I need massive feedback from long-time cargo van d

[blizzard2014]

I gave the "cargo-van gig a shot in July of last year. I went to work for a small fleet owner who has three cargo vans leased on with pahther II transportation. The overall experience was good "I have absolutely nothing negative to write about panther as a company or its dispatchers and recruiters!" But, I did go belly up in a matter of weeks due to a combination of slow freight and the fuel that I had to pay for via the 60/40 split between myself and the owner of the van. The owner of the van is a good guy too, he just couldn't help me stay busy! Well, to make a long story short, I returned home and have been saving up money to purchase a "B-unit." I'm currently looking for a company to lease on with "perhaps a smaller company. Does anyone with a solid background in the expediting industry know if bolt express is a decent carrier to run for, as far as rate per mile, and average miles per week. I understand that "cargo van" drivers are very limited in the expediting game; but i'm not looking to get rich here. I need a low cost way to get back into the expediting business and I want to control my own destiny by being my own boss. My goal is to average 1500 bucks a week gross, which would be the equivalent of 6 thousand dollars a month! I hope to average 60 thousand a year gross, even if it has to be averaged out over an 11 month period. I'm a hard and persistant worker, and I do "as I did last year" plan work for 10 or 11 months straight through. I'm serious! I'm a single guy with no family obligations, no mortgage payments, and absolutely no ties to the area from which I will be based. I can get by with a few weekend getaways at motel six from time to time, as freight can be iffy over the weekend. After all, companies do love their "virtual slaves!" So, i'm only going to take vacation time during the slowest month/months of the year. Does my goal of 60 thousand dollars a year gross seem to be too high? Can any of you experienced folks clue me in as to how much your are making with your respective companies and what kind of future outlook you invision for "cargo-van" drivers? I would love to hear comments and or anecdotes from as may drivers as possible! Can anyone also let me know how many miles they are running in a "cube van" Ford E450? Well, thanks for taking the time to read my long-winded post, any comments and or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,

Jerry!

 

[Turtle]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Sounds good. $1500 is a very doable goal, provided you are willing to stay out several months at a time. Some weeks you will do $2500, some you will do $800, but over time you should be able to average out to your goal.

Keep in mind how and why you went belly up before, and consider that now you will have the added costs of repair and maintenance, and a van payment. After your initial costs of escrow, lettering and other associated sign-on fees and expenses, which can be substantial, you're going to want to make sure that you have $1500 minimum in the bank before you accept your first load. Otherwise you're starting out of the gate with a long uphill run, and if you have a bad week within the first three, you'll roll right back down to the starting gate.

Keep your pay separate. Pay yourself for each load, say $.30 or $.32 per mile or something. Whatever is it, stick to it, no exceptions. Period. If you're stealing money from the van, you'll never know if the van is making any money.

I'm on with Panther at $.77 per mile. I pay myself $.32 per mile, plus all accessorials except deadhead and empty move pay, and everything else goes to the truck. Truck pays the truck payment, insurance, fuel, tolls, everything.

Each time I deposit my pay into my checking account, I immediately transfer 25% of it to another account in order to park money for taxes.

If you fail to pay yourself a set amount per load, no more no less, and if you fail to separate out tax money each time you are paid, you will, absolutely, go belly up as an owner/operator.

After a while, a year or whatever, if you have a sizable enough of a nest egg built up in the truck account, you can pay yourself an additional chunk of money, based on whatever you want it to be. It's your truck. But, you'll want to keep enough money in that account to cover at least 3 months of living expenses, or a transmission or engine overhaul, probably both. Enough to live on and to pay for any unexpected major repairs, in other words. Otherwise, you'll go belly up.

Do not try to live on credit cards, even for major repairs, unless, without exception, you can pay off the cards every month. I mean it. The only debt you want out here is the truck payment, and even for that the sooner you can get rid of that the sooner you will start making some decent money. A truck will never really make you any money until it's paid off.

The theme here is make sure you have enough liquid operating capital to work with. Too many van drivers see this as a low cost way of getting into the business, and then they try to get into in on the cheap. As an owner/operator, if you are living out here load advance to load advance, your days are severely numbered in this business.

