More Americans convinced of climate change after extreme weather

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
I don't buy that argument either. When Krakatoa blew up in 1883 the effects lasted more than 70 years. Methane, a green house gas is produced by the earth at far greater levels than man could even dream of.

The problem is those who push the idea that man, and mainly the US, are the primary cause have little credibility. They have no PROOF and often what they call 'proof' is either made up or just wrong.

They are trying to use the 'climate change' stuff to say that the Great Lakes are too low or too high. Yet nothing they say holds, are you ready for this, water. LOL The REAL fact is, they have NO IDEA why the Lakes have their high and low cycles. Those cycles seem to be an 80 cycle. There has been no correlation to snow pack, lack of snow pack, rain or lack of rain to account for it. The major high cycle took place during a prolonged drought.

They have blamed earth quakes, on 'climate change'. They said, back when I lived in England, that Washington DC would be under 4' feet of water by the year 2000. Did not happen. In the '60's they said all the dirt in the air would start an ice age, Did not happen.

What it all boils down to is that they ain't got a clue what is going on and are just using this as excuse to control what people do. Governments are involved which is ALWAYS bad.




Do I believe something is going on with the climate ? .... Yes

Do I believe that the scientist are right ?........ Maybe they are on to something, but they are not there yet.

Do I believe that they should keep the public informed ?...... No. they have "cried wolf" too many times and that has developed the distrust in this subject. The reluctance of the public at large - worldwide - is all to evident.
When they have 100% proof then it should be announced.

Will they announce before the next ice-age hits ? ..... I've watched Day after tomorrow !! :eek:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Do I believe something is going on with the climate ? .... Yes

Do I believe that the scientist are right ?........ Maybe they are on to something, but they are not there yet.

Do I believe that they should keep the public informed ?...... No. they have "cried wolf" too many times and that has developed the distrust in this subject. The reluctance of the public at large - worldwide - is all to evident.
When they have 100% proof then it should be announced.

Will they announce before the next ice-age hits ? ..... I've watched Day after tomorrow !! :eek:

MORE proof of just how stupid movies can be! That was one REALLY bad, stupid, movie. Not based on ANY kind of fact just made to push a VERY shaky global warming/climate change agenda. Besides, Art Bell was involved with that movie. That should say all that needs said.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
MORE proof of just how stupid movies can be! That was one REALLY bad, stupid, movie. Not based on ANY kind of fact just made to push a VERY shaky global warming/climate change agenda. Besides, Art Bell was involved with that movie. That should say all that needs said.

LOL the last "question" was meant as a joke - British humour - sorry :p
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
- British humour - sorry :p

British%20humour.JPG
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
And what is the mitigating factor now? .......... Man and his greenhouse gas ...... burp! :eek:
causing the fast forward to the next potential catastrophe
Are ya shure? Is that really the mitigating factor? The primary cause? Are ya shure? No chance whatsoever that the weather would be precisely as it is today if man were still using stone tools?

Yes, temperature average, averages, mind you, averages, fluctuate over thousands of years. But that doesn't mean there haven't been major aberrations that took place within those thousands of years over a 20-50 year time frame, both hot and cold. There is fossil and recorded evidence of them. There was a mini ice ace that that lasted about 50 years, totally unexpected even based on computer models, that started in mid-1700s and lasted until the early 1800s. It's why George Washington has such a bugger of a time fighting those mangy Red Coats.

The weather is changing (despite it's always been changing, including temperatures), and man has been putting a lot of extra greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Well, two things. One, just how much does it take to alter the weather? They don't know. They really don't. They're guessing. Two, in a glorious example of the Illusory Corollary, the see Climate Change, and they see greenhouse gases caused by man, and with no real evidence at all, they make the connection. And it's made on a knee-jerk reaction of fallacy, namely, if man didn't cause this, what else could?

And the answer is, of course, the volcano gods.

