More Dictatorship?

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is REALLY getting out of control. WHY are we allowing this to continue? URGING the president to bypass congress? Sound like TREASON to me. It is up to us to fix this and we had BETTER do it quickly.


Democrats urge Obama to be ready to bypass Congress on debt cap



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Top Democratic senators urged President Barack Obama on Friday to be ready to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval in order to avert a damaging debt default.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and his leadership team said Obama should use "any lawful steps" under his authority to "ensure that America does not break its promises and trigger a global economic crisis."

They urged Obama to act on his own if Republicans insist on a debt limit extension that is coupled with "unbalanced or unreasonable" spending cuts.

Democrats are anticipating another possible deadlock over the debt limit in Congress and hope a unilateral move, or the threat of one, by Obama would avoid a replay of the 2011 fight that pushed the country to the brink of default.

Obama has vowed not to negotiate with Republicans on the debt ceiling.

Republican reaction to Reid's letter showed no willingness to back down from their deands that spending cuts be part of the debt limit debate.

"The Democrat leadership hiding under their desks and hoping the president will find a way around the law on the nation's maxed-out credit card is not only the height of irresponsibility, but also a guarantee that our national debt crisis will only get worse," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell.

Michael Steel, a spokesman for House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner, said, "The American people will not tolerate an increase in the debt limit without spending cuts and reforms."

Some analysts and Democrats believe the 14th Amendment of the Constitution gives the president the authority to raise the $16.4 trillion debt ceiling unilaterally.

That provision states the validity of government debt shall not be questioned. But the White House has so far ruled it out. One Senate Democratic aide said other legal options were being explored.
The U.S. Treasury is shuffling funds around to continue paying government bills. Those accounting maneuvers are due to run their course around mid-February.

"We believe that you must make clear that you will never allow our nation's economy and reputation to be held hostage," said the letter, signed by Reid and the three other leading Senate Democrats.
Republicans have said they will only approve a debt ceiling increase if it is accompanied by spending cuts and changes to big government programs Social Security and Medicare.

The Democratic leaders agreed that the borrowing cap increase should be separate from a deficit reduction plan. They said any fiscal deal should include spending cuts as well as additional revenue from the wealthy and the elimination of certain tax breaks.

(Editing by Doina Chiacu and Peter Cooney)







Democrats urge Obama to be ready to bypass Congress on debt cap - Yahoo! News
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
If Obama just goes and uses executive powers for the debt ceiling and gun control, kind of pointless to have a Congress. At that point we mind as well shut them down if he is going to do what he wants anyway. Next round of executive power coming from Obama will likely be for additional tax increases.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Reid urges "any lawful means"... well, going by that literally would solve any problem but of course he doesn't mean what he says. Those criminals don't care about lawful though.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
IF we have no Congress, OR, IF Obama uses an "Executive Order" for tax purposes, we would then have "taxation without representation", in which case it is time to "Lock and Load".

We are about to see the end of the Constitution and therefor the end of the United States. IF any of these things take place ALL bets are off. :mad:
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Here's an article that makes a good counter-argument to Obama's position (bold emphasis mine):
Rivkin, Casey: Democrats’ Three Bogus Arguments on Debt Ceiling
By Newsmax Wires


The debt ceiling debate has brought out three specious arguments from Democrats, say David Rivkin and Lee Casey, partners at law firm Baker Hostetler and officials in the Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations, respectively.

“The first is that Congress' failure to raise the debt ceiling will cause a default on the national debt,” they write in The Wall Street Journal. “The second is that federal entitlement programs are constitutionally protected from spending cuts. The third is that the president can raise the debt ceiling on his own authority.”

As for the first argument, the federal government can pay its bills with the $200 billion of tax revenue it receives per month, the lawyers argue. “If the executive chose to act irresponsibly and unconstitutionally and failed to make any debt payments when they come due, debt-holders would be able to go to the Court of Federal Claims and promptly obtain a money judgment.”

As for entitlements, “despite White House claims that Congress must raise the debt ceiling to pay the bills it has incurred, the obligations protected as ‘debts’ by the 14th Amendment do not include entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security,” Rivkin and Casey write.

The "public debt" covered by the amendment consists of federal government borrowings through bonds and similar financial instruments. “Entitlement programs are instead political measures that are fully subject to the general rule that one Congress cannot, by simple legislation, prevent a future Congress from making cuts,” the duo says.

Numerous Democrats claim that the president can use Section 4 of the 14th amendment as justification to lift the debt ceiling by himself. That’s “manifestly incorrect and constitutionally dangerous,” Rivkin and Casey write. “Section 4 grants no power whatsoever to the president. Instead, the 14th Amendment grants Congress the ‘power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.’"

Rivkin, Casey: Democrats? Three Bogus Arguments on Debt Ceiling


The GOP should make it clear they stand ready to block this would-be potentate from enacting his illegal dictates. They've let him and the Dems get by with too many unconstitutional actions already (eg. no budgets from the Senate for 3 years). Boehner or someone in Republican leadership needs to grow some cohones on this runaway spending and quit worrying about "offending" some block of voters that aren't going to vote for them anyway.

