Installing a battery charger

[jjoerger]

I want to install a 10 amp battery charger under my bunk to keep the batteries up while I am at home. It will be plugged in to shore power. Can I connect the 12 volt wires coming from the charger to the 12 volt posts on my inverter? Or do I need to run them to the batteries themselves. It would be much easier and require much less wire. I am not an electrician so I could use the advice. Thanks.

 

[greg334]

I would run them to the batteries, the cabling isn't thick at all.

Get a good charger by the way.

 

[Turtle]

You can connect them at the inverter posts, assuming the cables from the inverter to the batteries is less than 3 feet. If the cables from the inverter are more than 3 or 4 feet long, then there will be too much of a voltage drop and you'll want to connect the charger directly to the batteries. It should also be connected at the same battery terminals that the inverter is connected to. The charging source, whatever it may be, should always be connected to the same terminals that the primary amp draw is connected to. So if the cabling from the inverter is short enough, then you're good to go with connecting the charger directly to the inverter.

 

[layoutshooter]

I have a Dual Pro Sportsman 2 bank tied straight to my house batteries. I have the same in a 4 bank for my starters. Don't have that one hooked up yet. I can't find a good place to mount it, keep it out of the weather and my lead wires short. I got them at their reconditioned shop. Much cheaper that way.




Pro Charging Systems

 

[Turtle]

That charger is waterproof, far as I know. I think all the PRO Sportsman chargers are waterproof marine chargers. They also make 5, 10 and 15 foot extender cables for their chargers. They're excellent chargers.

 

[layoutshooter]

That charger is waterproof, far as I know. I think all the PRO Sportsman chargers are waterproof marine chargers. They also make 5, 10 and 15 foot extender cables for their chargers. They're excellent chargers.

I know they are waterproof. I just did not want them outside with salt etc. If I can extend 15' I can put the 4 bank in the same side box as I have the two bank. Yes, the are very good chargers.

 

[layoutshooter]

That charger is waterproof, far as I know. I think all the PRO Sportsman chargers are waterproof marine chargers. They also make 5, 10 and 15 foot extender cables for their chargers. They're excellent chargers.

I know they are waterproof. I just did not want them outside with salt etc. If I can extend 15' I can put the 4 bank in the same side box as I have the two bank. Yes, the are very good chargers.

 

[Turtle]

Here ya go: CCx15 Dual Pro Charger Cable Extension Kit

I ran across that recently when I was looking at the Dual Pro CRS1 Charge on the Run Charger, which is a battery isolator/separator.

 

[layoutshooter]

Here ya go: CCx15 Dual Pro Charger Cable Extension Kit

I ran across that recently when I was looking at the Dual Pro CRS1 Charge on the Run Charger, which is a battery isolator/separator.

I will have to get some, or make them. It should be easy. I have always liked Dual-Pro. I sold them at a 2-1 clip over everything else out there when I did that for a living. I would be looking at that CRS1 but I have isolators on all my batteries.

 

[layoutshooter]

Here ya go: CCx15 Dual Pro Charger Cable Extension Kit

I ran across that recently when I was looking at the Dual Pro CRS1 Charge on the Run Charger, which is a battery isolator/separator.

I will have to get some, or make them. It should be easy. I have always liked Dual-Pro. I sold them at a 2-1 clip over everything else out there when I did that for a living. I would be looking at that CRS1 but I have isolators on all my batteries.

 

[Turtle]

I was hoping the CRS1 (or really the 2-bank model) would have different voltage outputs so I could charge a cranking battery and AGM's with the different required voltages, but alas it's just a pass-thru isolator/charger. I'm still thinking about it, though, as it's a regulated charger, rather than just hooking the alternator to the battery bank, which is what a regular isolator/separator does.

 

[layoutshooter]

I was hoping the CRS1 (or really the 2-bank model) would have different voltage outputs so I could charge a cranking battery and AGM's with the different required voltages, but alas it's just a pass-thru isolator/charger. I'm still thinking about it, though, as it's a regulated charger, rather than just hooking the alternator to the battery bank, which is what a regular isolator/separator does.

I don't know anything about that charger. I do know that when I sold them, (it has been 5 years or so since I did) that Dual Pro said it was NOT advised to hook a multi-bank charger to a mixture of AGM and wet cells. I have NO idea if their thinking has changed. Mine with handle either AGM or wet cell, as long as all are the same type on the charger. I have not kept up with it like I once did.

I am firmly convinced that this type of charger is the way to go. They do a better job on multi bank systems compared to a single bank charger.

 

[Turtle]

The reason is, wet cells and AGM batteries require different charging profiles, or regiments. Overly simplified, wet cells, like a cranking battery, get charged a a varying voltage, anywhere from 13.3 volts to 14.4 volts, but the amps going into the battery stays the same (since too many amps will cause the battery to boil over). AGM batteries require a constant voltage, 14.2-14.6 volt for most of them, but the amps into can vary wildly (because of their low internal resistance they can handle far more amps than a wet cell can).

