Kwhoppers versus Volvo

BigBusBob · Feb 24, 2006

Hello All, currently in Iowa.
I'm curious about the KW W900L and the Volvo 770, no doubt Davekc will be able to answer some of my questions... I'm curious what the major and minor differences are between the 2 rigs. The Volvo 770 is a heavier truck, but is it more fuel efficient than the W900L, if so by how much?
Wheelbase? any difference in insurance rates for these 2, by that I mean does it cost more to insure 1 rig over the other because it's more saught after? What's the easier truck to work on? whats more "Driver friendly" when it comes to both... maintenance and driving? I like the sleeper of both, but like the cab of the Volvo 770 as it's a bit wider, however I like the looks of both rigs.

I'm just doin' my homework and askin' questions now and doin' research... 'cause I'm lookin' to go O/O in 2007. Whether I do it with Swift or not is still on the drawing board. One thing I do know for certain is that I am NOT gettin' a rig THRU Swift. I'm goin' to a dealer, and I'm curious about that too... which dealers are class 8 truck owners having (and/or had) success with in the past?

As much as I'd like to get a daycab truck or a truck with a small mid-roof sleeper and then add a 96" custom sleeper behind it... I'm not going to do that just yet. I'm going to buy a used class 8 truck and run it for a bit and see how things go - if I'm successful enough then I'll go the custom sleeper route ina few years.

What's a good amount of miles to have on a good newbie O/O's truck? 400? 500? 700? I've been eyeing many trucks that are a few years old within the range of 400 to 500K miles on them. I don't want to get a really old truck, I'm seeking somethin' that's about 3 years old or so... but talk to me guys.

Thanks, Bob.

LDB · Feb 24, 2006

I have no experience with a 780 so I can't comment on it other than it is a great looking truck and you can add a factory engineered sink to the sleeper. The other thing I can tell you is the 780 is very nose heavy and weight distribution will be a problem.

The W900 is a great truck. Mine now has a little over 11k miles. With Centramatics on all axles it rides better than my car. I'll add to that my car is a Lancer Ralliart so it's not a plush car. Regardless, my truck rides better.

First and most important is to get a truck with a 2006 engine. Volvo announced a couple days ago on XM radio a price increase of $7500 for trucks with the 2007 EPA engine. I've heard estimates of $10k from other makers. Whatever you do go with an '06 engine.

I would highly suggest you look at a T600 instead of a W900. You'll spend about $10k less for an otherwise identical truck and you'll have a much smaller turning radius. That's the one thing I don't like so much about my truck. It takes a lot of real estate for turns. It also is nose heavy and the T600 won't be nearly as nose heavy so it will be easier to balance.

I would highly suggest you talk to Fred Sargent at Performance Kenworth, 713-844-7111 about building your truck. He is a total professional and when he tells you something it's accurate and it happens.

I tried to buy a Volvo but didn't have as much luck with the purchase process. I'm glad I didn't because the team at Performance were so fantastic to work with. Good luck to you.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

davekc · Feb 25, 2006

If it is looking at just used, I would go with the one that had the best price verses condition. If everything else is equal, then it depends on how you are going to use it. As a tractor, either will do. As a straight truck, the KW hands down.
Other issues are that the Volvo has had several recalls and has a somewhat complicated electrical system.
Service and parts availability would be another issue. Paccar (pete and kw) have a much larger network of service and parts distribution.
If it is just a wide cab, a T2000 might be a option.
But again, everything being equal, the T600 would clearly be my first choice.

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

Broompilot · Feb 25, 2006

Friends of mine who pull Trailers that own KWs love them for these reasons.

Selling one is easier than any other make.
Repairing them is easier than any other make.
They break down less than other makes.

They cost more up front is the only negative. My one friend who visits this site sold a Gold W-900 Condo in less than two weeks, 92 model 580K If I recall for around $55,000 cash. Advertised on E-Bay.

