It never stops amazing me...

[ntimevan]

In response to Insurance possibly being Void if Exceding GVW limits or Vehicle handling limits ..
I don't know the Exact Law pertaining to this .
BUT My Dad was an Insurance agent for Farm Bureau Insurance agency for 40 years dealing in personal and Farm insurance. And he often spoke of people exceding Weight Limits (farm wagons and semi hopper-types) and when envolved in accident on /off the farm/road that Coverage was strictly limited . Thus less amount Insurance company paying out for damages and more out of pocket for insured individual.
So No i don't know exact laws per individual States about insurance coverage. And i am not Glued to computer keyboard . I have a life outside of the van.


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[RedBird]

Which is still Log Book out doing what we do ... of course I guess the thing to do is SLAP some 10,000 GVW stickers on the doors and haul away ..

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Isn’t that the case in my rant on that FB post! If Mr. McCord would allow the conversation reposted it stated my point. And the carrier has signs but lacks the DOT/MC numbers displayed!


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[Turtle]

In response to Insurance possibly being Void if Exceding GVW limits or Vehicle handling limits ..

You didn't offer it up as a possibility, you offered it as an actual fact. That's my only issue with yout post. When you state something as a fact, it needs to be a fact. Otherwise, you're misleading people. When you tell someone on here that this or that is illegal, they're gonna believe you, so you better be right. The Internet is chock full of beliefs, assumptions, thoughts and opinions being presented as stone-cold fact. We try not to do that here. One of the goals of EO is to present accurate, factual information to the expediting professional.

I don't know the Exact Law pertaining to this .

Which is something you should probably find out before going on about this or that being illegal.

BUT My Dad was an Insurance agent for Farm Bureau Insurance agency for 40 years dealing in personal and Farm insurance. And he often spoke of people exceding Weight Limits (farm wagons and semi hopper-types) and when envolved in accident on /off the farm/road that Coverage was strictly limited . Thus less amount Insurance company paying out for damages and more out of pocket for insured individual.

Like I said earlier in response to your emphatically matter-of-fact statement that people are hauling illegally if they exceed their van's GVWR, from a logical standpoint, it certainly makes sense that that's the case, and I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to make, even if it's incorrect. But the fact is, it's not illegal to exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. Nor is your insurance void if you do, unless the policy explicitly states that doing is is an exclusion. Weight exclusions and/or limitations is a pretty common thing with farm vehicles, since they're allowed to break half the DOT's safety regulations as it is. Liability may be reduced, and physical damage to the farm vehicle as a result of being overweight probably won't be covered at all.

But in cargo van expediting, unless the insurance policy explicitly states an overweight exclusion, there probably isn't one. There may be some policies ot there that are void if overweight, but I don't know of any. Anyone who is unsure can simply read the policy and find out.

Now, that doesn't mean that in the event of an accident that an attorney won't make good use out of an overweight vehicle, because they will. They'll also make good use out of driving 18 hours straight, or anything else that can find to use against a defendant.

So No i don't know exact laws per individual States about insurance coverage. And i am not Glued to computer keyboard . I have a life outside of the van.

Why go there? Why not just stick to the issues? I'm not glued to a computer keyboard, either, and I also have a life outside the van. I'm also not an childish idiot. See how that works? I'm not calling you a childish idiot at all. I'm simply saying that I'm not one. But that's not on topic, either, is it?

 

[RedBird]

Isn’t that the case in my rant on that FB post! If Mr. McCord would allow the conversation reposted it stated my point. And the carrier has signs but lacks the DOT/MC numbers displayed!


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9 stackable skids on a Chevy cutaway chasis with a 14-16 foot box, dual wheels and it’s listed under 10,000lbs. Agree or Disagree?

Further after some questions, the vehicle doesn’t have to log or scale!!!!!

“Van” or I’ll refer to cube truck has decals but lacks any DOT or MC numbers posted.