So, basically, wet cell is constant amps with varying voltage, and AGM is constant voltage with varying amps.

One charger cannot do that, so whatever the charger is hooked up to, all of the banks need to be the same battery type.

Balmar, another boat-centric manufacturer, has external voltage regulators (Xantrex does, too) made to go with their Balrmar alternators, where you can use a single alternator and an external regulator (the DuoCharge) that outputs two different voltages to charge banks of different battery types. The way they works is, you hook the boat's (or vehicle's) alternator directly to the battery bank instead of the vehicle system, which then charges the battery bank directly with the required voltage, and then from the bank you run the DuoCharge to the vehicle's system and it'll output the required voltage for the system. One alternator, dual regulated voltages, two battery systems charged.

The major drawback is that the DuoCharge only outputs 30 amps max to the vehicle's system, which is fine for a boat with a running engine, but not so much for a Sprinter, truck or any vehicle that needs 50 to 80 amps just to run down the road.

So you need some other way to output the correct voltage to each of the different battery types, yet still have enough amps go through. Ideally, multiple alternators would work. Some Sprinters (the passenger models with rear AC) already have the bolt holes in place for a second alternator right there on the engine. But the cargo versions don't, and thus require some modifications.

A company called Averc makes a dual external regulator that's used a lot in Sprinters in Europe, but I can't find one here, and it's expensive.

Bottom line generally speaking is, if you want an AGM battery bank, then you need an AGM cranking battery, so that everything all around is the same.

But back to the CRS1 (and CRS2 two bank, and CRS3 three bank), it's just like your charger, pretty much, except the input voltage and current comes from the alternator instead of shore power. The have another version of "Charge On The Run" chargers that is both 12-volt and 110-volt (I think it's called the Xtreme or something like that), but they are getting rid of those (if they haven't already) in favor of the CRSx models and a separate shore power charger like yours, rather than have a dual unit.

Basically what it does is, it works like a separator/combiner/isolator and will charge your trolling battery while you're under engine power moving to another part of the lake. Except that it's more than just a separator/combiner/isolator in that it's a real charger that will shut off when the battery bank is fully charged, or will do a trickle maintenance charge, as needed. Right now, with a battery separator, which is just a solenoid relay/isolator, when I'm running down the road and the batteries are fully charged, the alternator keeps pushing volts to the bank anyway. Sometimes, especially in very hot weather, that will result in boiling over and overcharged batteries.

The CRS1 works like a separator/isolator/combiner in that it will only push charging current to the house bank when then engine is running and the cranking battery is being charged. If the charging current to the cranking battery every drops below 13 volts it shuts off. Same as the separator does.

I can keep the separator I have, which is in between the cranking battery and the battery bank, and it closes when the engine is running and send the charging current to the bank, but I can install the CRS1 in the bunk. When the separator engages and sends power to the house bank, the CRS1 will engage and charge the house bank just the same as if I had it plugged into shore power charger, with all of the smart charging stuff that goes along with it.

OK, I've just convinced myself, and it's something I should have done a long time ago.

 

[layoutshooter]

Yeah, that is what the engineers at Dual Pro said. I want to put AGM's on my house bank and wet on my starters. I don't THINK that AGM's are as needed on starters as they are on the deep cycle side.

Charging is the KEY to battery life and performance. A good charger can do WONDERS for a less expensive starter. A bad charger can ruin the most expensive AGM.

 

[Turtle]

AGMs as starters are fine, but they're a little on the pricey side for starting batteries. They good for someone with a 1000 Watt audio system, tho, like the Optima batteries are mostly used with. But, as the temp drops below 32 degrees, the available cranking amps really drop off the table with AGMs as compared to regular wet cells. All batteries have reduced cranking amps and amp availability as it gets colder, but AGMs are way worse than wet cells when it gets really cold, like near zero degrees. For a camper, that's fine, and AGMs may very well be preferred as the cranking battery since they can go a long time between charges and have a slow self-discharge, but for people like us, not so much.

Yeah, charging and properly taking care of the battery is critical. It's like when people run off the aux battery (or even their cranking battery as if it were an aux battery), and then when lights start to dim, buzzers go off and inverters start to scream because there's not enough amps in the battery, it's already been beat up pretty bad and discharge way beyond what it should be, and then you crank the engine for 15-30 minutes to recahrge the batteries, and think the batteries are somehow, as if by magic, fully recharged. All that does is accomplish what they call "chronic undercharging" and then people can't understand why their POS battery has died after a few months instead of a few years. Well, it's because they killed it.

Currently, I'm charging the battery bank directly off the alternator, and the alternator and the vehicle's system are the ones determining how the bank gets charged. That's not exactly ideal. There are time when I've been idling to recharge batteries and just about the time the batteries are fully charged, I'll get an 800 mile run, so the battery bank keeps on getting charged at full force for the entire trip. Using a 12-volt On-The-Run charger solves that problem since it's a genuine three stage charger with a 12 amp output, meaning the battery bank won't be constantly overcharged.

