Inverter or Generator?

dhalltoyo · Apr 13, 2008

Inverter:

Usage is limited to the battery capacity.

May cause interference with electronic devices.

Easy to use.

Expense to install?

Cost to replace batteries?

Generator:

Portables require refueling; hence, a fuel container too.

Not the easiest to use.

Usage only limited by fuel consumption.

Could also be used around the house or in other applications.

Initial cost seems to be around $1000-1800 for one that could power a microwave or a small A/C unit. It is rated at 3000 watts

Note: Rather than spending $3000 for an Espar, Inverter and batteries, I was considering a generator and an electrical heating unit. I could cut the heater long enough to use the microwave and then resume heating the van. The area to be heated would be approximately 7' x 8' x 8'.

x06col · Apr 13, 2008

Chappy, Small generators will run a LOT more things than you might think.

dhalltoyo · Apr 13, 2008

Have you any info on high efficiency electric heaters that could be powered by a gas generator?

Colonel, I am speaking of a portable (Honda type) generator, not an APU. Just wanted to make sure we is on da same page.

Turtle · Apr 14, 2008

Make sure you check out the expected lifetime running hours of those portables, tho.

RLENT · Apr 14, 2008

David,

Couple of things:

Inverter:

Walmart's Deep Cycle batteries come with a 36 month warranty, and 18 month free replacement.

Generator:

Noisy

An Espar is fairly quiet - but it doesn't solve the cooling problem either.

One thing I know for sure - I wouldn't want to have to get out of the van at 04:00 in Bismarck in January to refuel ...

gandrew · Apr 15, 2008

We ran a small Titan ceramic space heater with our Onan all winter and did fine. Air conditioning will come from the roof top unit. Onan runs off our diesel tanks. Tried doing this with a Honda 2000 watt generator on the last truck, but it was a bit noisy, and I was not comfortable carrying around a fuel can of gasoline. Plus I had to chain up the Honda to the truck while it was on the ground. Burned my hand once while putting it away when I pushed it into the storage box by putting my hand on the muffler cover. ouch. Inverters: be careful about which type of sine wave they put out. The less expensive ones put out a modified sine wave which is ok for most, but some electronics run better on a full, rounded sine wave found only on the better (more expensive) inverters.

dhalltoyo · Apr 15, 2008

If I were in a TT or straight truck, Onan would be my only choice.

Being in a cargo van limits me to available space options.

I like the Espar system, but it doesn't solve my needs for AC power to run a micrwave, or laptop, or recharge my cell, etc. The batteries are limited use power sources. Yes, I could load enough batteries to power an arc welder, but I can't make a living if my load capacity is reduced to carrying a 10 pound package.

Getting out in the cold to do anything is a challenge for me. That is one of the things about getting older that I actually didn't enjoy; I really feel the cold now! That said, I did see an add on fuel tank for the Honda generator that greatly extends the run time. I believe it would make me feel more at ease carrying that tank around and only fueling it at the pump as opposed to filling a gas can then pouring from the can into the add-on tank.

Burning my hand on the exhaust. Uh, well, I'll probably do that do.

Chaining the generator to the truck is an additional consideration.

My other concern about going with the Espar, batteries and an inverter, is what to do with them at the end of the truck's lifecycle. I can easily sell a van body to a home repair or lawn serivce guy, but they won't need or want, the Espar, batteries and inverter.

A portable generator makes for an easy transition to a new truck.

Keep those opinions coming. I am open to any input.

Turtle · Apr 15, 2008

Because a Sprinter will not properly charge AGM deep cycle batteries, I currently have three Wal Mart Everstart Maxx batteries, 125 amp hours each. They run the Espar, Microfridge (fridge and freezer) and microwave, laptop, two external hard drives, printer, 5 florescent lights (usually only one on at a time, but sometimes all of them), cell phone charger, air ionizer, AA battery charger (camera), my vacuum, and anything else I want to plug in there. A microwave is a high amp drawl but it's a few minutes here, a few there, for most people it's 15-30 minutes per day.

You can run an Espar heater for 24 hours on just one of those and still not discharge the battery down to 50%. You don't need $1000 worth of high end deep cycle batteries. I think mine were about $68 each. You also don't want to run any kind of 110-volt resistive heat off batteries, deep cycle or hybrid. Resistive heat includes electric heaters and 110-volt air conditioners, electric ovens, hot plates, and clothes dryers, although you could probably get away with a hot plate or some other small electric cooker. If you want to run a 110 air conditioner, a generator is a must. Otherwise, it's a 12-volt air conditioner.

