If this is gong to be a Christian nation...

[layoutshooter]

Sorry to disappoint you, but yes it is a very complex issue.

The first thing we need to do to get it under control is stop all the chest thumping and name calling.

No I disagree. I have faith in the American people. I believe in their ability to overcome. Just turn us loose. I KNOW for a FACT about several jobs that WOULD have been created, 4 full time, year around jobs and 20-30 summer jobs that are NEVER going t be there. WHY? The government.

My friend WAS going to buy a couple of hundred acres with a mile of river frontage, near that casino out there near that Pilot in near I69 in MI. I was going to manage the place. Campsites, propane, skeet and trap ranges etc. Government regulations put the end to it. Options to purchase, let go. Plans that were already paid for, trashed. We had river walks designed. The ranges were designed and bids out for the equipment. ALL DONE. 100% due to the regulations of the EPA. We even had Ducks Unlimited in the picture, helping to make sure we did not mess up anything and could even enhance so things. That is way I am STILL in my truck. THANK YOU EPA.

ALL those power plants closing in MI, EPA. all those jobs and a the lose of generation capacity that is NOT being replaced. Electricity rates will rise as will. ALL THANKS TO THE EPA.

This list is endless. The government is the cause, not the solution and there is NOTHING the government will do to fix it. THEY are the problem.

 

[Ragman]

No I disagree. I have faith in the American people. I believe in their ability to overcome. Just turn us loose. I KNOW for a FACT about several jobs that WOULD have been created, 4 full time, year around jobs and 20-30 summer jobs that are NEVER going t be there. WHY? The government.

My friend WAS going to buy a couple of hundred acres with a mile of river frontage, near that casino out there near that Pilot in near I69 in MI. I was going to manage the place. Campsites, propane, skeet and trap ranges etc. Government regulations put the end to it. Options to purchase, let go. Plans that were already paid for, trashed. We had river walks designed. The ranges were designed and bids out for the equipment. ALL DONE. 100% due to the regulations of the EPA. We even had Ducks Unlimited in the picture, helping to make sure we did not mess up anything and could even enhance so things. That is way I am STILL in my truck. THANK YOU EPA.

ALL those power plants closing in MI, EPA. all those jobs and a the lose of generation capacity that is NOT being replaced. Electricity rates will rise as will. ALL THANKS TO THE EPA.

This list is endless. The government is the cause, not the solution and there is NOTHING the government will do to fix it. THEY are the problem.

Yes, the government is the problem. Nobody is disagreeing with you.

My issue is when this single father of 3 lost his job, due to no fault of his own, He needed a helping hand. Instead of saying - "sure, we will help" , He was told the reason he was out of work, was that he is lazy.

THE NAME CALLING MUST STOP!!!

Sorry for raising my voice again.

Rant over.

 

[layoutshooter]

Yes, the government is the problem. Nobody is disagreeing with you.

My issue is when this single father of 3 lost his job, due to no fault of his own, He needed a helping hand. Instead of saying - "sure, we will help" , He was told the reason he was out of work, was that he is lazy.

THE NAME CALLING MUST STOP!!!

Sorry for raising my voice again.

Rant over.

Has he looked into starting a window washing business? Growing demand makes it an interesting and relatively inexpensive business. Our population is aging, a trend that will continue for at least another 25-30 years. I was talking with a window washer at the Denny's in Monroe a couple of weeks ago. He has more work than he can handle. Same with many of the urban and suburban lawn care/snow removal people, although that is a more expensive business

Is your friend a Veteran? IF so, is he taking advantage of all the training programs out there? Maybe, instead of a handout, you could hire him to paint your house. Maybe some other's you know could as well. There is always a way.

I don't know anything about this guy, I do know there are ways, LOTS of ways, to win this. There used to be more until the feds killed them. LOTS of people have been in his shoes, all lived through it. Most came out better for the experience. So will he. Advise him to "DO it on his own". The less help he takes, the stronger he will become.

I suggest looking for homemade solutions.

 

[Ragman]

Has he looked into starting a window washing business? Growing demand makes it an interesting and relatively inexpensive business. Our population is aging, a trend that will continue for at least another 25-30 years. I was talking with a window washer at the Denny's in Monroe a couple of weeks ago. He has more work than he can handle. Same with many of the urban and suburban lawn care/snow removal people, although that is a more expensive business

Is your friend a Veteran? IF so, is he taking advantage of all the training programs out there? Maybe, instead of a handout, you could hire him to paint your house. Maybe some other's you know could as well. There is always a way.

I don't know anything about this guy, I do know there are ways, LOTS of ways, to win this. There used to be more until the feds killed them. LOTS of people have been in his shoes, all lived through it. Most came out better for the experience. So will he. Advise him to "DO it on his own". The less help he takes, the stronger he will become.