The entire article in the WSJ is well worth reading. It explains in clear language that the US would have no problem paying its DEBTS from the flow of existing tax revenues even if the debt ceiling weren't raised - there would be no defaults. Notice that Obama always refers to not meeting our OBLIGATIONS, which really means HIS discretionary spending programs. There's a big difference between the two.
 
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AMonger

Veteran Expediter
It is REALLY getting out of control. WHY are we allowing this to continue? URGING the president to bypass congress? Sound like TREASON to me.
A lot of people make this mistake, but you should know better. The constitution defines, quite specifically, what constitutes treason. It's not just any unconstitutional act by a government official.
According to the constitution, only two things constitute treason: giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and making war against the States (intentionally plural in the original). Neither applies.
Comrade Obama still sucks, though.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I contend what Obama is doing IS treason. An attack on the Constitution IS an attack on the several "States". So is what he will have to do to enforce a firearms bans in total disregard of the Constitution. He WILL have to use Federal forces of some sort, within the several states, to take control of those who will resist.

I also contend that Obama IS providing aid and comfort to the enemy. ANY country, faction, person or government official who attempts to overthrow the Constitution of the United States is in FACT an enemy of the People.

IF nothing else, this SHOULD be grounds for impeachment.
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I wonder if any of these jokers have ever balanced a checkbook.

Now, of course I'm not the government so I can't just print money-- but I have a very definite debt limit. When I've borrowed up to that limit, the bank won't let me borrow more until I pay down some of that debt. I look at what government does and I have to ask just how long they can continue to get away with this until all the birds come home to roost. If you manage your home/business budget the way the government does its budget, you're going to jail. Or the poorhouse.. Or both.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The debt is bad, so is the deficit. NEITHER combined come close to the President acting unilaterally OUTSIDE of the Constitution to do HIS own bidding! What they are suggesting that he does on gun control and the budget, make LAW and spend the PEOPLE'S money by executive order, in defiance of the Congress is unthinkable! This IS the Soviet way!
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
I contend what Obama is doing IS treason. An attack on the Constitution IS an attack on the several "States".
"States." FIFY.
I also contend that Obama IS providing aid and comfort to the enemy.
When I wrote my reply, I was going to help you out by saying, "Let me save you some time and make your next post for you: 'In my opinion, this IS treason,'" because I knew that's what was coming.
Our founding fathers for good reason intentionally spelled out what could be called treason, specifically so any opposition to the state couldn't be termed treason, subjecting someone who opposed a government action to a capital charge. If we expand the definition to "that and anything LOS wants it to be," don't be surprised if Comrade Obama decides to call opposing him "treason," and he'll have plenty of ideological helpers.
Let's leave the definition of treason where our forefathers put it.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
What he is doing is OPPOSITION to the Constitution, what is that called? Good politics?

Call it want you want. The phrase is "All ENEMIES, both foreign AND DOMESTIC", the result is the same.

Use what ever definition of what is going on that you want. A horse is a horse even if you call it a car. Allow an enemy to take over and we have lost. The time to take sides is now VERY near.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Opposition to the Constitution leads to Amendments ... Does it not?
Opposing a certain part would constitute freedom of speech.....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Opposition to the Constitution leads to Amendments ... Does it not?
Opposing a certain part would constitute freedom of speech.....

The act of amending the Constitution is NOT against it, that is working WITHIN the rule of law, not outside. Speech is allowed. Obama or Biden can spout off all they want. ACTING outside of the Constitution, like invalidating the Bill of Rights by unilateral gun ban, is NOT legal, and constitutes a Domestic enemy. IF that action is taken that line will have been crossed.

The reality then is that the MILITARY SHOULD take action AGAINST that action since their oath is to DEFEND the Constitution.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The act of amending the Constitution is NOT against it, that is working WITHIN the rule of law, not outside. Speech is allowed. Obama or Biden can spout off all they want. ACTING outside of the Constitution, like invalidating the Bill of Rights by unilateral gun ban, is NOT legal, and constitutes a Domestic enemy. IF that action is taken that line will have been crossed.

The reality then is that the MILITARY SHOULD take action AGAINST that action since their oath is to DEFEND the Constitution.

I don't agree with all these E.O s he has been signing
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Shooter once again you hit the same hole what 6 times 6 bullets Ive dug out. Id say your true Sniper Material. Cant say more than that.
Bravo Zulu!!!
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't know that we'd know anything more after reading NYT. The numbers they give shortchange what Obama has done by a significant amount it appears.
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I don't know that we'd know anything more after reading NYT. The numbers they give shortchange what Obama has done by a significant amount it appears.


Yupper Pic a Thousand words just like when you crawl under peoples houses you here things or when somebody forget to hang up the phone.
Truth gets out dont it. Bean Counters who needs them like I said non of their business. Borderline between being Socialist & a Commie dictator thats a bean counter.
 

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