But they would look silly saying that. Reason is that it smack a little too close to the capital "G" God, and another is they're scientists and we can't be having scientists say crackpot things like that. But that's exactly how things people didn't understand gor explained away for millennia. If you don't know the answer, it's certainly easier to say the gods did it, but it's also just as easy to make that illusory corollary and say man did it. Plus, the gods won't give you research money.

[/quote]"Changes this large have historically taken thousands of years, but are now happening over the course of decades."[/QUOTE]When you average it out over a thousand years, the changes happening today may end up being a barely registering blip on the average. They don't know. But "they don't know" won't sell magazines, get you research grants, and sell diesel particulate filters.

Did you know the most abundant and most influential greenhouse gas is water vapor? But it's not one that humans can be blamed for. Spurred by the UN's official position on the matter, most scientists and officials no longer even consider water vapor to be a factor. It's been removed from the equation. Computer models assume a high concentration of water vapor, then fill in the blanks with the other gases, so that the only variable is the human-caused gases. That's the epitome of junk science, and many scientists even admit it, which is why the famous qualifiers are used so often.

Notice how readily they so often say that you can't point to humans as the cause for any single weather event, like this heat, or the snow last winter, or the last of snow in many parts of the country last winter, or this or that hurricane? If humans were causing this, and they knew it, they could, in fact, point the finger. And if you can't point it at one event, you certainly can't point it at any of the others. Pretty soon you run out of events to point at and you've got a bunch of fingers left over. So they point at it all, all of it, all at once. It's almost as arrogant as saying we're alone in the universe. They don't know. Haven't found life yet, therefor we're it? That's some warped logic. You could even call it a logical fallacy, because it is.

It's the illusory corollary of seeing something in one set of data, and connecting to another set of data, even where no real, actual connection exists. Every time a baseball player makes fantastic defensive play to end the inning, he's always the one to lead off the next inning at the plate. Well, no he's not. But it sure seems that way. You certainly remember it every time it happens. Man pumps CO2 into the atmosphere, it rains a whole bunch in Florida, or it's really hotter than "normal" someplace, or the wind is blowing harder than is does on the average day. They've got to be connected, don't they?
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Turtle said ... "Are ya shure? Is that really the mitigating factor? The primary cause? Are ya shure? No chance whatsoever that the weather would be precisely as it is today if man were still using stone tools?

Yes, temperature average, averages, mind you, averages, fluctuate over thousands of years. But that doesn't mean there haven't been major aberrations that took place within those thousands of years over a 20-50 year time frame, both hot and cold. There is fossil and recorded evidence of them. There was a mini ice ace that that lasted about 50 years, totally unexpected even based on computer models, that started in mid-1700s and lasted until the early 1800s. It's why George Washington has such a bugger of a time fighting those mangy Red Coats.

The weather is changing (despite it's always been changing, including temperatures), and man has been putting a lot of extra greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Well, two things. One, just how much does it take to alter the weather? They don't know. They really don't. They're guessing. Two, in a glorious example of the Illusory Corollary, the see Climate Change, and they see greenhouse gases caused by man, and with no real evidence at all, they make the connection. And it's made on a knee-jerk reaction of fallacy, namely, if man didn't cause this, what else could?

And the answer is, of course, the volcano gods.

But they would look silly saying that. Reason is that it smack a little too close to the capital "G" God, and another is they're scientists and we can't be having scientists say crackpot things like that. But that's exactly how things people didn't understand gor explained away for millennia. If you don't know the answer, it's certainly easier to say the gods did it, but it's also just as easy to make that illusory corollary and say man did it. Plus, the gods won't give you research money"




Which is why I said ........

Do I believe something is going on with the climate ? .... Yes

Do I believe that the scientist are right ?........ Maybe they are on to something, but they are not there yet.

Do I believe that they should keep the public informed ?...... No. they have "cried wolf" too many times and that has developed the distrust in this subject. The reluctance of the public at large - worldwide - is all to evident.
When they have 100% proof then it should be announced.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
From National Geographic in June this year ......