I suggest looking for homemade solutions.

The problem was resolved. This was back in 2008. He found work and all is well now.

He did everything right. It's just the name calling I object to. He was not being lazy.

 

[layoutshooter]

The problem was resolved. This was back in 2008. He found work and all is well now.

He did everything right. It's just the name calling I object to. He was not being lazy.

I am VERY happy that the problem is resolved and he is working again.

As to the name calling, as hard as this may sound, it's true, no one ever died from that. It's a hard, tough world, there is nothing new under the sun. Just deal with it and move on.

 

[cheri1122]

That is why many move income and assets out of the country. If you create a hostile environment, you likely will get hostile results.

I repeat: the tax rate has been much higher in the past, and so were wages [relative to minimum] and employers were maybe not generous with increases, but regular, at least. They did not indulge in the kind of 'creative accounting' that sheltered their income & assets from taxes, nor create new 'subsidiaries' and other layers to capture more profit, leaving less available for wages. [You have seen this firsthand, with carriers creating brokerages & logistics divisions to increase in house profits, and increasing rates charged, but drivers get no more than we did 10 years ago].
What has changed is the attitudes: those at the top deserve more money, those at the bottom [who actually do the necessary work] don't.
Yes, they praise the workers for their valued contributions, but they don't offer more money, do they? They offer 'explanations' about the global economy, regulations, yadda, yadda, yadda, [most of which have been discredited by reputable economists, BTW] but sorry, no more money left for the poor folks at the bottom of the food chain.
That's what I call a hostile environment: I work hard, do my job right, and haven't seen any increased money in years, and not likely to, either, no matter how hard I work. And I don't think returning to school to learn HVAC or plumbing is much of an option, ok? [Which is good, I'd probably be terrible at it, lol.]
BTW: what on earth makes you think "people are wanting skilled pay for an entry level position"? I've seen people wanting a COL raise for entry level positions, after they've worked at it for years, but is that unreasonable? It's just another example of the disrespect for the disadvantaged, that's very popular among some people - all of whom are more fortunate, of course.

 

[davekc]

I repeat: the tax rate has been much higher in the past, and so were wages [relative to minimum] and employers were maybe not generous with increases, but regular, at least. They did not indulge in the kind of 'creative accounting' that sheltered their income & assets from taxes, nor create new 'subsidiaries' and other layers to capture more profit, leaving less available for wages. [You have seen this firsthand, with carriers creating brokerages & logistics divisions to increase in house profits, and increasing rates charged, but drivers get no more than we did 10 years ago].
What has changed is the attitudes: those at the top deserve more money, those at the bottom [who actually do the necessary work] don't.
Yes, they praise the workers for their valued contributions, but they don't offer more money, do they? They offer 'explanations' about the global economy, regulations, yadda, yadda, yadda, [most of which have been discredited by reputable economists, BTW] but sorry, no more money left for the poor folks at the bottom of the food chain.
That's what I call a hostile environment: I work hard, do my job right, and haven't seen any increased money in years, and not likely to, either, no matter how hard I work. And I don't think returning to school to learn HVAC or plumbing is much of an option, ok? [Which is good, I'd probably be terrible at it, lol.]
BTW: what on earth makes you think "people are wanting skilled pay for an entry level position"? I've seen people wanting a COL raise for entry level positions, after they've worked at it for years, but is that unreasonable? It's just another example of the disrespect for the disadvantaged, that's very popular among some people - all of whom are more fortunate, of course.

When taxes were higher, you were not dealing with the global competition that you currently have. Regulations, mandates and the whole list of other items drives what you see now. Remember "global". Competitors overseas pay less tax as well as pay employees less.
Not every vocation is for everyone, but looks to be a better alternative verses living on the dole at others expense. That was my point when I hear "there aren't any jobs".
As for people at a entry level position wanting skilled labor pay, just look at the fast food people or Walmart with wanting 15 per hour. That is not the function of entry level positions.

 

[cheri1122]

Sorry, Dave, but I think 'global competition' is a well worn excuse for selfishness, not a valid reason for refusing to raise wages for a decade. Which is why the people are asking for so much: if the minimum wage had gone up along with the higher incomes, it'd be even higher by now. There is no justification for management to get raises & bonuses and shareholders to get increasing dividends, while those at the bottom get nothing. Except: because we can.

 

[Humble2drive]

There is no justification for management to get raises & bonuses and shareholders to get increasing dividends, while those at the bottom get nothing. . .

From a business management perspective there are many reasons for management bonuses as they are the leaders and the "bottom" workers are the followers.
I could list the reasons but that would not satisfy your displeasure.
In general, in a free market capitalist economy an employer merely needs to pay what a worker is willing to work for. Bottom line.

