I don´t care.

[louixo]

WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS?

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001? Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they? And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.Where does this egotist get off, thinking the world should be run according to him, and he and his henchman should make the rules. I hope he goes the same way as Hitler.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia. You want respect..first you give respect.


I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for
hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling, slashed throat.


I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.



I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.


I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First
Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.


I'll care when judges stop ordering my government to release photos of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, which are sure to set off the Islamic extremists just as Newsweek's lies did a few weeks ago.



In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information. Know this: I don't care.



When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident. Rest assured that I don't care.



When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.



When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.



And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and -- you guessed it -- I don't care!"

 

[LDB]

I couldn't have said it better and I don't care either. Anyone who has a problem with any of the things you said is flawed.

Leo Bricker
OOIDA 677319
truck 4958
73's K5LDB
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[TJ959]

Not exactly politically correct guys.. Shame on you. Oh by the way, Idon't care either.....Good post.. It's refreshing to hear a practical instead of a political point of view.

 

[hdl]

> I'll care when the American media stops pretending that
>their First
> Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international
>law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of
>Rights.

You know, if Republican leaning voters would ever pull their heads out of the sand they might see that those they elect also believe that international law takes precedent over the US Constitution. For people like Bush and Republican party committee chairmen the US Constitution might as well be toilet paper.

Yes, I know thats not what passes from their lips in public, but it can be seen from their legislation and what they DON'T say.

How many of you read the recent Henry Hyde United Nations Reform legislation ? Those Republicans tell you exactly where their allegiance goes in that bill. Hey, why read the bill when the media will willingly lead you to believe it must be good because them Republican senaters will pretend to cut money if they don't 'reform'. Has it occured to anyone that the reform could be worse than the current situation?

The funny thing about Republican voters is that they actually believe the media doesn't also lie for the Republican party and help protect them from their own constituents.

The FBI, along with their informants, were intimately involved in the 1993 WTC truck bombing. This is PUBLIC RECORD. And of course there were the conveniently usual "mistakes" made that conveniently gave the FBI an out just days before the bombing took place. Funny how "mistakes" can make for Explosive promotion opportunities in government.

Republican voters are supposed to be better educated then Democrat voters. That is what the surveys show. So how is it that these same people keep falling for the same old line about mistakes and incompetence (even when these people get promotions after the fact)?

The answer to that has two parts. One is a lack of education regarding internationalism and its goals. The second being that serious thought and investigation would lead to their world views being crushed. Most Republican voters are as lazy as any welfare recipient when it comes to studying UN documents and are thus incapable of comprehending the true nature of the Republican party, the federal government in general, or how the media comes into play in implementing a global agenda.

That being said it is highly unlikely that rank-and-file Republican voters can swallow the idea that those they support, especially at the highest levels of government, are in fact their mortal enemies and that they wouldn't hesitate to kill Americans citizens in order to achieve domestic and global goals.

You might believe Condi Rice when she said they just couldn't envision airliners being used as missles. I would want to know what she knew about the drills taking place on the morning of 9-11 that involved hijacked aircraft flying into buildings that just happened to also be the SAME EXACT TARGETS of the alleged real hijackers. And these drills just happened to occur at the exact same time as the alleged actual hijackings. This is all public knowlege, even if the media CHOOSES not to widely report it. Drills such as these would be a nice way to cover your tracks.

I would want to know why heat from the fires was to blame for the buidings (1 and 2) coming down when there are photos of people standing in the very holes made by the aircraft. Let me guess, humans can withstand more heat than steal.

Why is the media compartmentalizing information regarding 9-11? Why was it reported locally (on TV in NYC), but not nationally, that the owner of building 7(and other WTC buildings) made the decision to PULL the building on the afternoon of 9-11? To "pull" is a demolition term. Explosives, not fire, brought building #7 down. Larry Silverstein, owner of the WTC buidings, made a boo boo on TV. Luckily the mainstream kept it local and quiet. Perhaps this little boo boo by Silverstein explains why such a high percentage of New Yorkers believe Uncle Sam isn't telling the whole truth.