Global warming, or climate change, is a subject that shows no sign of cooling down.

Here's the lowdown on why it's happening, what's causing it, and how it might change the planet

Is It Happening?

Yes. Earth is already showing many signs of worldwide climate change.

• Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

• The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

• The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

• Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

• Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

• Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

• An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
From National Geographic in June this year ......


Global warming, or climate change, is a subject that shows no sign of cooling down.

Here's the lowdown on why it's happening, what's causing it, and how it might change the planet

Is It Happening?

Yes. Earth is already showing many signs of worldwide climate change.

• Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

• The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

• The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

• Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

• Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

• Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

• An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts.

The glaciers in the northern hemisphere has been melting, except for a few years, for more than 10,000 years. Whats new?

Earth has, on more to one occasion, lost nearly 100% of it's life. What's new?

Wildfires are REALLY GOOD! Building new, vibrant forests where old, worn out unproductive forests exist now. Only the firefighting efforts of the last several decades have caused them to be as large as they are.

There have been many periods of heavy tropical storms, as there have also been many periods of light activity.

There is just nothing new out there.

Next we will hear how climate change/global warming and the Evil US is causing the Great Salt Lake to dry up.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
And factor in North America is on the move...

For the most part, the North American Plate moves in roughly a southwest direction away from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
And factor in North America is on the move...

For the most part, the North American Plate moves in roughly a southwest direction away from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge

All the plates are on the move. Always have been. What's new?

The Pacific Plate, the area west of the San Andres fault, moves to the north west. The plate that Hawaii is on moves across an active 'hot spot' which accounts for the string of islands. Same with Yellowstone. Sits over the same sort of thing.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Has anyone read the sci-fi .... Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov?

Over population, every single thing regulated (world wide) because of shortages, basically living in a hive cut off from the outside .... and over time being afraid of the outside and only feeling safe inside the womb of the hive.

Makes you think huh .... what sort of future will we be leaving for our children's children if we are wrong? :rolleyes:



Obviously that is not the whole deal with Caves of Steel - excellent series of books by Asimov :)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Has anyone read the sci-fi .... Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov?

Over population, every single thing regulated (world wide) because of shortages, basically living in a hive cut off from the outside .... and over time being afraid of the outside and only feeling safe inside the womb of the hive.

Makes you think huh .... what sort of future will we be leaving for our children's children if we are wrong? :rolleyes:



Obviously that is not the whole deal with Caves of Steel - excellent series of books by Asimov :)

Shortages of what? We have more food than we know what to do with. Water? Only misuse has created limited shortages. All problems can be solved by getting rid of the power of government.

Asimov was a GREAT speaker and did a LOT of work for the U.S. and British intelligence services.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
All the plates are on the move. Always have been. What's new?

The Pacific Plate, the area west of the San Andres fault, moves to the north west. The plate that Hawaii is on moves across an active 'hot spot' which accounts for the string of islands. Same with Yellowstone. Sits over the same sort of thing.

Nothing new...just saying....

Now paving over...like urban sprawl...is a bad thing....more and more green being paved over, trees cut down....the inner city temperatures are much higher then out in the country....
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Shortages of what? We have more food than we know what to do with. Water? Only misuse has created limited shortages. All problems can be solved by getting rid of the power of government.

Asimov was a GREAT speaker and did a LOT of work for the U.S. and British intelligence services.


We are talking future generations, not the now. And worldwide not just the USA.

And yes he was :)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Nothing new...just saying....

Now paving over...like urban sprawl...is a bad thing....more and more green being paved over, trees cut down....the inner city temperatures are much higher then out in the country....


You seem to be unaware of something. There is more land now under forest cover than in 1935. The US has FAR more forests than any time since that time. Cutting wood, in a proper manner, makes them better.

The fires are a natural means of renewing themselves. ALL the forests burning out west are part of a 'fire based' system.

Nothing is new.

Detroit's inner city temps are only higher due to arson.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
From National Geographic in June this year ......