So gentlemen does this mean this carrier is legal and in compliance? Your thoughts?


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[VSprinter]

So No i don't know exact laws per individual States about insurance coverage. And i am not Glued to computer keyboard . I have a life outside of the van.

Why go there? Why not just stick to the issues? I'm not glued to a computer keyboard, either, and I also have a life outside the van. I'm also not an childish idiot. See how that works? I'm not calling you a childish idiot at all. I'm simply saying that I'm not one. But that's not on topic, either, is it?

Lack of sense of humor and grudges generates popcorn watching time.

"Amazing Grace, half-decent rates..."

 

[Turtle]

If the vehicle weighs more than 10,000 pounds, or has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds (and is engaged in interstate commerce), it's a Commercial Motor Vehicle and thus has to log and scale.

When you say "it’s listed under 10,000 lbs," I'm not sure what you mean. If the VIN# check or the door plate (usually on the inside edge of the driver's door, but sometimes under the seat, like on Sprinters) installed by the manufacturer (or upfitter) says it's under 10,000, then it's good to go.

If you have the VIN, you can look out up here :
Welcome to VIN Decoding :: provided by vPIC

 

[Turtle]

So No i don't know exact laws per individual States about insurance coverage. And i am not Glued to computer keyboard . I have a life outside of the van.

Why go there? Why not just stick to the issues? I'm not glued to a computer keyboard, either, and I also have a life outside the van. I'm also not an childish idiot. See how that works? I'm not calling you a childish idiot at all. I'm simply saying that I'm not one. But that's not on topic, either, is it?

Lack of sense of humor and grudges generates popcorn watching time.

"Amazing Grace, half-decent rates..."

Lack of knowledge of what all has gone on, what's been said in private, and prior warnings, generate even more off-topic posts.

 

[VSprinter]

Lack of knowledge of what all has gone on, what's been said in private, and prior warnings, generate even more off-topic posts.

What was said in private and what warnings were issued are none of my business.
However, some civility and compassion, understanding of other people sense of humor would not hurt this forum.
Just my two cents...

"Amazing Grace, half-decent rates..."

 

[Turtle]

Lack of knowledge of what all has gone on, what's been said in private, and prior warnings, generate even more off-topic posts.

What was said in private and what warnings were issued are none of my business.

And yet, nevertheless, you decided to continue try and keep this thread off-topic.

However, some civility and compassion, understanding of other people sense of humor would not hurt this forum.
Just my two cents...

What sense of humor are you talking about? Are you talking about the sense of humor where he insinuated that I think it's fine to overload my Sprinter with more than 3000 pounds because there's no federal law against it, simply because I pointed out that his nonsense about it being illegal to be overweight? That sense of humor? Or are you talking about the sense of humor where he took a personal shot at me, for about the 10th time, about being glued to a keyboard and not having a life outside the van, simply because I challenged him in private to refute anything I said with actual evidence? Is that the sense of humor you're talking about? Or maybe it's about the off-topic personal attack that he posted that got deleted? That sense of humor?

 

[RedBird]

If the vehicle weighs more than 10,000 pounds, or has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds (and is engaged in interstate commerce), it's a Commercial Motor Vehicle and thus has to log and scale.

When you say "it’s listed under 10,000 lbs," I'm not sure what you mean. If the VIN# check or the door plate (usually on the inside edge of the driver's door, but sometimes under the seat, like on Sprinters) installed by the manufacturer (or upfitter) says it's under 10,000, then it's good to go.

If you have the VIN, you can look out up here :
Welcome to VIN Decoding :: provided by vPIC

Like John said earlier, just because someone says a van is under 10,000lbs. Is it really? Yes I understand what the upfitters may state but the proof is in the actual weighing of the vehicle. I’ve attached a picture of the van in question the actual conversation is in a FB post by someone asking about sleeping and insulating in a van. If the pic is not permissible because carrier name is boldly displayed I’ll pm you and you’ll understand my concerns.