So the CRS1 will prevent overcharging, and then combine that with the PowerPulse unit (which provides constant desulfation rather than having to do an "equalizing" charge every few months) and the batteries will last quite a but longer even under the extreme conditions and amperage demands they are operated under.

Anyone with an aux battery fed directly off the alternator should seriously consider an On-The-Fly charger like the CRS1 (Stealth makes a really good one, but it costs twice as much) and the PowerPulse.

 

[layoutshooter]

My APU will start when the batteries get low and stop when they are full. I don't know about what happens when the big engine is running. I have been getting 3 years out of a set of rather cheap (if there is such a thing) these days, Interstate hybrid no water wet cells. I have Alliance wet cell starters and get about the same out of them.

 

[Turtle]

Might want to check the settings on the APU or find out for sure at what point the APU comes on when the batteries are low. Meaning, how low? If it's too low, more than 50% discharged, then they're routinely being discharged too deeply. If it's set for a really low voltage as the trigger, like below 12 volts, then it's too low.

As for finding out what happens when the engine is running, that's easy. Just stick a voltmeter on the batteries when the engine, APU and any other charging source isn't charging the batteries, and note the voltage. Start the engine and if the voltage jumps to above 13 volts, then the engine's alternator is also charging the bank.

Three years isn't bad, tho. There are things you can do to increase that to 4 or 5, like making sure they're not being discharged too deeply, and using a desulfator (or routinely slapping a desulfation "equalizing" charge on them), like the PowerPulse. Those things are $50 a piece, I think, and one will work for up to three batteries. I have 4 batteries in my bank, so I have two of the PowerPulses, one for a pair of batteries. Getting three years now, just the addition of a PowerPulse (or however many you need) will get you four.

 

[layoutshooter]

I have the APU set for 12 volts. I have NOT checked it to see if it is right. I would like to see what a set of AGM's would do on my house bank. Bet it would do better than those Interstates do. I will have to look into that other stuff. I do have a charger at the house that runs a desulfate cycle. I use it on my boat batteries. I should hit the truck ones as well. I just always forget.

 

[Moot]

Here ya go: CCx15 Dual Pro Charger Cable Extension Kit

I ran across that recently when I was looking at the Dual Pro CRS1 Charge on the Run Charger, which is a battery isolator/separator.

Would replacing my Hellroaring isolator with this charger cure my FAS (fried alternator syndrome)? $149 is less than I paid for the Hellroaring 7 years ago. Would I need the CRS2 model to charge two batteries or would the CRS1 suffice?

I have been running a bigass Diehard Platinum AGM for a starting battery the past two years. Never had a problem with cold weather starting. I consider zero degrees to be cool and -25º is cold. My current house batteries are regular wet cell marine batteries from Costco. I wouldn't mind going back to 2 AGM deep cycles for the house thus having house and starting batteries all AGM.

Would this be a good setup matched with a Dual Pro CRS1 or CRS2 charger and tossing the Hellroaring? Does this charger connect directly to the alternator?

ps. I have another $350 Sears gift card burning a hole in my wallet.

 

[Turtle]

I probably went overboard on the AGMs available amps when it gets cold. Or rather, it was badly worded. CCA amps is a number for zero degrees. Whatever number is on the battery for CCA, you'll get that at zero degrees. The CA number is for 32 degrees. Everything else, like amp hours and reserve minutes is figured at 80 degrees F. The number of cranking amps at 80 degrees is considerably higher than at 32 or zero (and at 100 degrees it's even higher, but battery life is dramatically shorter). The difference between the cranking amps at 80 versus zero is a much greater difference with AGMs than with wet cells. The AGMs have less.

Since the Dual Pro CRS1 (and CRS2 and CRS3) also act as an isolator, separating the house bank from the cranking battery when then cranking battery isn't receiving a charge, yeah, you could replace the Hellroaring isolator with it.

You would only need a CRS1 that charges one battery bank, since that's all you have, one battery bank. Same as me. The multiple-bank models are mainly for boats that often have several battery banks in addition to the starting battery. The alternator handles the cranking battery, even if it's a bank of batteries as with a big or straight truck.

The CRS1 connects directly to the cranking battery's terminals, and then connects to the house bank, so it's in between the two, acting as an isolator. And just like an isolator, when it senses the cranking battery is being charged by the alternator, it complete the circuit and send charging current to the house bank. Of course, it's the same charging current that the cranking battery gets, which is why it's a good idea to have the cranking and house bank be the same battery type.

The CRS1 only has a 5 foot cable for the connection to the house bank, so you'll need an extension cable (from the link above or build your own).

If you have an AGM cranking battery, then you really should have an AGM bank. The bank and the cranking battery will both be charged properly and therefor will last longer (especially if you add a PowerPulse to the bank, and it wouldn't hurt to add one to the cranking battery, either).