Israel Is Not A Real Partner For Peace

[RLENT]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the documented evidence that Israel is not really a partner for peace and instead is simply interested drawing out the "peace process" for as long as it possibly can, while it continues to act illegally in dispossessing and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from their own land, and building settlements in the Occupied Territories (illegal under international law)

Here's clear evidence that a majority in the current Israeli government have no interest in a "two-state" solution - despite saying otherwise:

Knesset votes down the two-state solution

 

[davekc]

I believe that has been the case for years. If not, they would have had a agreement between the two long ago. Of course that seems to be always left out.

 

[RLENT]

I believe that has been the case for years. If not, they would have had a agreement between the two long ago. Of course that seems to be always left out.

Yup ... and it is being candidly acknowledged - at least by some - within Israel itself:

Haaretz op-ed cuts to the chase: "Israel does have a solution: do nothing"

 

[RLENT]

And a real problem in terms of the "optics" of the US being an unbiased, honest broker for a fair and just peace:

Are there any Arab-Americans on State's Israel/Palestine team?

 

[RLENT]

Netanyahu appears to be throwing up roadblocks to peace in the peace process - apparently while talking out of both sides of his mouth:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has told Likud cabinet ministers and other Israeli officials that he would not accept any reference to Jerusalem in the framework agreement being drafted by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, senior Israeli officials told Haaretz.

One senior official said Netanyahu stressed that he would not agree to a document that mentions, even in a general way, the establishment of a Palestinian capital anywhere in Jerusalem. Netanyahu made it clear he would insist on this, even at the cost of the failure of the talks on the framework agreement.

(Article continues at link below)

Netanyahu rejects inclusion of Jerusalem in Kerry's framework deal - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz

Under the original proposed 1947 UN partition plan for Palestine, Jerusalem was to be an international city - one which had guaranteed access for everyone - no matter one's nationality, religion, or race:

The UNGA has stated that the international community, through the United Nations has a legitimate interest, regarding the protection of Jerusalem's unique spiritual, religious and cultural dimensions. Its position on the question of Jerusalem is based upon General Assembly resolution 181 (II) November 29, 1947, which provides for the full territorial internationalisation of Jerusalem: "The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations."

This position was restated in the wake of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War in UN General Assembly Resolution 303 (IV) of 1949. According to a 1979 report prepared for and under the guidance of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, the UN has maintained that until the final status of the city is agreed by the parties involved, the legal status of the city remains a corpus separatum.

The United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) does not recognise Israel's proclamation of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which is, for example, reflected in the wording of General Assembly Resolution 63/30 of 2009 which states that "any actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, to impose its laws, jurisdiction and administration on the Holy City of Jerusalem are illegal and therefore null and void and have no validity whatsoever, and calls upon Israel to cease all such illegal and unilateral measures."

A total of six UN Security Council resolutions on Israel have denounced or declared invalid Israel's control of the city, including UNSC resolution 478 which affirmed that the enactment of the 1980 Basic Jerusalem Law declaring unified Jerusalem as Israel's "eternal and indivisible" capital, was a violation of international law. The resolution advised member states to withdraw their diplomatic representation from the city.

The UN including the Security Council have consistently affirmed its position that East Jerusalem is occupied territory subject to the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The International Court of Justice in its 2004 Advisory opinion on the "Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory" described East Jerusalem as "occupied Palestinian territory."

The Palestinians are willing to settle for East Jerusalem, where they want their capital city to be.

Netanyahu and Israel say: "No we Israelis must have it all ..."

Israel is a criminal, outlaw, rogue nation ... unwilling to abide by international law.

 

[RLENT]

An amusing and humorous (albeit sad) look at the pickle Bibi has gotten himself into: Even if he truly wanted to deliver peace - and I do not believe that he does yet - he probably couldn't deliver it.

His radical compadres are totally oblivious that they are whistling past the graveyard at this point and are thoroughly locked into their own obstinance - illustrating clearly the extremist state to which the Israeli political scene has progressed:

There are many indications that Netanyahu has made a discovery comparable only to Columbus’ discovery of America: in order to survive as the democratic homeland of the Jewish people, Israel needs to end the occupation of the West Bank. I say this not only based on his public pronunciations, but after conversations with sources I deem both trustworthy and knowledgeable, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

It takes a man of truly staggering brilliance to come to this conclusion. In a flash of insight, Netanyahu saw that Israel couldn’t maintain its Jewish character and remain a democracy if there is virtual parity between the Jewish and Palestinian populations. Furthermore, his keen intellect realized that the Western world has not accepted and will not accept Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank.

With the eye of a hawk, he began to see that Israel’s economy and international standing are gravely endangered by the occupation, and that the European Union means business in saying that it will no longer cooperate with Israeli institutions that are active in the West Bank. He also realized that the United States was not Israel’s servant but actually has views of its own, even though it took him some decades to come to this spectacular conclusion.

