I pledge....

greg334 · Sep 3, 2009

I pledge.... This video is making a big stink in the Mormon state.

I Pledge Video

Now keep in mind what some of these people say and who they are.

AND listen carefully to 3:54 to the end, especially what Demi Moore said.

Would you have your elementary school kids watch this?

Do you actually know the roots of this?

I pledge to end the grip of intellectual monopoly by Hollywood and the actors and actresses who do nothing for my country.

Tennesseahawk · Sep 3, 2009

HHUEHHHH!!!

edbrakos · Sep 3, 2009

I Pledge God

RLENT · Sep 3, 2009

I kinda like Penn Jillette's take on it (WARNING - STRONG LANGUAGE):

Uhhh ..... a servant ?

... at least some of them out there in La-La land are thinking .....

Tennesseahawk · Sep 4, 2009

Rlent... I saw that too. Hilarious! I like how he diffuses the "well you're an actor too" people at the beginning.

RLENT · Sep 4, 2009

Yeah .... it was way good stuff ...... particularly since it came from one of their own .... and it's not as though Penn is a right-winger by any stretch of the imagination ....

He has some rather interesting takes on things:

"I think there's been a forgetting that bravery involves risk and that freedom is worth it. I think right now there is an atmosphere of fear that is making everyone crazy. I would rather risk my personal safety than feel scared all the time."

The above is from an interview in Ask Men which was done back a few years ago and goes to a recent thread on here about the potential liabilities of arguing with people you don't know - because they could be complete psychos.

I don't dispute the merits of the position put forward originally in that thread - in fact, I know it to be true - in at least a couple of cases here on EO specifically (in terms having fairly ugly criminal backgrounds)

However there are things which are far more valuable than one's own immediate life - stuff like duty, honor, fidelity, personal integrity - these are things which no one can ever take away from another - ever - one has to give them up.

I can't hardly imagine what life would be like if one had to live their life in fear of retaliation for speaking out, and saying what one believes to be true - despite however unpopular that might be.

The article is an interesting read:

Penn Jillette: Telling it like it is, with Teller

Tennesseahawk · Sep 4, 2009

Actually, Penn is a conservative.

greg334 · Sep 4, 2009

T-hawk, he is a libertarian.

Tennesseahawk · Sep 4, 2009

greg334 said:
T-hawk, he is a libertarian.

As far as I'm concerned, a libertarian is just another form of conservative. Both believe in the Constitution.

Don't mince words with me, mister!

RLENT · Sep 5, 2009

Actually, I would say you're both right ...... at least in a sense ...... politics, philosophy ...... are complex subjects .....

One could say that, at this place and point in time, being a libertarian (small L) is a conservative stance in light of where we are now.

Often it is difficult to pin someone down into a single "ism" ..... because what they believe and hold to be true is a blend of more than one (classical liberalism, liberal conservatism, classical republicanism, libertarian conservatism, etc.) .... even if they themselves don't know it.

But I would stand by my statement: Penn Jillette is not a right-winger by any stretch.

You can also take that to mean that I don't believe that being a right-winger - or some things that might be characterized as right-wing - are necessarily conservative.

Unfortunately things such as political beliefs and philosophy really don't lend themselves well to being defined by single words or synonyms ..... it's complex - as I'm sure both of you well know.

Moot · Sep 5, 2009

I Pledge:

To vote in 2010 for candidates (public servants) at the local, state and national levels that serve and represent me.

layoutshooter · Sep 5, 2009

Moot said:
I Pledge:

To vote in 2010 for candidates (public servants) at the local, state and national levels that serve and represent me.

GOOD LUCK!! I will have trouble doing that since NO ONE running will represent me. I plan on just voting out all imcumbents, that is at least a start.

Tennesseahawk · Sep 5, 2009

RLENT said:
Actually, I would say you're both right ...... at least in a sense ...... politics, philosophy ...... are complex subjects .....

One could say that, at this place and point in time, being a libertarian (small L) is a conservative stance in light of where we are now.

Often it is difficult to pin someone down into a single "ism" ..... because what they believe and hold to be true is a blend of more than one (classical liberalism, liberal conservatism, classical republicanism, libertarian conservatism, etc.) .... even if they themselves don't know it.

But I would stand by my statement: Penn Jillette is not a right-winger by any stretch.

You can also take that to mean that I don't believe that being a right-winger - or some things that might be characterized as right-wing - are necessarily conservative.