At the end of the lifecycle of the van, you can remove the Espar and move it to another vehicle.

Several things about the portable generators I don't like. One is, for me, no place to really carry it, and I don't want to carry it outside the van. Another is those portables are not designed for full duty. They are designed for occasional use, not every day, all day, year round use. Most have somewhere between 1000-2000 hours life cycle. The weekend boondocker, around the house, stuff like that, they're perfect for, but for heat all winter, AC all summer and daily power needs all year, it's not the best choice.

Another one is having to deal with it in the rain.

The ideal situation is a couple of deep cycle batteries with a proper charger programmed for deep cycle batteries, and using a generator to charge the batteries, as well as the vehicle's alternator while driving. And use a battery monitor. That way, when you're parked you run stuff off the batteries and you're not wearing out the generator. Most of the time the batteries would recharge while driving, and at other times you'd fire up the generator to recharge the batteries. You'd also have an Espar heater, because the Espar uses far, far less fuel than a generator does under full load, as with an electric heater plus all other loads. In the summer you'd run the generator a lot, using it mainly to run the AC and recharge batteries as needed.

If it were me and I had an E-350 I've have Onan install a 3000 watt generator under the van, put in a couple or three Wal Mart batteries in there, with a battery monitor (very important!), and the Espar heater in, and put an RV AC on the roof, and be done with it. At the end of the van's lifecycle I'd yank everything out and move it all to another van.

greg334 · Apr 15, 2008

Turtle said:
A microwave is a high amp drawl but it's a few minutes here, a few there, for most people it's 15-30 minutes per day.

I never said this before but I got to ask, are those southern microwaves that have a Southern Drawl?

Turtle said:
If it were me and I had an E-350 I've have Onan install a 3000 watt generator under the van, put in a couple or three Wal Mart batteries in there, with a battery monitor (very important!), and the Espar heater in, and put an RV AC on the roof, and be done with it. At the end of the van's lifecycle I'd yank everything out and move it all to another van.

The bigger question would be what is the trade off on the added weight in comparison to the reduction in capacity? if any?

layoutshooter · Apr 15, 2008

Check out West Marine: Home Page They are going to be selling fuel cells!!! They seem to cost as much as some APU's but the price will come down. No noise, no fumes. They will be the ticket some day, soon I hope. Lyaoutshooter

RLENT · Apr 16, 2008

Very cool - except that price tag.

greg334 · Apr 16, 2008

The fuel consumption is too high.

you have to carrier around how much fuel to make it worth while?

layoutshooter · Apr 16, 2008

Prices will come down over time and they will get better on fuel usage as well. At least they
are here. Layoutshooter

greg334 · Apr 16, 2008

layoutshooter said:
Prices will come down over time and they will get better on fuel usage as well. At least they
are here.

True the price will come down but I think the fuel consumption will remain about the same - energy in is greater than the energy out.

layoutshooter · Apr 17, 2008

True for the most part but I think they will learn to be more efficent. Layoutshooter

Bruno · Apr 17, 2008

One thing you can do to keep your batterys charged when running different things is get a solar panel that RV's use to keep there batterys charged. This panel sits on the top of your roof and will keep your batters charged. Just food for thought.

layoutshooter · Apr 18, 2008

I don't need to charge my batteries when I am running, my engine alternator does that. The RV solar pannels work good to keep batteries topped off when they are not being used and your engines is not running. What we need to do is cover the roof of the trucks in solar panels to develope a lot more juice. Or we can use that nano-tech paint that they are working on. It converts sunlight in electricity at a much higher rate than solar panels and it can't be blown off by the wind. I would like to see a usable wind generator that can be rasied and lowered at a cost that a normal person can afford. As time goes on we will get much smarter about how we power our toys when we are sitting still. It can and will will done. Layoutshooter

Moot · Apr 19, 2008

I found this in the archives.

Gener8
Member

Join Date: May 2005
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Posts: 42

RE:
ON this subject I feel real confident that I can add some input. I have an onan 2.8k microlite generator mounted under the van where the spare tire used to be.( it does not hang as low as the spare tire.) It runs an ac unit, rv roof type. It also handles a ceramic heater just fine plus I can plug in the engine heater. It handles anything just fine. Proper electrical work is a must. The spare tire is now under my bunk. Any questions just let me know.