LDB · Feb 25, 2006

The T2000 isn't a good choice. It is even more nose heavy than the Volvo.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

greg334 · Feb 25, 2006

Kenworth â€“ no doubt!!!

Why? Resale value, quality and above all the mystique of the name â€“ it is like owning a Harley, you just got to have it. It don't matter - T600, T2000, even W900.

Volvo has an issue with axle weights and safety. Talking to one of their dealers a few weeks ago he said he would not sell some Volvo models if a box would be placed on the back, too unsafe. I have heard these comments a lot, even from engineers at GM who evaluate competitors vehicles.

Crazynuff · Feb 26, 2006

Why would you go with Swift when just about every expediting company always has a need for tractors ?

greg334 · Feb 26, 2006

>The T2000 isn't a good choice. It is even more nose heavy
>than the Volvo.

Leo,

I stand corrected and agree - thanks.

tom tinker · Feb 26, 2006

Tom Tinker Retired
Hi working around truking out fits, I picked this up Koleaseco in G.R said they could buy a T200 ever year for what they saved on fuel. Compared to W900. Mechanics I know would Prefer W900.
Volvo not good reports, Good for ride and room. This second hand info. I picked up delivering parts, son also truck mechanic.
Still recovering neck surgery watching forum daily, Thanks.
Sincerely
Tom Tinker

i

BigBusBob · Feb 27, 2006

ok, I should have clarified and I'm sorry I did not...
The truck I buy will NOT be used for straight truck operations...
I will be using it as/for a tractor. Pulling 53' Dry Vans and an occasional reefer box perhaps.
I realize that if I was going flatbed work the truck would have to have certain spec's... flatbedding does not interest me much.

Class 8, tractor, pulling 53' dry van trailers.
Plain and simple.

In regards to why am I gonna stay with Swift as opposed to any expedited co. that has a demand for tractors...
I don't see too many tractors that run for expediting co.'s. Perhaps that's just me, but I see many straight trucks. They're a dime a dozen. All over too! I got my class A license now and I'm planning on using it. if I wanted to drive a straight truck, I would not have gone and acquired my class A. Anybody can go to a dealer with a class B license, buy a class 8 (tractor) truck and make it into a straight truck.

Every driver I've spoken with that's been with Swift for more than a year seems content/happy with them. I understand many knock Swift, but most that knock them have never driven for them, or if they have it wasn't much more than a year or so. 18 wheelers isn't for everybody, and I'm not saying that I'm completely against the idea of going back to a straight truck, I'm simply saying my plans are to not go into a straight truck within the next year or two...
I'm finding I really enjoy 18 wheels, and the challenges they bring.
After roughly 9 years of straight trucks and busses, 18 wheelers are a welcome break for this driver... new challenges! Yes!

I said I'm doing my homework and researching...

The Volvo 770 would be the only Volvo model I'd consider... while the 880 or 780 are nice, they're also very pricey... and I simply don't want to take that risk just yet.
The majority of the opinions on the Volvo seem to be interior space and quality of the ride.
Those 2 points are not enough to sway me into buying one.
Parts availability is though, and that's something I was curious about. thank you

The KW's seem to be getting more positive points in this post.
The T600 and T800 are trucks I really have not looked at all that closely before... what are their main differences?
Wheelbase? interiors? engines? weight?

The W900L is nice, and Sat. nite while chattin' on the CB across Nebraska I was told about the W900 B series... any info on that?
or was I just gettin' smoke blown at me?
The difference in fuel mileage between the W900 and the T2000 is about 2-3 mpg as far as I know... what difference does that mean/make in the big scheme of things? What are the differences in the quality of the ride between the 2 trucks? I've only driven a T2000 inside a terminal parking lot, so really couldn't tell much about it... except that to me it didn't feel right- felt kinda rigid to me.

The Columbia I'm in now is ok, they're a dime a dozen too when it comes to used truck lots.
However, the KW's are usually O/O's trucks, especially the W900 series... making them "perhaps" "slightly" better tended to when it comes to maintenance and general upkeep of them.