Unfortunately things such as political beliefs and philosophy really don't lend themselves well to being defined by single words or synonyms ..... it's complex - as I'm sure both of you well know.

Tell us what you believe right winger philosophy is, if not conservative.

greg334 · Sep 5, 2009

T-Hawk,

There are big differences between a conservative and a libertarian.

The problem with trying to limp them together is that they actually a lot more than just believing in the constitution and it further distorts the problem with any unified fight with the left.

Most conservatives don't really want to give up the control of things, look at the right leaning religious end of the movement and tell me where you see smaller government... etc.. They want to end things through the federal government, like same sex marriage and abortion but that's not being a libertarian.

The bigger problem has been the republicans are fractured in such a way that they have no direction and don't really know what they are. They represent conservatism to a point but in many ways so does some parts of the democratic party. They need to clean house, get a unified message and stop messing around thinking that people like Joe Scarborough will make a good candidates.

Libertarians and classic liberals take a different approach to the problems and don't want that control at all. We want to see the use of the constitution as it was intended, not telling the states what to do or have a marriage amendment, more important things are needed.

RLENT · Sep 6, 2009

Tennesseahawk said:
Tell us what you believe right winger philosophy is, if not conservative.

Thawk,

I will ..... once I have some sleep

.... Greg is touching on it a bit ..... sometimes different "ism's" will agree on certain things (like say the Constitution) ..... but while they agree, they are coming at things from much different places.

It goes back to what I said earlier - sometimes people believe they are a this or a that ..... when in actual fact they might not be ..... or might be a blend of both (or even more)

aristotle · Sep 6, 2009

The libertarian is a kindred spirit to the conservative in many ways. Libertarians want maximum personal freedom and minimum government involvement in our daily lives. There is alot of overlap between the two philosophies. Where the conservative has a general mistrust of government, the conservative will attempt to use the government to advance or thwart certain causes. The libertarian takes a much stronger laissez-faire attitude.

greg334 · Sep 6, 2009

aristotle said:
Where the conservative has a general mistrust of government, the conservative will attempt to use the government to advance or thwart certain causes.

I think it is the libertarian who mistrusts the government, not the conservative. In general conservative in power have always seemed to compromised too much, take a look at how the republicans rant he congress from 94 to 06, much of the work they did was compromised and if they used their head then we would have more control over the issues of economics.

aristotle · Sep 6, 2009

greg334 said:
I think it is the libertarian who mistrusts the government, not the conservative. In general conservative in power have always seemed to compromised too much, take a look at how the republicans rant he congress from 94 to 06, much of the work they did was compromised and if they used their head then we would have more control over the issues of economics.

Conservatives mistrust government. The libertarian mistrusts government even more.

greg334 · Sep 6, 2009

aristotle said:
Conservatives mistrust government. The libertarian mistrusts government even more.

OK there I agree with that 100%.....

OntarioVanMan · Sep 7, 2009

aristotle said:
Conservatives mistrust government. The libertarian mistrusts government even more.

And this leads me to my next thoughts(not opinion)...
Not being American I can dare to think outside the American box.

Have you ever thought (which is unlikely) That it is all wrong? Right from the git go? While the Constitution is a masterpiece creation? An idealogy that has never worked from it's inception....Just in human nature you have leaders and power which naturally create greed...

Next, as long as there is classism there can never be true equality.

The capitalists are to King as workers are to surfs or to serve the mighty capitalists.

There are the haves and the have nots...

Is it such a coincidence that the Constitution has never been more threatened since the early 1900's since the start of the industrial revolution....That power and greed of the capitalists reared its ugly head.

Power and control is an inherent quality of the human genere...

Take this industry...a fleet owner(capitalist, opportunist) owns a fleet of trucks....with that comes responsibilities because he now has someone elses life in their hands by virtue they depend on the owner to maintain the truck for their livelihood. The owner now controls to a certain degree that persons life...

I am not knocking the capitalist at all they are after all the leaders, go-getters that work hard to build ...an "empire"?
Aww the mighty statement from a fleet owner to his pals..
" I have 10 drivers UNDER me"

The Constitution is a Mighty piece of work maybe a piece that is ahead of its time to this day..

Are humans ready for it yet? Were they ready for it? By the look of things I'd say no....

I am only thinking out loud,,Please don't shoot the messenger...just tossing this out for debate.