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[Turtle]

Like John said earlier, just because someone says a van is under 10,000lbs. Is it really?

Ah, OK, got it. A listing for sale or something like that. Asking "is it really?" is a good one to ask, especially since most, but not all, dually cargo vans are over 10,000 pounds. I think there's a Chevy (I think, but I can't remember) that has a box truck that actually weighs out at a GVWR of 9,990 or something like that. But I think those were built specifically for U-Haul. They do exist, and I think it's a 10 foot box. I rented one. Sorry that I can't remember the details, but I do remember that it was under-10,000 GVWR.

If it's in a for-sale listing, and it's listed at 10,000, I'd want to know the actual GVWR that's showing on the door jam. The seller should be able to provide a picture of that.

If the DOT pulls you over because they think it's a CMV, they won't pay any attention to the decals on the side of the door, they'll look for the manufacturer and/or upfitter plate, or look up the VIN to get the weight class. Well, if the plate or VIN doesn't match the decals, that's when they'll pay close attention to the decals.

Yes I understand what the upfitters may state but the proof is in the actual weighing of the vehicle.

Yep, because it's not just the GVWR, but the actual weight, as well. If you have a vehicle with a GVWR of 9,990 and you load 60 pounds overweight, well now you're in CMV territory. Doesn't matter that it's a 9,990 vehicle.

An upfitter is required to put a GVWR on the vehicle after installing a box. You can get an upfitter to de-rate a vehicle that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds to be less-than 10,000 pounds, and that's fine, but you better never actually weigh more than 10,000 pounds. Every now and then someone will get a vehicle with a GVWR of 12,800 pounds or something, then get it de-rated to 9,999, but continue to load it up to 12,8000. If you do that and get caught, it's not just no log book, no scaling (failure to obey traffic control device), and no medical card, but they'll slap you with willfully and intentionally evading the federal regulations.

I’ve attached a picture of the van in question the actual conversation is in a FB post by someone asking about sleeping and insulating in a van. If the pic is not permissible because carrier name is boldly displayed I’ll pm you and you’ll understand my concerns.

It should be fine. The pic certainly goes to the conversation, and it's publicly available information.

 

[RedBird]

Ah, OK, got it. A listing for sale or something like that. Asking "is it really?" is a good one to ask, especially since most, but not all, dually cargo vans are over 10,000 pounds. I think there's a Chevy (I think, but I can't remember) that has a box truck that actually weighs out at a GVWR of 9,990 or something like that. But I think those were built specifically for U-Haul. They do exist, and I think it's a 10 foot box. I rented one. Sorry that I can't remember the details, but I do remember that it was under-10,000 GVWR.

If it's in a for-sale listing, and it's listed at 10,000, I'd want to know the actual GVWR that's showing on the door jam. The seller should be able to provide a picture of that.

If the DOT pulls you over because they think it's a CMV, they won't pay any attention to the decals on the side of the door, they'll look for the manufacturer and/or upfitter plate, or look up the VIN to get the weight class. Well, if the plate or VIN doesn't match the decals, that's when they'll pay close attention to the decals.

Yep, because it's not just the GVWR, but the actual weight, as well. If you have a vehicle with a GVWR of 9,990 and you load 60 pounds overweight, well now you're in CMV territory. Doesn't matter that it's a 9,990 vehicle.

An upfitter is required to put a GVWR on the vehicle after installing a box. You can get an upfitter to de-rate a vehicle that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds to be less-than 10,000 pounds, and that's fine, but you better never actually weigh more than 10,000 pounds. Every now and then someone will get a vehicle with a GVWR or 12,800 pounds or something, then get it de-rated to 9,999, but continue to load it up to 12,8000. If you do that and get caught, it's not just no log book, no scaling (failure to obey traffic control device), and no medical card, but they'll slap you with willfully and intentionally evading the federal regulations.