While I know I could go to nearly any dealer and pick up a used Columbia and/or Century at a good price, the chances of that truck being a former fleet truck from somewhere are VERY good... as are the chances that the rig's also been dragged thru the brush as well.

So, all that said, now talk to me some more.

currently in Salt Lake City, UT.
Bob

tom tinker · Feb 27, 2006

Tom Tinker Retired Hi Big Bus Bob in Grand Rapids mi. Van Kampen leases
there trucks well taken care of I don't know how many miles they have on them when there turned back in. Usually black not to bad color for swift white trailers. They have 800 number on net. I gave it to flame merc.
Sorry should have saved it. I didn't check your profile to see where your from. In Gr there's 4or5 out fits running W900. Good luck.

Back to bed for me hope Vicaden will give me some sleep. Sincerely Tom Tinker

LDB · Feb 27, 2006

Now that I understand the program we'll open it back up to any model from any manufacturer again. I thought you were going to set up an expediter. I'd still look at expediting with your 53 footer. There aren't that many to be seen on the road because most of us won't drag the 53 footer around. You'll find there is demand for it. I'd also suggest looking at Landstar regardless of expediter or standard hauler. You'll generally do much better than the Swift rate.

On to trucks. Kenworth first. The W900B is the short hood version. It's about 10" less than the 900L. The T600 and T800 are set back axle versions. The 800 can be set up with breathers and stacks like a 900 while the 600 is strictly underhood breather and underbody exhaust. The 800 is considered a somewhat heavier duty truck. Resale will favor the 900 although the 600 is very close. The 800 is somewhat behind for some reason. Go with a T600 with 86" studio sleeper. You'll have the most comfort and best resale.

Volvo. You may be thinking about the 670. There is no 770 anymore. The 780 is the current largest aerodynamic model. The 880 is a straight hood version to more closely resemble and compete with the W900. If I went Volvo it would be a 780 with the sink put in the sleeper. Resale isn't going to be nearly what a KW is though.

Peterbilt. The big name but not the big truck. Max sleeper is 70" and not nearly as nice as a KW. It's a good truck and there are more of them around but it is the lesser of the Paccar line.

Freightliner. The Columbia is the aero champ. The Coronado is the KW big boy competitor. Neither are a KW and neither will have nearly the resale.

Mack makes a nice truck in the Vision. It's no KW and doesn't have the dealer network or resale.

Now that I know what you are doing I HIGHLY recommend you talk to Fred at 713-844-7111, even moreso than before. He'll have a truck on the ground that will do what you want to do and he's as stand up a guy as there is in the business. If there's any more I can help with drop me an email and I'll get you my cell number. Good luck.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

Broompilot · Feb 27, 2006

VanKampen, takes exceptional care of there equipment. Any Company out of West Michgian has an automatic tag attatched been taken care of by DUTCH. Thats great advice if I were ever looking for a Tractor West Michgian is the place to go, been there, know them pride in everything they do.

Tennesseahawk · Feb 27, 2006

I have to agree with Leo on this one. If there aren't many t/ts with expediting companies, it's one of two reasons. There aren't the need, or they are under utilized. I think it's the latter. When looking for freight, I find an abundance of t/t loads.

Maybe it's the mentality of the big truck driver. I don't know... seems there are plenty who would haul 45,000# across the mountains for $.95 when expediting freight gets $2-3/mi. I know the sitting part of expediting doesn't appeal to truckers; but then again, I don't know too many who drive regular freight, and have a wallet busting at the seems, either.

I'd advise you take another look at the issue when you decide to take the leap into o/o. It could mean the difference of thousands per week.

mach82 · Feb 28, 2006

Hi, I am new to the forum and is reading as much as I can in preparation of getting into the Trucking business.

I read LDB's post and wasn't too clear on why he was saying that you have to start out with a 2006 engine. Is that to say it's not a good idea to get into the business with a used truck?