 

[fastman_1]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Yes it can be done, But its hard Work, I agree with running your Business on Cash Not Credit,The $1500 a week won't happen every week,My best week since 97 I made $2000.I'm happy with a Grand a week. The E-450 I've seen a few out there But the must have found a Ninch That makes use of them, Otherwise we all would have one,







































Owner/Operator since 1979
Expediter since 1997
B Unit Semi Retired
Somedays are Diamonds and Somedays are Stones
Home is Wherever you Park.
The Price of Freedom is Written on the Wall.

 

[terryandrene]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Another excellent 2 point post from TURTLE. His simple succinct comments told it like it is and, from my observations, BLIZZARD'S gross earnings goal is achievable. I can't vouch for the cubed E-450 as the optimum B unit for Blizzard's net earnings because I don't know the cost to put one together. I suspect you'll have considerably more purchase/operating/maintenance expense than a traditional van; but, you'll have more personal space for that added expense.

Bolt is one of the smaller expetite carriers, but appears to be growing at a pace that is comfortable for the O/O's. We don't hear many negative or positive things about Bolt and that just might be because their drivers are too busy to post here. My best addvice here is that you get a commitment from Bolt, or your other carrier of choice, before you buy any vehicle.

 

[TJ959]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

I know of one company that seems to like the E450 cube vans but if you don't like it there you'll have a hard time moving on to somewhere else. The van business seems to be very tight now for the last year and a half but the money you're looking for should be reasonable with the right company. Remember, the competition for loads in the van sized trucks is very tough. I would go for any small advantage I could get. My choice would be a cutaway or a Sprinter so that I can haul outsized stuff and get a few more loads that way. There are several of the larger companies that make no distinction between vans and treat them all the same. They would be my choice if I had a regular van. ( Tri State, Fedex CC, Panther ETC) The smaller companies will give you some advantage in a larger van. I own a Sprinter and I really like it but I think the cutaway may be the better choice.

 

[greg334]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

E450 cube = gvw ~< 10,001 = LOGS = limited hours = limited revenue

 

[buckeyewildman]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

regarding your question about bolt express i have been with them going on 3 years i grossed over 62000.00 last year so it is doable i am happy for the most part like any company they have there ups and downs bad points good points etc:: but they have worked for me although i am out of commision for a few days thats what happens when van meets ice,wind and concrete median:+ }>

 

[blizzard2014]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Thanks for all of the info turtle! Your post was very professional and each point you touched on was presented in separate paragaphs. It's nice to see that we break the mold of societies "perception" that commercial drivers are uneducated. But, there are many forms of education out there; I personally have a PhD from the prestigious school of "hard knox!" It's taken me a long time to earn this degree, lol!!

Well, any how, your information has been very helpful to me. I thnik you have a great business model for owner operators. I use a similar principle in the way that I handle my finances. Basically, I shove every dime I earn into the bank! I only take out exactly what I need to operate the truck. Ie, fuel, tolls, and food. So, in essence, I will probably save up enough money to cover an entire engine overhaul, three months of truck payments, and enough to lay up in a hotelif the truck needs to go into the shop for an extended period of time. In addition to this, I will start a separate account that I will use for the sole purpose of purchasing fuel and making van payments. I figure i'll only need about 900 a month for my toyata payment, insurance, minimum credit card payments, my cell phone bill, and food while i'm out on the road.

Thus, the rest of the money that I earn, for at least the entire first year is going to go right into the bank. This will help me prepare for any "emergencies" that may arise throughout the course of the first year. I'm very disciplined, so this will not be very hard for me to do. After the duration of the first work year, I will go over my expenses and figure out exactly how much I will remove from the account. At that time, i'll make a decision regarding how much money i'll keep for myself, or perhaps even use the money that i've saved up to pay off the balance on my cargo van.As you stated previously, the sooner I can get that payment out of the way, the sooner I can start making real money. I have spoken to a lot of drivers, and they all tell me that it's much easier once the truck is paid off.

Well, the van i'm looking at is a used ford E350 with 100k miles on it. I think it's the ideal truck for me at this point in time. The mileage is not going to be that much of a problem, as I plan on taking good care of it for at least five years. I'll even rebuild the engine and transmission if necessary! My end goal is to be payment free! With the truck payment out of the way, I'm going to continue to make payments "in the same amount" to myself, so that I can save up enough money to out-right buy the next van and continue to operate payment free. I'm sorry for talking your ears off again, but being methodical is very important to me.

