IRS..we estimate you owe us...

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
For now the IRS is only going after the rich..BUT you know what can happen to the little guy..

KAHLER: Government might seek proof of your wealth

Rick Kahler rapidcityjournal.com | Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010

The U.S. government may be taking its war on the rich to the next level. The IRS is now contemplating making wealthy Americans prove how they earned their wealth.

“Our government has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime in its mad attempt to reduce the debt!” writes Rich Colman, a Boston attorney and financial planner.

Colman says the easy method would be for the country to try a combination of raising taxes and reducing spending. Instead, the IRS has come up with the novel strategy of auditing how people obtained their wealth. He notes this is simply a way of raising taxes without raising the tax rate.

Colman envisions a scenario where an IRS agent comes to your home and starts estimating its value, looking at you as if you are the clone of the Ponzi scheme king, Bernie Madoff. “Did you really earn that money you have in those brokerage accounts?”

He knows that less than 9 percent of Americans have assets in excess of $100,000. You say your wealth was accumulated through frugal savings over the decades.

“Then, where is the proof?”

To prove this, you will need to dig through decades of records, some of which no longer exist because the government only requires you to keep records for three years. When you can’t prove how you accumulated your net worth, Colman says the IRS will calculate what it feels someone of your means would have normally accumulated. Any amount over that estimate they will assume you accumulated illegally. It will then calculate how much money you owe the government in back taxes and penalties.


Colman suggests this may result in you having to liquidate assets and possibly even jail time.

“Although this scenario seems like something out of a Woody Allen movie, the IRS recently announced that they are seriously contemplating this type of audit!” he writes.

The current administration believes that years of reduced audits have enabled many people to evade taxes. Colman says, “The new ‘pot of gold’ that the IRS believes it can seize with some changes in its rules and procedures is related to uncovering the trillions of potential IRS revenue, hidden or not reported in previous years.”

To pull this off, Colman says, the IRS will create a new division, the Global High Wealth Exam Group, charged with scrutinizing the past tax returns of high net-worth individuals. This group will be made of “wealth squads” of highly trained and experienced agents with the skills to delve into the examination of the returns and the people who prepared the returns.

“Each of these squads will have its specialist focused on one particular area of tax evasion, i.e. financial securities, exempt organizations, etc.,” Colman said.

What does this all mean to you? For now, perhaps, not much. Colman said initially the audits will only involve those worth tens of millions of dollars.

But if it is successful in finding “a few criminals in this group, then it won’t be long before the government widens its new strategy to every person with incomes over $250,000,” he said. This would be similar to what happened with the once-rare alternative minimum tax.

Colman suggests the new wealth audits may even create an industry: professionals schooled in protecting your assets from the government.

Apparently, our government has a money script that anyone who has wealth must have accumulated it illegally. One of the destructive consequences of this money script will be the considerable cost for those who will be forced to prove they have followed the rules.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I thought if you're charged with something, the burden of proof is on the accuser. So much for due process. Oh, I forgot... when going against the CIA (a private entity), the burden of proof is on the accused! How screwed up is that?
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
the irs works on "fear tactics", always have ....screw'em...

While I have screwed with the irs for yrs and will continue to use their own rules to my benefit, i have also been looking into this option for a few months. i am at the point of seeing what if any rules have been changed to top this, but right now my lawyer hasn't found too much. so maybe wthina yr or 2 I'll go this route, you might look into it. I won't give you and links to lead you in a certain direction, but a simple google will provide enough nfo to keep you busy and thinking about what you find.

Affidavit of Revocation and Rescission
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I don't know if you all noticed this but the IRS has changed in the last 18 months. Under the present administration they have shifted from being tax payer friendly to more ruthless in their ways and means to generate revenue.

HAVE you all been told about the 1099 changes? You better find out if it affects you, for those who it will, it will be a nightmare.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't know if you all noticed this but the IRS has changed in the last 18 months. Under the present administration they have shifted from being tax payer friendly to more ruthless in their ways and means to generate revenue.

HAVE you all been told about the 1099 changes? You better find out if it affects you, for those who it will, it will be a nightmare.

What changes? Have a quick and dirty link to look at?
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The changes in 1099 pay and charge are numerous and ridcules, you can now get 1099's on moneies that you never have in the past...but they are what they are and most will be affected in one way or another...best to talk with your accountant to see how you will be affected...again, the irs puts the fear in the people to get them to compile...theft my the government is all it is....
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
the irs works on "fear tactics", always have ....screw'em...

Affidavit of Revocation and Rescission
You know, Chef, after having googled and read a page about this revocation and rescission, I find that they use a lot of terminology usually used by people we would call "looney tunes." I'd love to know how this strategy works out for you.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
A page?? I gave over 300 pages of different case histories to my lawyer. LOL, as for the terminalogy...most of it is legalize that is needed to deal with the IRS and the SS Admin...so yea I can see how you might look at those using alot of the terms as "Looney tunes"...

This is something that a small group people I know along with myself are looking at, along with a few other situation...it ain't happening tomorrow...now that being said, 2 people in this group now hold dual citizenship in the US and New Zealand...that process was started yrs ago, but during that time, the irs still taxes Americans living out of the country....they both are real close to going "EX-Pat" and giving up their US citizenship and staying in NZ where as now they stayed long enough to get their citizenship there but went back and forth and still held their US citizenship...


People are getting real tired of our government and the irs , not just barry, this goes back long before his B/S......You would be amazed at the # of people going EX Pat....I was....

So until I get all of the hard info on the changes that have been made over the yrs to deal with R & R and if it is a viable thing anymore, I'll just continue to screw with the irs as best as i can...it has served me well for more then a few yrs.....