When were the explosives placed in #7? It couldn't have been after the aircraft strikes. Thats something that takes days and weeks to do.
(Building 7 was not hit by aircraft)

I would also ask about the probabilities of two very tall buildings coming down in a perfectly symmetrical fashion (as though done by explosive experts)after having been hit at different points and the resulting fuel fed heat not being able to melt steal at the same rate at different points.

I would also ask: Would the US government ever anticipate and use the blow back from foreign ops for domestic purposes?

And what about the picture of the jet engine compressor blades shown on the ground at the Pentagon? The one shown would be knee high at the most. Perhaps, given that the compressor blades in a Boeing 757 are about as tall as the average man at the very least, some intel officer didn't do a very good job of salting the target area. Then there is the question about FBI agents confiscating video footage from local busnisses that also covered the area in which the Pentagon was hit. Funny how that very same thing occured in OKC. Imagine that.

Most people, if they would stop for a moment and do a scan of their brain cells, might recall that jet engines on large airliners are very, very big. So are the landing gear, they are nearly indestructible. You can CLEALY make them out at crash sites. Yet we are to believe that the wings, engines, and landing gear got together, decided to follow the example of NFL jocks and take steroids, refused to be ripped off the aircraft and followed the Boeing 757 into the building never to be seen again. And amazingly enough there is no hole large enough for the engines, wings and landing gear to fit through. Well, I suppose the steroids had the same effect on the plane as they do on a man's testicals.

And what about the "put" options done with American and United Airlines. Options way out of line with normal activities yet none were bought/exercised with other airlines. A big surge in "put" options in the five days prior and for the two airlines involved.
While not a financial expert I do know that put options are done when you are essentially betting that a stock will go DOWN.

If you believe that FOUR hijacked airliners can rule the skys of the eastern half of this nation for one hour and fifteen minutes without the aid of highly placed government folks, then I have some moon rocks I picked up the other day for sell.

PS
If your reply contains "democrat" or "liberal" that means you had a kneejerk emotional reaction similar to what could be expected by a democrat or liberal.
















:'(

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Have you been reading Jeff Rense?

 

[hdl]

>Have you been reading Jeff Rense?

The name rings a bell but I don't recall reading any of his work.

Does he have a web site?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

yes... www.rense.com
He's farther out there than Art Bell. While some of the things he says make some sense, he makes a conspiracy out of EVERYTHING. So I can't trust a thing he says.

 

[hdl]

>yes... www.rense.com
>He's farther out there than Art Bell. While some of the
>things he says make some sense, he makes a conspiracy out of
>EVERYTHING. So I can't trust a thing he says.

Well, when you delve deep into the world of government and power the old saying about truth being stranger than fiction is so, so true.

And when you make that dive you have to pretty much have to give up on having a 'life'. So you have to do a GREAT deal of reading in order to start finding fact from fiction.

I checked his site out briefly. There was some good stuff. Articles by Charley Reese are always good. I don't like the heavy emphasis on Zionism and secular humanist Jews though. Since the media won't cover those issues accurately you will just be labeled a neo-nazi. When you have five Israelies arrested in New Jersey, two of which are known intelligence agents, and they are filming the WTC attack and having a good old time dancing on their van, and it's not widely reported you know these folks have some pull. Besides, Hillary Clinton learned her secular humanist/communist views from her Methodist preacher. And even though I was raised Catholic I recognize that many Catholic organizations also serve as communist front groups.This is especially true in south America where liberation theology is strong.

A better site for 9-11 research is Alex Jones' web site
PrisonPlanet.com Also a great many good links from that site.

His site has some good documentaries that cover the evidence of government foreknowledge and active involvement very well. Since the media does compartmentalize info geographically someone has to capture that info, put it together and make it available to a larger audience, Alex does a pretty good job of it.

In my opinion the cumulutive circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming that a first year law student could easily kick the government's butt.

"...he makes a conspiracy out of EVERYTHING. So I can't trust a thing he says."

