This is a long-winded way of saying, no, they don't necessarily put forth the same skill in refining diesel as they do for gasoline, because diesel isn't manufactured like gasoline, it's distilled like moonshine, and can be just as inconsistent as moonshine can be. :D
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well Turtle, I don't know how you run your still, but my 'shine has been very consistent and rather good....:p
 
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