Is France actually gearing up for a fight ?
- Thread starter louixo
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dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
The countdown begins now....the one that counts the time until someone comes along and tells you that you're an islamaphobe....3....2.....1
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
I recommend Mark Steyn's "America Alone".....the demographics alone should get your attention.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK watched the segment, and wonder what you guys are getting all up in arms about.
For some reason that's france's problem, not ours.
They are pretty much their own enemy when it comes to the "islamanation of paris"
See many of you get all bent out of shape of this crap, which it is, because France is under attack.
Well let's put this all in context of the situation with the real issues.
The first thing is France's culture is rather a rude and closed one. They have a hard time accepting Muslims, just like they have a hard time accepting eastern Europeans. They use excuses like how their national pride is hurt by these "invaders" who are actually faced with a real problem ...
That problem is the second thing, many of these people that include Muslims and others for that matter, live in poverty. The French have setup a class system and acceptance of some types of people who move there will never be able to move out of that class. This leads to the rioting that has happened in Paris (and a few other places) by different groups of Youth. They feel that they will never amount to anything unless the government helps change things and I have to agree with them. This is in part caused by a third issue ...
Which is France, even though giving up most of their colonies in the early 1960's, still has no ability to be flexible enough to accept those from former colonies within their country and actually helping them assimilate. Assimilation is another issue but I won't get into their failures with that ...
... instead I want to point out that France instead of being the country of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité, it is more like limited liberty, no equality and forget brotherhood - we don't know you. here is a country that outlaws religious activities, tries to limit other freedoms not based on any real need to prevent any damage to the nation but rather because of fear and arrogance.
So let's be a bit more realistic about this, most of Europe has been causing their own problems and this is no different.
For some reason that's france's problem, not ours.
They are pretty much their own enemy when it comes to the "islamanation of paris"
See many of you get all bent out of shape of this crap, which it is, because France is under attack.
Well let's put this all in context of the situation with the real issues.
The first thing is France's culture is rather a rude and closed one. They have a hard time accepting Muslims, just like they have a hard time accepting eastern Europeans. They use excuses like how their national pride is hurt by these "invaders" who are actually faced with a real problem ...
That problem is the second thing, many of these people that include Muslims and others for that matter, live in poverty. The French have setup a class system and acceptance of some types of people who move there will never be able to move out of that class. This leads to the rioting that has happened in Paris (and a few other places) by different groups of Youth. They feel that they will never amount to anything unless the government helps change things and I have to agree with them. This is in part caused by a third issue ...
Which is France, even though giving up most of their colonies in the early 1960's, still has no ability to be flexible enough to accept those from former colonies within their country and actually helping them assimilate. Assimilation is another issue but I won't get into their failures with that ...
... instead I want to point out that France instead of being the country of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité, it is more like limited liberty, no equality and forget brotherhood - we don't know you. here is a country that outlaws religious activities, tries to limit other freedoms not based on any real need to prevent any damage to the nation but rather because of fear and arrogance.
So let's be a bit more realistic about this, most of Europe has been causing their own problems and this is no different.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
I know very little about France but I am allowed an opinion and I feel that if this is illegal then it would seem that they're doing this out of intimidation. I would think the same thing if it were here.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
NO not at all.
Here's why.
The French have a different government, starting with their history, their take over by foreign born people and the fact that they have had no less than 7 forms of government since our founding.
They allow less checks and balances within their bloated system of bureaucracy and for example have more latitude to change their entire judicial system to appease those who in their society who feel changes needed to be made.
The other reason is their constitution is setup in such a way that they define rights not like we do but as a declaration - Déclaration des droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen. What I mean is they make a declaration, pretty much telling the government that these rights of man should be absolute but opposite to our where we limit the government to prevent them from walking over our rights because they are absolute. Hence one reason why they can tell people where and when to worship, where we really can't.
Well don't look at it as an American but try to look at it as a person from Algeria or Morocco. Think about where these people are coming from and what they go through to live. What I mean by closed society is what happened here with Jim Crow laws.
Most of the rioting I would say, as many of the experts have been saying too are the caused by the poverty coupled with serious hopelessness of many who are living there. This is aggravated by the ignorant who look at everyone who does not look like Bridget Bardot as the enemy. The classic problem for us that can illustrate the problem is an American in Paris facing a French style of contempt.
Yes but see we are fighting it where over there it is an acceptable way of life. Don't forget one of the biggest problems for many Europeans to understand is how we have people who are poor one year and rich the next and don't see them as belonging to one caste or another. A good example is how many titles are still honored by Europeans?
Our messiah is one who with his friends talk about how horrible our country is but fail to mention that over in Germany they are still fighting among themselves over which immigrants to allow in some parts of the country.
Well see that's all true, and by the way he seems to be failing to a point but France more specifically than any other country has had a habit of telling its citizens how to live for more than a century, it is the mentality from being subjects of a monarchy.
Here it is a bit different and pretty much depends on the congress to pay for things and CAN change.
Assimilation is the society's responsibly, not the government or anyone else. Take the idea that the Muslims want to take over the world thing out for a moment and think about how France treated people from say Vietnam? Pretty d*mn harsh if you look at the history. What this means is that even though if you were a Vietnamese and went to Paris to get a degree, you were and always will not be part of Paris society until you act like Paris society. Here is it is a bit different, we don't tell people that because you came from Poland, you have to stop acting like a pole. If you want to understand a bit more, rent the movie Gandhi and watch the train scene in the first 30 minutes of the movie.
Actually their laws from what I read target Islam, no other religion.
Well in a way we did bring 9/11 on ourselves but that's because we were lax and didn't care. Pretty much as Petraeus said last week 'no one knows that there is a war going on'.
BUT not your point, I know. They have done everything they could to stifle the Muslims in France because of their "fears" of a take over internally. The same thing is going on in the Netherlands where they look at any compromise made is a move for appeasement and it all shows weakness on the French's part. Once that weakness shows, it is payback for the treatment of Moroccans, Syrians, Lebanese and others where France had colonies and treated everyone like slaves.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
You've given me some food for thought, Greg and that's about as much as can be expected from my tired old brain today! 
You've got a political group operating under the cover of a religion and taking over nations and societies little by little through minority protection, political moves etc. and nothing more. Oh, and I'm not phobic of anything I just can see the forest in spite of the trees.