It should be fine. The pic certainly goes to the conversation, and it's publicly available information.

Here’s the pic. Now going back to my question in an earlier post you guys give me your honest opinion. One pic is of the vehicle in question other one is what I found in comparison.

Check out what I found on Facebook Marketplace.2002 Ford Econoline E350 Super Duty Cutaway - Cars, Trucks & Motorcycles - Yorkville, Illinois - Marketplace | Facebook



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[Kip life]

Me I sense a degree of elitism from John becuase of his company is running on new trucks .

In real world most carriers are just like the one pictured above ..

Shipper don't care and don't pay enough to get new trucks

All my 3 trucks are 2004/2005 straights They probably will never see day of light at load 1 ,but I am heading there ..on day I will be having 3 brand new 2017 M2s....

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[Turtle]

Check out what I found on Facebook Marketplace.2002 Ford Econoline E350 Super Duty Cutaway - Cars, Trucks & Motorcycles - Yorkville, Illinois - Marketplace | Facebook

The one at Facebook, it says right there on the door plate that it's 11,500 pounds GVWR. The DKP Express truck, depending on the year, they did make a dually that was rated at exactly 10,000 pounds. The 2012 I think was that way I'd want to see the door plate to be sure. That's a pretty tight tolerance for avoiding going overweight tho.

 

[Moot]

The DKP Express truck could be legally de-rated to 10,000 lbs. But that size box with two extra tires and rims, wood floor and V-8, the payload to stay under 10G is probably about 1,500 lbs. Maybe it works for them?
.

 

[Moot]

.

 

[RedBird]

The one at Facebook, it says right there on the door plate that it's 11,500 pounds GVWR. The DKP Express truck, depending on the year, they did make a dually that was rated at exactly 10,000 pounds. The 2012 I think was that way I'd want to see the door plate to be sure. That's a pretty tight tolerance for avoiding going overweight tho.

My point exactly and when I was told it was hauling 9 stackable skids. If that van is right at 10,000. I have a hard time that 9 stackable skids is 2800lbs. It would be over the 10,000lbs rule and need to log and scale. Next concern.....where is the DOT and MC numbers posted on van? I can’t find any!


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[RedBird]

The DKP Express truck could be legally de-rated to 10,000 lbs. But that size box with two extra tires and rims, wood floor and V-8, the payload to stay under 10G is probably about 1,500 lbs. Maybe it works for them?
.
View attachment 17364

The white van pictured, I was told could handle a max of 2800lbs. So like Turtle stated if it’s right at 10,000lbs. Anything over is going make it log and scale.

Now the yellow truck, I remember hearing the earlier models in the 90’s were rated under 10,000lbs but couldn’t carry much weight. The newer Penske cubes I understand to be rated over 10,000lbs.

But again where are the DOT and MC numbers posted on van.

*I completely agree with John on appearance of vehicles. However as someone stated earlier we all can’t afford brand new vans. I think OVM is the best example of running an older model sprinter but keeping its appearance as best he could but mechanically was in tip top shape.

My concern is go after carriers such as DKP and I hate to single them out but proof is in the pictures. If you’re going to put signs on truck telling public your name and phone number and it’s under 10,000lbs. Then put your DOT and MC numbers on too as required by law.

Complaining to the shippers is not the answer but educating these carriers is where it needs to start. And will the sudden upsurge of people wanting to get their own authority. Classes need to be taught at Expedite Expo on this topic!


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[RedBird]

View attachment 17365
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View attachment 17366

It has single rear wheels so it probably is under 10,000lbs. *Not sure I like the sleeper set up having to climb up to your bed. But to each his own!


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[VSprinter]

It has single rear wheels so it probably is under 10,000lbs. *Not sure I like the sleeper set up having to climb up to your bed. But to each his own!


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I think the key feature of those two is "dock high".
At least I talked to one with such setup that was dock high.

"Amazing Grace, half-decent rates..."