Hi all. I've been working on Hino trucks almost exclusively for the last few years, and I'm pretty familiar with their ins and outs at this point. If anyone has a question, I'll be happy to answer it, if I know the answer.
Big Truck I work on Hino trucks. I'll answer any questions I know the answers to.
- Thread starter greasytshirt
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I found the "My Hino Disaster" thread. Ouch.
I have several thoughts about that whole debacle, but that would mean typing a small novel.
I have several thoughts about that whole debacle, but that would mean typing a small novel.
spongebox1
Expert Expediter
You my friend are going to be popular around here!! Thanks again for the help tonight!
Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app
Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app
Spongebox1 called me for a quick chat. Almost an hour passed. I think we covered 50 different topics, minimum. Half of them were about jackleg mechanics. These things require someone who doesn't throw wrenches across the shop, and they reward you for using a torque wrench vs an impact wrench. The Japanese designed this thing with the assumption that people that work on them will actually follow their directions. That's sometimes a problem, apparently.
Some common things:
The oil coolers leak. Three 'D' rings between cooler housing and block. Use right stuff Rtv, its tougher than the Hino stuff, and much less expensive.
All 08-10 trucks with a Dpf : the intake throttle valve on all six cylinder engines have to be modified. If the black intake hose between the air to air is removed, look inside the intake. There should be three 3mm holes drilled in the bottom of the throttle butterfly. If they aren't there, they need to be. New valves have to be modified too before installation. This is only on 08-10 dpf-only six cylinder engines. The 3mm holes are located 8mm from the lower bottom edge, one in the center and the other two 20 degrees away on either side. Doesn't have to be perfect. The reason for this is egr mung builds up around the edge, and the valve is sucked shut and held by both vacuum and goo. The magnetic servo on the side isn't strong enough to overcome it. This will make oil pull up into the engine, which will aggravate Dpf clogging, might cause stalling, and may cause a hard start. The motor makes the same noise as an old chevy 350 that is trying to start with the timing advanced too far.
Simple to find and fix, messes up stuff if its not done.
The oil coolers leak. Three 'D' rings between cooler housing and block. Use right stuff Rtv, its tougher than the Hino stuff, and much less expensive.
All 08-10 trucks with a Dpf : the intake throttle valve on all six cylinder engines have to be modified. If the black intake hose between the air to air is removed, look inside the intake. There should be three 3mm holes drilled in the bottom of the throttle butterfly. If they aren't there, they need to be. New valves have to be modified too before installation. This is only on 08-10 dpf-only six cylinder engines. The 3mm holes are located 8mm from the lower bottom edge, one in the center and the other two 20 degrees away on either side. Doesn't have to be perfect. The reason for this is egr mung builds up around the edge, and the valve is sucked shut and held by both vacuum and goo. The magnetic servo on the side isn't strong enough to overcome it. This will make oil pull up into the engine, which will aggravate Dpf clogging, might cause stalling, and may cause a hard start. The motor makes the same noise as an old chevy 350 that is trying to start with the timing advanced too far.
Simple to find and fix, messes up stuff if its not done.
There are current recalls on just about all trucks, 08-14, computer reprogramming, that help control soot, improve burner operation and reliability, burner ignitor performance, and address def freezing in cold climates. Some trucks will get new oil vapor separator lines, along with canister relocation that reduce moisture freezing and clogging in cold climates. Also positive battery cables on just about all of them. If the starter terminals break when doing this, you get a free new starter. All of this stuff is free and we're already seeing better reliability on all trucks with burners. If you're not totally familiar with the regeneration process by now, this is a good opportunity to corner a shop foreman and demand a step by step and dos and donts. They can hook up the computer, download a burner event log, and can convert that into a readable thing that will show you stuff like how many times a driver shut the truck off during a regeneration. You can only do that so many times in a row before it comes back to bite you. The new burner software greatly improves resistance to failure when things like ignored regens happen.
Fuel additives are not recommended, especially those used to remove water. Emulsified water will permeate fuel filters, leading to injector tip damage. The injectors are very precise and have very small tolerance, and when water is introduced to this environment, it explosively evaporates and can actually take metal with it. It's not unlike liner cavitation damage, although the mechanism is different.
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Fuel filter heaters are optional equipment, and they should be used to prevent fuel gelling. The pretreatment of fuel with antigel isn't recommended because many of these products have water remover (often alcohol) added to them.
If you change fuel filters and it doesn't seem to want to prime, don't pressurize the tank with compressed air. There's a risk of blowing the shaft seal out of the fuel pump. This will fill the crankcase with fuel and blow up the motor, if it ever starts. Just refill all the filters and start cranking the engine. It will self prime, but it may take several seconds.
This goes for any engine with this style of common rail pumps, like the cummins engines in Dodge trucks, and Isuzu.
This goes for any engine with this style of common rail pumps, like the cummins engines in Dodge trucks, and Isuzu.
spongebox1
Expert Expediter
Awesome info my friend
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Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app
You're welcome!