This is why reading as much as you can is very important. Only that way can you start to decipher whether there are enough _facts_ to support a conspiracy. There are people out there whose sole job is to plant disinformation in order to make their enemies look bad.

One of the biggest problems we have in this nation is that people do not read things that are important to maintaining this nation's Constitution and liberties. That is why I previously said that Republican voters are just as lazy as some welfare recipients when it comes to reading UN documents, which you MUST read in order to have a grasp of whats happening domestically in this nation.

If I hadn't read a great deal of UN material I wouldn't have known that Bush was lying through his teeth when he said he would appoint a strict constructionist to the Supreme Court. His worthless father, while vice-president, co-founded the International Democratic Union (IDU)along with Thather and Chirac. This was to be the center-right global government group (those who support global government have their factions too). The IDU advocates following the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. An individual who reads what they should be reading would know that anyone who supports that Declaration could not possibly support the US Constitution. It's an ideological impossibility.

An example of why study is important: Recently the Texas Monthly magazine listed the top ten best and worst in the Texas legislature.
One legislator, a Republican, identified in the ten worst was attacked because he was attacking the International Baccalaureate program which is being introduced in Texas schools. This program is generally directed at "gifted" students. The magazine made some snide comments inferring that this legistor was upset simply because they might be teaching French.

Now, if you had no clue what the International Baccalaureate program was about Texas Monthly would have you believe this guy was an idiot. Is it possible Texas Monthly magazine is lying though? You bet your sweet *** they are.

The International Baccalaureate program is designed to produce the cadre needed to support global government. The program is specifically designed to teach children (high schoolers in this case)the necessity of international institutions to control every aspect of our lives. Since ALL problems are now global we MUST have global institutions to deal with them.

All this stuff is out in the open. People just have to open their eyes, shut out all the stupid left/right rhetoric, and take the time to learn.

"Ex-Clinton aide to head LBJ School" Austin American-Statesman July 7, 2005.
The LBJ school is a public policy school. This is where smart and dangerous individuals go in order to learn how to RUN the rest of us.
The new dean, James Steinberg, says "Public policy schools have been focused on state and local government, but WE live in a much more dynamic INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT,"

Given that the slogan these people use is "Think Globally, Act Locally" the emphasis at the local and state level was to incorporate international (UN) beliefs/laws.

Republican voters read this stuff all the time yet they fail to put their intelligence analysts hats on and ask why it is that those they elect fail to counter publicly or otherwise whats being said and done.

One more thing about the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights: If you use the internet to study the constitutions of communist nations, such as the USSR, Cuba, or China, you will find that the 'rights' language in those constitutions mirrors that of the language in the UN Declaration. This should not be surprising given the nature of those who started the UN (two of which were later found to be American spys for the USSR).

Here are the last two articles of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 29.
(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30.
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

Now you see the same language used in communist constitutions. And if you can't see the outright evil in Art. 29, sec. 1, you might as well be a pet rock.

If Republican voters (because I don't have much faith in Democrat voters) don't get off their *****'s and get these people out of office this nation is doomed. There will be endless conflicts in which your children and their children will be sent all over the world to be UN enforcers, the already excessive police state will get MUCH worse. And while they are gone foreigners will be brought here to "help" us. You are getting a tiny taste of that now. But little did you know that the military, US and foreign, have been training for this for years now. These people are testing you, they are probing your lines looking for reactions to study.

So when they see you choose money over the rights of your fellow citizens they know that they have you by the "short and curlies".

 

[hdl]

Operation Northwoods may not make you care, but it will make you think about the possibilities.

http://www.google.com

Given the nature of government today it's no wonder that George Washington's birthday was changed to Presidents Day. Can't have conspiracy nuts going around and repeating such things as; Government, like fire, is a dangerous servant, and an even more dangerous master.

 

[vernon946]

RE: I care.