Wouldn't it be better to invest in a good used truck (capital investment) and then uprade in short order.

The other question is assuming all things are equal and a O/O is willing to stick with the program, which is the better way to go, OTR or Expediting?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

targuard86 · Feb 28, 2006

FedEc is paying $1.16 plus fuel for all dispatched miles in a tractor. When I say all dispatched miles I mean all......if they ask you to move from one side of the strret to the other or deadhead across the state they pay.

LDB · Mar 1, 2006

My post was only in reference to a new truck. The 2007 engines must meet much stricter regulations. The price of a 2007 truck will be up to $10,000 higher than an indentical 2006 just to meet the tougher regs. In addition to that the fuel mpg will probably be about 1/2 mpg less under identical circumstances.

A good used truck can be an excellent way to go provided you can confirm good. It can also be a nightmare if not adequately inspected prior to purchase. I don't recommend one or the other. It's up to the individual to determine what's best for their specific needs. I only suggest those going new be sure to get a 2006 engine, not a 2007.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

BigBusBob · Mar 1, 2006

Leo And TN Hawk, I thank you for the info... I hadn't thought much about the expediting because it was such a fast pace when I was in it. Now that I pull regular dry van freight it's a much slower pace, a pace I'm more comfortable with.
Do expediting co.'s push the tractors as hard as the straight trucks???

I'd consider LandStar before FedEx in a heartbeat... mainly because I'm hearing more and more good about them... I'll most likely post the co. questions in either General Expediting or Newbies Forum.

The T600 I've not put much thought into... however, I got to get up inside the W900B at the Salt Lake City Terminal... they had a 3 there for lease... I got up in one and was lookin' around and I didn't like it at all. I was infact very disappointed, because from the outside they look like they have so much more space than they really do. I'm sure it was the 72" sleeper, and I would like to see one with an 86" sleeper on it to see how big of a difference it is then. I still didn't like the dash layout, or the entry way into the rig. The entry into the sleeper has a step down I didn't like. The hood lifted and revealed a Cummins, you can have them. I like a big Cat or Detroit.

I'm going to stop by a KW dealer in the coming weeks to check out the T600's and check further into a W900L with a larger sleeper - perhaps it'll be different than the ones I saw at the terminal. I'd like to see a T2000 and a W900L side by side and check them out that way. Then I'd compare a T2000 to the T600.
After seeing the W900B I really like the T2000 now.

What are the differences between the T2000 and the W900L and T600's?

The Volvo I like is the 770, I'm buying used remember... not new.
Once again though, if the parts network isn't there like Dave said, then the Volvo is unappealing to me.

I know Freightliner has a great parts network, and they're a contender in my truck choices. I was reading the article here on EO today about PII. I was interested. The tractor issue with these fleets though seems to be a sore subject of sorts.

Why aren't there more tractors pulling expedited freight?
Not enough money in it? or are the trailers you pull so beat up it takes a toll on the tractors and the drivers get tired of it and go elsewhere?

Freightliner's Columbia is nice, I wished there was more cubby holes though like the T2000 has in it.
I'm told that the T2000 has noticably better fuel mileage than the W900 series - just one look at the 2 trucks and that's obvious.

Out of the Columbia, the T2000, and the T600, who has the best fuel mileage pulling a 53 foot dry van?

Is $5K enough down to keep a payment below 1500 a month? I'd like to see a payment of say less than 1200 to 1500 a month. Price I'm interested in would be around 40 or less - ballpark figure.

Also, who is Fred and I don't know what or who you all are talkin' about when you say VanKempen... is that a dealer or truck shop or truck co. or ????

Thanks for the info again guys, Bob.

tom tinker · Mar 1, 2006

Tom Tinker Retired or retarded. Hi Big Bus Bob I know a guy outside of Allegan Mi. he runs a used KW with van trailer and flat bed. He is really layed back. drives for Landstar. He tried encourageing me to go with them. I don't think this guy would be with them if they were pushers. Good Luck Tom Tinker :7