Global warming, or climate change, is a subject that shows no sign of cooling down.

Here's the lowdown on why it's happening, what's causing it, and how it might change the planet
[snip]
That's not really a lowdown on why, or what, or really how it might change the planet. It's a laundry list of scary things perpetuated by the merchants of chaos.

I can counter every one of them with other, equally factual statistics. For example, the first one, temps have climbed 1.4 degrees F since 1880, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies. Well, according to the same NASA agency, temps have remained between steady and lower by .03 degrees F since 550 AD. What does that mean?

The second one, "...according to a number of climate studies." What does that mean? There are also a number of climate studies that show the last two decades of the 20th century were not at all the hottest in the last 400 years. It's easy to pick and choose the ones that fit your agenda, and dismiss or ignore the ones that don't. Also, anything coming out of the UN, especially the IPCC, should be viewed with the appropriate jaundiced eye, as the IPCC is admittedly an agenda-driven, biased organization who's sole purpose is to look for all things Global Climate Change related, the scarier the better. They're the ones who removed water vapor from the list of greenhouse gases.

But the big one on that list is the coral reefs. I posted an article here a while back from the Discovery Channel who did a report based on the rather extensive study by NOAA, the Marine Biological Institute, The Cousteau Society (the lead tree-hugger of the human-induced climate change crowd, particularly that of oceanic pollution and the acidification of the seas), and oddly enough, the National Geographic itself, which showed without question that ocean temperatures has nowhere near the impact of corals that was once believed. It turns out that bleaching is most widespread and pronounced only in waters where there are human swimmers. In experiment after experiment in controlled conditions by independent researchers, and in real-world testing, they all came up with the same results. It's not ocean temperature that causes bleaching, it's an extraordinarily small amount of the chemicals in sunscreen which causes the death and bleaching of corals.

But that rarely gets reported. Because of human-induced climate change due to CO[SUP]2[/SUP] saturation and the --> depletion of the Ozone Layer <-- cause by man, you gotta wear sunblock. You just gotta. But they don't want to admit that sunblock causes coral bleaching, sometimes hundreds of miles away, because it doesn't fit with the temperature narrative. So they largely ignore it. One of the few things they can't point their finger at, and they don't. It's corruption on a grand scale, from research grants to payoff from large pharma companies who make sunscreen. They've got people believing you have to have to wear sunblock nearly all the time because we've got no Ozone Layer anymore, despite the fact that we do have one, and it's fine, and that it comes and goes all the time with regularity, and has done so for as far back as they can tell.

It doesn't fit the narrative, the agenda, so they either ignore it, or in some cases continue to report the falsehood either out of ignorance or on purpose, that it's ocean temperature changes that cause coral bleaching. They fail to mention the fact that ocean currents change all the time to where they bring not just minute temperature changes to coral reefs, but dramatic changes, and do so on a regular basis. That's what peaked NOAA's and the Marine Biological Institute's interest, in why the data and the belief never matched up.

In order for scientific fact to actually become fact, it must be irrefutable, and be reproducible by observation and/or experiment, and the cause and effect must not be surmised by anecdotal evidence. The vast majority of cause and effect of Climate Change is none of those things. When it's none of those things, it's a theory, nothing more. But one this is for sure and for certain, the more scarier you can make your theory, the more grant money you can get.


On the....
Which is why I said ........

Do I believe something is going on with the climate ? .... Yes
Keep in mind that you said those things after I typed up my reply, and before I pressed Submit Reply. So they crossed in posting.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I am not talking out in the countryside....
sorry..you can not explain away higher city temperatures that DO exist.....concrete jungles....
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Turtle said .... "In order for scientific fact to actually become fact, it must be irrefutable, and be reproducible by observation and/or experiment, and the cause and effect must not be surmised by anecdotal evidence"

I totally agree ...... which is why I said ...... ROFL :p ;)


I agree with OVM about the inner city temps ....... again lets look outside the US aswell as the US .... deforestation is everywhere :(
 
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