HDL, nice series of posts. You had some good information there, and I'm glad someone is paying attention. I wish the "I don't care" posters were paying better attention to the world besides Rush Limbaugh, as I do not agree that uncaring Americans are a worthwhile solution to the problems facing this country today.

Vernon in C2197

 

[Tennesseahawk]

RE: I care.

It's hard to know what's right and wrong anymore. The government will cover up this or that; and the people who want to bring them down will blow stuff out of proportion, or make it up as they go. So, who do you believe? The easiest thing to do is ignore it until the media finds out. But what does that do? It makes us dependent on them and their agendas. We're in a lose-lose situation when it comes to information, and ppl are too busy to do their own investigating.

I don't believe we ever set foot on the moon. I do believe flight 800 was indeed shot down off of Long Island, and not a fuel problem that caused it. I believe we're in Iraq to whip the other countries in the area into shape. I believe America will lose its identity in the next 100 years. I hate the way our country, and the world are going. But what can you do when our history books are written for the politically correct? Who do you trust with the facts when the facts mean nothing today? And who do you trust with information when everyone giving it has their own agenda, and will twist it accordingly?

In a nation where two-income families keep everyone busy instead of asking questions, what do you do? I've grown tired of asking, cause nothing comes of it but a headache. Especially now that the internet is so full of info garbage, you can't trust what you read. The dumbing down of America is a ploy to keep the majority ignorant. That's why my daughter will be homeschooled!

 

[hdl]

RE: I care.

>HDL, nice series of posts. You had some good information
>there, and I'm glad someone is paying attention. I wish the
>"I don't care" posters were paying better attention to the
>world besides Rush Limbaugh, as I do not agree that uncaring
>Americans are a worthwhile solution to the problems facing
>this country today.
>
>Vernon in C2197

I consider myself to be a reformed Republican. The rhetoric matched my beliefs and those of the founding fathers.

I also listened to Limbaugh for years. But then, like many of his listeners, I began to study more. Then I realized that Limbaugh's purpose on radio was to keep the Republican continuency in line and keep them corralled. Keep them agitated so they could maintain the left/right scam instead of looking deeper at the true Republican leadership beliefs. What these people say on the campaign trail is 170% off from what they really do.

The truth is that the USA is a single party state where the media and parties maintain a strategy of tension in the populace that distracts from their global agenda.

 

[hdl]

RE: I care.

>It's hard to know what's right and wrong anymore. The
>government will cover up this or that; and the people who
>want to bring them down will blow stuff out of proportion,
>or make it up as they go. So, who do you believe? The
>easiest thing to do is ignore it until the media finds out.
>But what does that do? It makes us dependent on them and
>their agendas. We're in a lose-lose situation when it comes
>to information, and ppl are too busy to do their own
>investigating.

Ignore it until the media finds out? Is it possible that the primary reason why people don't know what's right or wrong is due soley to a media controlled by six corporations and government run schools? Did the media report that Walter Conkrite (sp) said he supported global government in his book "A Reporters Life"? Did the media report Hillary Clinton's appearance at the World Federalist Society and what they support?

If people are too busy to do any investigating (actually learning), then why do people in the porn and professional sports industry make so much money?

>
>I don't believe we ever set foot on the moon.

In order for that feat to have been accomplished the USA would have needed the eyes of many other nations to participate in the alledged cover up. Not likely.

I do believe
>flight 800 was indeed shot down off of Long Island, and not
>a fuel problem that caused it.

TWA 800 leaves us with two possible scenarios:
1) It was a US military screw-up. Possible but not likely.
2) It was a terrorist attack that needed covered up because the USG wasn't yet prepared to carry out its strategic agenda.

TWA flight 800 perfectly illustrates how we only have a free press in THEORY only. That aircraft was shot down.

I believe we're in Iraq to
>whip the other countries in the area into shape.

Whip into shape, yes. But what shape might that be? Knowing that is pretty important. As much as Americans might dislike Arab/Persian cultural and religious beliefs, they may yet support them in a fight against a greater evil that hides behind the agenda of "freedom and democracy".