Oh and one more thing about the Looney Tunes , most people that screw with the irs and fight the illegal income tax are thought of as being "Looney Tunes"....:D
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Just remember that the IRS uses a lot of resources to get what they think is owed to them. You may have the law on your side but they seem to have a lot deeper pockets than anyone around.

The best thing is to change the tax system, not amend the code. If people are getting fed up as some have said on the radio and on forums, then change should happen fast.

I hope the 1099 requirements starts waking people up, it is a money grab and nothing else. When some people realize the impact to their lives over this minor but significant issue, maybe then they will wake up.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Eliminate the income tax. Go to a straight Nation Sales tax, NOT a VAT. NO double taxes. If there is a tax on an item now, like the Pittman/Robinson tax, NO sales tax on that item. Keep it to 10% or LESS. Put the burden of MOST spending and taxing on the STATES as it was meant to be. Washington has been dictating to the States for far too long. It has to stop.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
NO not a national sales tax, that will be a mess - more so than the Fair Tax will be.

If we really want a change, then let's try the Fair Tax.

The reluctance for something different seems to be rather asinine when you think about it, our tax system and even our form of government has been an experiment for the past century.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
What do you call a "Fair Tax"? To me a "Fair Tax" would be NO income tax of ANY kind, everyone pays the same rate and everyone pays taxes. No more freebies. The IRS is cut back to almost nothing. The main taxing authority MUST be the states NOT the Federal government. I believe that the bulk of all tax dollars raised should be raised at the the local and state levels. The power of congress must be curtailed.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
....... What does this all mean to you? For now, perhaps, not much. Colman said initially the audits will only involve those worth tens of millions of dollars......

..... While I have screwed with the irs for yrs and will continue to use their own rules to my benefit.....

..... I hope the 1099 requirements starts waking people up, it is a money grab and nothing else.....

Forgive my ignorance...
I am so confused...

Are any of you expediters here sitting on millions of dollars obtained illegally and on which you paid no taxes?

Are you all happy to pay taxes on your meager earnings, while some who acquire great annual incomes illegally pay zero taxes?

Do you think perhaps if the criminals who acquire great incomes had to pay taxes on their incomes, like everyone else, that perhaps you may pay less?

It's a given that anyone is going to use whatever means they can, to pay the least amount of taxes that they can get away with. I'm sure the IRS fully expects taxpayers to do just that. That's not however, what this article is about.

May I ask where you think alllllllll the money for the infrastructure that you alllllll use on a daily basis comes from? Do you think it just all falls out of a tree one day?

I am not sure if expediters in the USA get 1099s from their carriers each year? We do here. And if you do, why is it ok for you to be issued a 1099 (therefore necessitating you to claim said amount as income), but it's not ok for JoeBlowSmallBizWoodworker to be issued 1099s from all of his customers, who were previously under-the-table-income?

Seems to me that you guys are just so ready and willing to pounce on your government for any reason which sounds like it may affect your 'freedom', that you are missing the fact that you are paying MORE because some earning MUCH more than you, are paying NONE.

If the individual states had to pay for all their own stuff, most would probably go bankrupt within a short time. The country would become segregated into states with nothing to offer, full of people who pay no taxes, and states with much to offer, full of people who work and pay their taxes. Is that what you'd like to see?

I know I'm not a political genius, but can someone help me out with my confusion here?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
PJJJJJ I do think you are missing many points. The current system is set up to insure that a very large percentage of people pay no taxes. NOT the rich as most believe but the low end of the pay scale. That same low end uses most of the public money. In this country you are rewarded for doing nothing and punished for working hard.

Our country was set up to that the power flow from the People, to the local government to the state and LASTLY to the Federal Government. That is how we must return.

The power to tax should be at the local level. That gives the PEOPLE more control over how their hard earned dollars are spent. We all know how Washington spends it.

Everyone should pay the same RATE.

As to the infrastructure, much of the taxes we pay for the roads, for example, is not going to the roads. It goes to welfare projects. Like subsidized buses, trains etc. that lose money. In the mean time the roads are falling apart.

Washington is out of control. We have a right to bring it back under control of the People. It is our birthright.

Do you really think that a very tiny minority of people have the RIGHT to control the vast majority? I don't. That is NOT freedom.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Pjjj, the concern about the 1099s is this is an extra step that is not needed. It is a money grab because of the threshold that is used, $600. There isn't a lot of money being 'lost' because of a lack of 1099's but rather it allows the IRS to trigger more audits and pretty much do what they want. IT has a bad effect on everyone.

There is a need for revenue, we can not derive that revenue from tariffs (the original system) but rather through direct taxation of people's labor. It goes against our foundation that the country was built on.

The original tax system was simplified, but has grown into an industry where the bottom half of the country not just "don't pay any taxes" but actually derive income from the IRS.

The system is broken, it needs to be replace. The Fair Tax is a bit simpler, it is a bit more straight forward and if allowed to work without meddling, it will produce revenue.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Ok I am all for that...let every state keep every tax dollar...and that would end any military spending all those trillions spent on the Pentagon..cause the feds would have no money...:eek:

Social spending is higher than the Pentagon and the military IS a REQUIRED duty of the Federal Government, NOT bus service in Detroit.

The tax system is a mess. It is a mess because, in part, Washington has taken it over. They are NOT meant to be in control. The power where I live should be at the township level.

Washington should only get what monies they need to run the defense department (and that entire mess needs fixed, congress has REALLY messed that up) and other REQUIRED government functions.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
as I said before..as much as you guys pick on Canada as being sort of socialism....
who had the very same programs first?
You did.:eek:
Canada just improved on your mistakes...:D


HEY!! Don't include ME in the U!!! I fought against almost 100% of that socialism stuff!! By the way, I am under the impression that Canada had Federally mandated health care long before we did!!
 
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