Any how, thanks for all of your advice. I really appreciate the help that you guys have given me. That includes all of the drivers who responded to my question! I'll be looking forward to seeing you guys once I get back out on the road...

 

[blizzard2014]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Sorry for the typos, i'm not a very proficient typer. I make the reference to commercial drivers because I still remember what it felt like to drive for Schneider National and MS carriers. They seem to think that comercial drivers are just glorified steering wheel holders.

Any how, you tell me the fundamentals of how bolt express does business. I'm just curious about their method of operation. Because i've had some pretty hairy situation when I worked with panther a while back. Stuff like pulling a thousand miles almost straight through in less than a 24 hour period. I understand, that you need to run with the loads when you get them, even if it's physically demanding. Well, at least that's how I felt when I did a thousand miles in one day. My feeling was, take it now and endure, because the next load might not be as good.

J.

 

[Jefferson3000]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Blizzard,

I currently own an E450 cube. 158"WB with 14ft box. I run local/regional hotshot type delivery. A 450 will definitely allow you much more weight capacity, but you will have to log with a 450. Also, it is a heavier chassis. More weight means more fuel to get it out of the gate, even on a diesel. You had better set your sites higher than a "B" rate if you want to run one of those. I definitely agree that you should talk with a recruiter first and see if any company is ready to accept that type of truck, or any van for that matter.

Driver for 15 years
O/O for 13 years
OOIDA #829119

Drive Safe!

Jeff

 

[Moot]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Blizz:

You may want to sell the Toyota or pay it off before trying to pay off the van loan. A portion of the interest on the van load is tax deductable as a business expense. Not so for the Toyota.

Jeff made some good points about an E-450. You would certainly need more than the standard "B" rate to be profitable.

 

[kangar0085]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Blizz if you plan on staying out there for a long period of time dont buy used equipment.

 

[LDB]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

>i'll only need about 900 a month for my toyata payment,
>insurance, minimum credit card payments, my cell phone bill,
>and food while i'm out on the road.
>

I don't run any vans so I haven't commented previously although I do think your plan and goals sound reachable. That is directed specifically to you.

In what follows, my use of the pronoun you is generic and applies to anyone. If you are just paying the minimums, or any amount less than the full balance, on credit cards you have multiple problems. To determine how many, count how many credit cards you are making payments on. You should become a kamikaze where the cards are concerned and wipe them out as quickly as possible. Follow the Dave Ramsey system. Pay minimums except for the smallest balance card and put every penny you can pinch toward it. When it's gone, move to the next smallest and repeat the process. The interest rate on the unpaid portion is likely in the 2x% range. Get them all paid off and don't use them unless you keep just one to use for pay at the pump etc. and then pay it off every month. Then you'll truly see your bank account grow rapidly because you won't be paying outrageous interest charges.

Best of luck.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Dreamer]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

It's easy to say don't buy used equipment, but let's remember, not everyone can, or wants to have a note on new equipment starting out.

Even with a van, a new van can be a big investment for a newbie starting out. In this instance, it could be more advisable to get a used van in good condition, have it checked out thoroughly by a mechanic you trust, and plan on running it for a couple years. By that time you should have a used van paid off, and some money in the bank. Then you can decide whether you want to order that new van, or change to a truck. With luck, and good maintenance, that current van might even be good for another year or two.


Dreamer
Forums Administrator


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"Good will, like a good name, is achieved by many actions and lost by one."


Zig Ziglar

 

[kangar0085]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

A 100 thousand mile gas engine is no good...I doubt anyone can debate that here but a diesel thats a different story.

 

[highway star]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

A hundred thousand on a gas engine isn't necessarily bad. I know of several that have gone close to, and even above, the million mark. Of course, it depends on how well it's been taken care of. I see nothing wrong with starting with a used unit.

 

[Dreamer]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Kangar0085,
I have to disagree with you there. On a regular vehicle, 100,000 is a lot of miles. But, if a van has been used as Expedite, and well maintained, 100,000 is simply less than 2 years worth of miles. My last van, a Ford E350, had right at 300,000 and was running strong. I can attest, thru personal experience to the longevity of a well maintained Triton V8. With proper maintenance, they will run for years, and will idle over night, night after night, with no problem!!