One might say I'm biased, but I think these things are put together relatively well. The trick is to identify and address the shortcomings before they become real problems. The dealers will have all the information that I have, but generally speaking most dealers are dealers of multiple brands, brands that are much more common and get more attention. Since most mechanics are a little bit transient by nature, what they learn does not always stay in the same building. I work at a place that specializes in Japanese medium duty trucks, primarily Hino and some Isuzu, so our collective knowledge on these things is pretty deep.
In any case, all of the conventional trucks from 05-10 are very similar, with similar issues. 08-10 got the dpf system, which ended the days of being able to run around with crappy injectors. 11-14 got dpf/scr systems, which was the thorn in everyone's side for a while, but a ton of attention has been paid toward making that system more reliable. It's doing very well now. General lack of maintinence and drivers that are unfamiliar with the system or ignore it's requests remain the #1 issue. If used properly, it works without incident. The 11-14 trucks also got a much bigger radiator, and that's helping many of the overheat problems. The older trucks radiators weren't undersized, they were just able to conceal how dirty they really were getting. The hino turbo thread has pics of a good example.
Good to see a tech speak out on what sometimes seem to be secret fixes. I especially like the comment of "follow directions". I can't tell you how many rocker adjuster studs on my Cat I've popped over torquing them just because the OEM's 22ft/lb doesn't seem like enough, not to mention I always worried the 3/4 drive torque wrench I was using isn't all that accurate at such a low torque. (BTW; just bought a 3/8 drive Craftsman at Sears for $40, a $39 discount).
Also liked the advice on the fuel additives. I used to run Howes religiously at the advice of someone, but have since stopped and injectors seemed to be better for it.
Just can't beat real life experiences.
Also liked the advice on the fuel additives. I used to run Howes religiously at the advice of someone, but have since stopped and injectors seemed to be better for it.
Just can't beat real life experiences.
spongebox1
Expert Expediter
Our new friend has great advise and is willing to help when others would walk away .. Ty sir!
Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app
Sent from my VS910 4G using EO Forums mobile app
Golden rule, I suppose.
The basic architecture of these engines has been around for a long, long time, and they're solid. I'll have to respect those that designed the thing and wrote the book. Now, for practical real world solutions, you have to fully immerse yourself in it for a while, and that's when you figure out all the quirks and working solutions that aren't in any book. Quite a few of the technical bullitens were put together from collaborations between individual mechanics and technical service managers, who worked to gether to pinpoint various problems. I like that level of troubelshooting.
I just thought of a question for you, my 05 268 has the Allison 2400 transmission, which if you look that transmission up, it says its a 5 speed, but the manual for the truck says its a 4 speed. I have seen someone say that the dealer can "unlock" the 5th gear, so my question is, that actually 5th gear or one of the lower gears that is "locked"?
I have an older sister. She knows how to drive a stick shift. That's pretty much where her automotive knowledge ends, though.
I think they are very good trucks. I'm not sure if they're even making large cabovers right now, if they are I haven't seen any. The little NPRs are hard to beat at what they do. They suffer from some of the same things that little Hino cabovers do. They also have their own quirks. For example, It's hard to bleed air out of the cooling system, so if someone refills the cooling system without burping it, it'll spike up in temp pretty quick. The placement of the EGR coolers on the newer ones make this worse, and the temperature differential of hot exhaust gas on one side and air pockets on the other makes them crack. You'd need a vacuum operated cooling system fill tool to make it easy. The oil coolers seem to leak oil into the coolant after several years of use. It's a hassle to get it out, because it's on the fuel pump side of the motor and every thing is in the way. The liners are no where near as easy to get in and out like on a Hino, and replacing the main bearings while the engine is in the truck is absolutely impossible. The block splits at the crank centerline, so the engine has to come out and go on a stand, and the block halves separated. It's kind of a pain in the rear.
On both old Hino and Isuzu (and Mitsubishi), after a while the crappy plastics in the dashboards start getting crunchy, and all the warning lights and sirens randomly stop working. Got a few stories on the old ones.
zorry
Veteran Expediter
I hauled Isuzu out of the ports, National City, Ca, Baltimore and Jacksonville. And of course, Janesville, Wi.
The small COE is assembled now in Charlotte, Mi.
I don't think the large COE is available, at least in the US.
We hauled the Hino's when they first arrived. Then they found cheaper alternatives. ( Swift).
Even hauled a few Isuzu conventionals. That's got to be a pretty rare sight nowadays.
The small COE is assembled now in Charlotte, Mi.
I don't think the large COE is available, at least in the US.
We hauled the Hino's when they first arrived. Then they found cheaper alternatives. ( Swift).
Even hauled a few Isuzu conventionals. That's got to be a pretty rare sight nowadays.
coalminer said:
That's a good question. I've actually heard that too, but it's always in passing, like an urban legend. In this case, we would not be able to do anything with it, as it's going to be a function of the Allison ecu. We can get in there with Allison software, but reprogramming lies in their hands. If you call an Allison shop with the serial number, they should be able to tell you exactly what it's got.
I can tell you that there's nothing in Hino software that can access AT function. My only option is to tell the engine ecu if it's a manual or automatic. We can look at the AISIN transmission in the new cabover trucks, but there's nothing to unlock on those.
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