This flash of insight shows that Netanyahu truly is the Israeli Churchill: a man who sees far into the future and has both spectacular foresight and amazing strategic depth.

He did, admittedly, get a little help. There were all kinds of dwarves who warned of the dangers of the occupation. Some of them, like Amos Oz and Yeshayahu Leibowitz, said so very soon after the Six Day War in 1967. Others, like Shimon Peres and Rabin, came to that conclusion in the early 1990s. And there were some minor figures, like the six former chiefs of the Shin Bet interviewed in the documentary The Gatekeepers – not to speak of all those bothersome intellectuals like A.B. Yehoshua, David Grossman and Zeev Sternhell, who simply couldn’t stop pointing out that the occupation was Israel’s catastrophe.

(Article continues at the link below)

Even if Netanyahu agrees to a deal, Likud is unlikely to back him - Haaretz

 

[RLENT]

No surprise here ... the fanatical Zionists want it all, and the indigenous inhabitants whose land it actually is can apparently just go to **** as far as they are concerned:

Thousands of Israeli Teens Protest Against Peace

Coalition Hawks Lead March Demanding More Settlements

by Jason Ditz, February 13, 2014

Print This | Share This

Thousands of Israeli teenagers took part in a protest march today through the occupied West Bank. They started in the city of Ma’ale Adumim and marched into the E-1 region, demanding an end to peace talks, and a massive increase in settlement construction.

“We’re here to tell the whole world that the land is ours,” declared Israeli Deputy FM Ze’ev Elkin, one of several hawkish cabinet members who took part in the protest rally.

E-1 is a small, mostly empty area whose primary value is that it is the only settlement-free tract of land in the West Bank that connects the northern and southern portions of the Palestinian territory, and the only way a Palestinian state will ever be remotely contiguous.

Efforts to build Israeli settlements on the tract are centered on the idea that this would be the final death knell for Palestinian statehood, and Palestinian officials have insisted they will take Israel to court internationally over the territory.

The Israeli Housing Ministry has repeatedly approved settlement construction in the E-1 but Netanyahu, fearing the backlash if this move is what finally kills the already weak peace process, has so far cancelled such orders.​

Thousands of Israeli Teens Protest Against Peace

That it involved thousands of teenagers is some evidence (IMO) of how Israel is increasingly trending/evolving rightward, towards an authoritarian, fascist state.

 

[RLENT]

Additional, more detailed coverage (including photos) from Israeli media:

Rightist ministers, MKs protest: There will be only one state - Israel News, Ynetnews

 

[skyraider]

Palestine Population | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast Palestinians represent .06 percent of the worlds population.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Palestine Population | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast Palestinians represent .06 percent of the worlds population.

whats your point?......they don't count?......South Dakota has less then 1% of US population.....should that state be eliminated?
And the Jewish population is .2%.....

The population of Iceland represents less than 0.01 percent of the world´s total population ......which is far far fewer Icelanders...

 

[scottm4211]

whats your point?......they don't count?......South Dakota has less then 1% of US population.....should that state be eliminated?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

 

[RLENT]

Palestine Population | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast Palestinians represent .06 percent of the worlds population.

Realizing that not everyone may subscribe to the following as a matter of religious faith, I nevertheless offer it simply from the context of a practical wisdom, which might be applied in the everyday world to relations among men:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[muttly]

Palestinians Confirm: It?s a ?No? « Commentary Magazine

Abbas : 'NO' to being a partner in peace.

 

[RLENT]

Palestinians Confirm: It?s a 'No' « Commentary Magazine

Yup - 'No' ... to Kerry's framework ...

Abbas : 'NO' to being a partner in peace.

That's twice now that I can recall that you've done this: making it appear as though someone had said something that they actually hadn't ...

Last time was when you offered a (inaccurate) quote of EU Parliament President Schulz ...

Apparently you have decided that rather than speaking directly to the 4 questions I posed to you in another thread, you will effectively address and answer them by your ongoing conduct.

I think that between not directly answering/addressing them, and your ongoing conduct, the actual answers will be quite clear ...

Abbas has not said "no to being a partner in peace" ... he's just said that he ain't gonna do it using a "framework" that isn't fair and equitable - like the one being offered up by Kerry.

 

[muttly]

The quote was 'NO' and then end quote followed by my opinion. Your entire quote is not the quote I posted. Sneaky,sneaky. It is the opinion of many that he hasn't been a partner of peace in the past or anytime in the future. So it will always be 'NO' from Abbyss.
From article:
If anyone out there
believes that Abbas is a realistic partner (following in the footsteps of Yasser Arafat), they should listen to former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who came out last week and explained what happened behind closed doors in the negotiating room. In an interview with Channel 2, Olmert said that in the 36 meetings he held with Abbas, everything was agreed The only thing that was missing was a signature.
Olmert gave up the Jordan Valley, divided Jerusalem, handed over control of the Temple Mount, returned to the 1967 lines, retreated to the settlement blocs, made territorial swaps, agreed in principle to the right of return, accepted the symbolic resettlement of 5,000 refugees, and invited Abbas to fly with him to the U.N. General Assembly, where they would jointly declare the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. He even held out a pen for Abbas to take so that he could initial the deal.
How surprising -- Abbas refused. Today, there is widespread consensus. Since Abbas didn't sign then, he won't sign ever.

Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News: 02/14 Links Pt1: PA tells Kerry NO to framework deal; The obstinancy of Abbas

 

[muttly]

You're wrong about Schulz too. Par for the course from you though.

 

[RLENT]

The quote was 'NO' and then end quote followed by my opinion.

Well, due to the lack of formatting - which differentiates your words from those you're quoting - it often isn't real clear which words are actually yours ...

Your entire quote is not the quote I posted. Sneaky, sneaky.

Based on a comparison of posts #13 and #14 it would seem that the post of yours I quoted is indeed accurate ... which isn't terribly surprising because I used the "QUOTE" feature in the software of forum to do it.

Now, I realize - based on the apparent lack of you ever using this feature (which seems to indicate at least unfamiliarity, if not complete and total mystification) - that you may find this akin to some natural phenomena, which superstitious folks of old sought to explain by the moods of the gods ... or something ...

But it's really pretty straightforward.

It is the opinion of many that he hasn't been a partner of peace in the past or anytime in the future.

In the opinion of the better-informed (non Ziobot) folks, the Israelis haven't been a partner for peace in the past ... and likely won't be in the future ... until the pain becomes so great that they have no other choice ...

So it will always be 'NO' from Abbyss.

From article:

Now you're going to cite/quote a complete moron ... who thinks that if Israel just destroys enough homes in Israel proper, of displaced Palestinian refugees, Israel's problems will be solved ... because it will do away with the Palestinian Right of Return ...

Seriously ?

Regarding Ohlmert ... his comments on the matter are just as self-serving as anything I could post from Abbas or the PA ...

BTW - glad to see that you appear to be recovering nicely from that bad case of laryngitis of the fingertips you have had lately ... I was beginning to wonder if the "Copy" and "Paste" keys were the only two keys that worked on your keyboard.

Here's to a full recovery ...

 

[RLENT]

You're wrong about Schulz too. Par for the course from you though.

If it were actually true that I was wrong you could show it ... but you haven't ...

Fact of the matter is you altered Schulz's words.

Purported quote of Schulz from the Muttly-verse:

'I didn't check the data.'

Actual Schulz quote (from Deutche Welle) in the EoZ article Muffy cited:

"I haven't checked the data. I'm asking you if this is correct."

The point being that you - for whatever unknown reason (laziness, lack of concern for accuracy, etc) - did not provide an accurate quote ... when you easily could have ... simply by using the copy/paste function (something which under normal circumstances you seem to be quite a fan of) ....

If you wish to maintain that you did actually quote Schulz accurately, then show us the source from which you obtained the quote.

Otherwise ...

 

[RLENT]

From the Times of Israel, 6 hours ago:

Abbas: We don’t want to divide Jerusalem, or flood Israel with refugees


PA president tells young Israelis that two municipalities can share capital, denounces unequal water rights, acknowledges anti-Israel incitement

BY RAPHAEL AHREN February 16, 2014, 4:32 pm

RAMALLAH — The Palestinians want East Jerusalem as their capital but do not seek to divide the city, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Sunday. He also said he did not want to flood Israel with millions of Palestinian refugees.

“We don’t want to redivide Jerusalem,” he told 300 Israeli students and young activists at the Muqata, his presidential compound. “We would leave the city open, and have two municipalities with one governing body above them. This is the meaning of coexistence,” he said to raucous applause.

Abbas also accused Israel’s current government of discriminating against the Palestinians vis-à-vis the distribution of water, claiming that Israelis are permitted to consume 12 times more water than Palestinians. “We are humans, you need to take a shower, I need to take a shower. You need to drink, I need to drink,” he said. “We are similar, why do you take 12 times more?”

The Palestinian leader admitted that anti-Israeli incitement exists and that it needs to be confronted. However, he argued that the Palestinians for years have been willing to discuss incitement in a trilateral committee with the Israelis and the Americans, but that such efforts had failed due to Israeli obstinacy.

(Article continues at link below)

Abbas: We don't want to divide Jerusalem, or flood Israel with refugees | The Times of Israel

 

[RLENT]

Also from around 6 hours ago:

Abbas signals flexibility on Palestinian refugees - Yahoo!

(One should note that neither Abbas or the Israeli government has the ability to "negotiate" the Palestinian "Right of Return" away. It is an individual right under international law, and for someone to relinquish it, it necessarily involves them doing so voluntarily on an individual basis)