I'm betting Terry O'Connell's Chevy has over 300,000!


Dreamer
Forums Administrator


--------------


"Good will, like a good name, is achieved by many actions and lost by one."


Zig Ziglar

 

[terryandrene]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Terry O'Connell's 2006 Chevy 3500 has been driven 71,000 miles since May 2006. His last 2000 Chevy 3500 van was sold at 557,000 miles to another expediter who now has well over 600,000 miles on the original 5.7l engine.

 

[Turtle]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

I bought a brand new 1987 Dodge Caravan Soccer Mommy Van that lasted 18 years, until 2005, when I slammed into an elk. You know the story, late at night on a narrow two lane road, through the woods by Kentucky Lake, in December, up the little hill as it curves to the right, crest the hill and BAM!, there 'tis. If it wasn't for that elk I'd still have that van. A gasser, original engine, original transmission. The day it died the odometer read 630,018. <sniffle, sniffle>

My first expediter van was an E-350, paid $4000 cash for it. It was a gasser that had 204,000 miles on it when I got it. First thing I did was hand it over to my mechanic and had him replace any and everything that came close to needing it. All pumps, filters, belts, hoses, brakes, u-joints, tie-rods, bearings, you name it. About $2500 worth of it. When I sold that van it had 380,000 miles on it and it is still going strong today. I paid cash for my second E-350, another used gasser, did the same routines, and it had 400,000 on it when I got rid of it.

Running without van payments allowed me to put down almost 20 grand on this Sprinter, having to finance only $10,000 on it, which will be paid off rather quickly. I was preparing for a sizable note, because I was in the process of ordering a Sprinter with all the bells and whistles that I wanted. Was looking at $42,000. Then this killer deal opened up on a used one, a van that had been sitting in someone's driveway for a year, with 4100 miles on it. Still had the new car smell. All he wanted for it was what he still owed the bank, which was $30,000. For that kind of a discount I'll give up a bell here and a whistle there.

For someone just starting out in this business, unless they truly understand what they are getting themselves into, I can't say that I'd recommend buying a new van. Better off to make the costly mistakes on something that doesn't cost very much. Get a used one, pay cash for it if you can. The more miles you can put on it after it's paid for, the more money you can put down on the next van. If you finance a $6000 van, regardless of how long it's financed for, pay it off in a year. That's $600 a month. Piece of cake. The next year you'll have saved $6000 to pay cash for another one, or put down on a better one. Drive it even longer and you've got that much more to work with, and you'll have a much better idea of how you want to outfit your next van, too.

Whether you're in a big truck, straight truck or a van, the key to this business is all about watching your pennies. In a personal vehicle, the difference between $2.17 gas and $2.13 gas is insignificant, not worth 2 seconds of thought over. Fill up the tank with 25 gallons of gas and that's a whopping $1.00 difference. Big hairy deal. Fill up once a week and it's still just a big hairy deal.

However, in a cargo van where you fill up 3, 4, 5 times a week, and absolutely in a larger truck where you fill up with 200-300 gallon tanks, even a single penny's difference in price becomes a significant factor in your bottom line profits, especially when you start multiplying that out over the course of a year. In a van where you use 100 gallons a week, that's $200 over the year. How many oil changes would that get you?

And if you can drive smarter, drive a little slower, idle less, and can squeeze just one more mile per gallon out of your van, which seems insignificant, but that's 100 miles for every 100 gallons you put into the tank each week. If you get 20 MPG that's 5 gallons of fuel a week, times 50 or so weeks. 250 gallons. How much does a gallon of fuel cost?

Watch your pennies. They add up quickly. With that in mind... interest on credit cards, bank notes? Puhleeze.

 

[Dreamer]

RE: I need massive feedback from long-time cargo v

Now there's two testimonies to what good maintenance will get ya!


I like the diesel's too, but ya can't sell short a well maintained gasoline engine.

Like you said Turtle, drive em for a couple years, see if you wanna trade up, or buy another. Money in the bank is better than money TO the bank!






Dreamer
Forums Administrator


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"Good will, like a good name, is achieved by many actions and lost by one."


Zig Ziglar