The 80/20 rule comes into effect here. 80 percent of the workers will show up, barely complete the job requirements and whine about their pay while 20 percent of the workers will work hard and work smart to get promoted into management and get the bonuses.

 

[layoutshooter]

"The 80/20 rule comes into effect here. 80 percent of the workers will show up, barely complete the job requirements and whine about their pay while 20 percent of the workers will work hard and work smart to get promoted into management and get the bonuses."

I agree with the above thought but I believe that the numbers are a bit different.

I believe it's a 20/60/20 mix. 20% of the workers come to work and kick butt. They are the ones who go the extra mile, work harder and better, They want to get ahead. These are the ones who do their best, whether or not they are in a position/job that they like. The ones who believe that if you accept a job/wage, it is your responsibility to do your best.

Then there is the 60%. They are there when they need to be, do the job well, but have little interest of moving ahead. They will often turn down promotions, happy in their position and not wanting additional responsibility.

The bottom 20% believe they are owed a wage for just being alive. Quality work means nothing and they often don't even show up. They are about as useful as navel lint. It's their work,or lack of it, that holds things back, lowers quality, slowing production.

 

[Humble2drive]

I agree with the above thought but I believe that the numbers are a bit different.

I believe it's a 20/60/20 mix.

That sounds pretty accurate. I will concur.

 

[davekc]

Sorry, Dave, but I think 'global competition' is a well worn excuse for selfishness, not a valid reason for refusing to raise wages for a decade. Which is why the people are asking for so much: if the minimum wage had gone up along with the higher incomes, it'd be even higher by now. There is no justification for management to get raises & bonuses and shareholders to get increasing dividends, while those at the bottom get nothing. Except: because we can.

One can call it a excuse, but results don't indicate that. Case in point because they are known situations. Take Solyndra. 500 billion taxpayer dollars to launch this disaster and still beat out by foreign competitors. And of course, Obama lost all the taxpayers money.
Here is one from today.
China billionaire eyes US market after snatching up taxpayer-backed Fisker | Fox News

Another foolish government disaster. These stories were unheard of 20 years ago. Now that global competition is on our doorstep daily. Just a reality. Cut all CEO's pay to zero and give it to the workers. Won't even make a dent. I am not defending CEO pay or Hollywood actors pay. You just don't have enough of them to make the impact you want. Not even close.

 

[WanderngFool]

You might want to correct your Solyndra numbers.

 

[layoutshooter]

Yeah, $500 million may be low. It really does not matter, the federal government has NO business in business and should not be taking borrowed money to invest is a shaky business.

 

[davekc]

You might want to correct your Solyndra numbers.

You are correct. It is 500 million. I got it confused with what Obama is going to waste this year.

 

[Humble2drive]

Cut all CEO's pay to zero and give it to the workers. Won't even make a dent.

I am not sure that you are correct. Did you actually crunch the numbers?

Number of CEOs 400,400
CEO Statistics | Statistic Brain

Average pay for the top 200 is $20.7 million for a total of $54 billion
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/b...pay-for-most-highly-paid-executives.html?_r=0

Include the pay for the remaining 400,200 CEOs in America that figure could easily reach 100 BILLION!!

A $100 billion infusion of cash into our economy through low wage workers could make a huge dent as the workers would actually spend the money on consumer goods vs parking it overseas and buying mansions.
They would also pay taxes on it.

I think your assumption may be incorrect.

 

[LDB]

Number of CEOs 400,400
CEO Statistics | Statistic Brain

Average pay for the top 200 is $20.7 million for a total of $54 billion
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/b...pay-for-most-highly-paid-executives.html?_r=0

I am not sure that you are correct. 200*$21M is $4.2B not $54B. According to the chart in your link 50% make less than $250,000. 77% make less than $500,000. 91% make no more than $1M. Yes, there are a few making insanely over inflated salaries, and to some people that might be all of them, but the same can be said of celebrities, sports players/coaches/agents and many others. I'm not sure it could add up to $100B a year though.

 

[cheri1122]

I don't want to "cut CEO's pay" - what I'd like is for them to recognize that their insane greed and 'entitled' outlook is both unpatriotic and detrimental to a civil society, and try to be better people than they are right now.
We need an educated middle class, and people need to feel that work is the way to a better life, and hard work = advancement, the way it used to be, and isn't much anymore.
The scammers and cheaters and immorally selfish people are winning, and the rest of the country is losing, and it breaks my heart. Makes me mad, too, lol.

 

[Humble2drive]

I am not sure that you are correct. 200*$21M is $4.2B not $54B.

Wrong! You are judging based on the old system. Under the new system since I showed my work I am not wrong and still get credit for my work.

 

[LDB]

Well... well... well I rounded so my numbers aren't exactly correct but I showed my work so that means I get credit and I'm right. The new system says so. Hmmmph.