I believe
>America will lose its identity in the next 100 years. I hate
>the way our country, and the world are going. But what can
>you do when our history books are written for the
>politically correct? Who do you trust with the facts when
>the facts mean nothing today? And who do you trust with
>information when everyone giving it has their own agenda,
>and will twist it accordingly?

I started with a copy of the Federalist Papers. After watching the Brady bill debates in May of 1991 on c-span I joined the NRA and registered to vote. The NRA sent me a bunch of information with qoutes from the Founding Fathers taken from the Federalist Papers. Having a fine education from the government education camps I had no idea of what the Federalist Papers were.

Because the potential existed that the NRA might follow in the steps of the media and constantly take people out of context, I purchased a copy of the Federalist Papers and studied them. I found the quotes to be accurate, that the media intentionally and knowingly lies about them, and that the NRA is somewhat cowardly when it comes to dealing with the Congress.

>In a nation where two-income families keep everyone busy
>instead of asking questions, what do you do? I've grown
>tired of asking, cause nothing comes of it but a headache.
>Especially now that the internet is so full of info garbage,
>you can't trust what you read. The dumbing down of America
>is a ploy to keep the majority ignorant. That's why my
>daughter will be homeschooled!

Ever notice that the corporate media always denigrates the Internet but not itself? If it weren't for that "garbage" on the Internet I wouldn't have copies of Lt. Commander Guy Cunningham's thesis he did while at the Naval Post Graduate School at Montery, CA. Yep, that would be the one with the infamous 29 Palms questionaire where Marines were asked if they would fire on US citizens if they refused to give up their arms among other acts of treason, like a willingness to give an oath of allegiance to the UN. I have copies of the entire thesis, not just the questionaire.

Even though a leak occured that caused copies of this thesis to be sent to a great many members of Congress after constituency complaints, the corporate media did not say a word to the American people. If the media didn't report it must not be true, just more Internet "garbage", they say.

 

[vernon946]

RE: I care.

That's funny! I used to think of myself as mostly Republican until they started changing (or maybe I got smarter). Then I tried thinking of myself as a Democrat until I realized that dog won't hunt either. Now I'm just plain old independent and try to find some truth in the big 6 media giants, at least enough to figure out how they want us to think.

Over the years and thanks to the Internet, I have assembled a list of favorite media outlets around the world, which offers me the benefit of seeing their perspective on news events, especially those never reported here.

Would you believe that over the last 6 years, we have made no new friends around the world? Would you also believe that we have done an excellent job of exporting the fear that is used here to keep us all quiet and accepting of government pronouncements? I do now.

Vernon in C2197

 

[Panzer]

Your belive this bunk?

I love all the crackpot conspiracy theories posted in this thread. The one about not believing USA landed on the moon is best. I have not read so much bunk in one thread (with the exception of some UFO/New Age boards) since I begin to frequent BBS with a 1200 baud modem in the 80’s

Tell you what, since some of you believe only in what you want to, I got one for you. The world is actually controlled by an Evil Alien call Santa Claus. He brain washes children all over the world and then controls them when they get into position of power. I can prevent this from happening but I need money. Please send my lots of cash and in about 20 to 50 years I will be able to rid the world of this evil menace. }>

My point here is that YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGETIVE. You can't prove to me that my theory is not true. You say I have no proof that he does not exist and I say that every year millions of children write to Santa altering their behavior for rewards. That's mind control for ya and the post office accepts their mail, so he has too exist!

I was going to attempt to disprove the above crap but it's just too much. I am overwhelmed by HDL. Here are some links however for those who wish to read what less delusional thinkers write about some of the above "theories". One last thing, remember this:

PRINCIPLE OF PARSIMONY OR PRINCIPLE OF SIMPLICITY
A criterion for deciding among scientific theories or explanations: One should always choose the simplest explanation of a phenomenon, the one that requires the fewest leaps of logic.

So, spark in a fuel tank or our government shot it down and then a massive cover up... hummmmm. I think a spark a bit more logical...

Here are the links:

Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal
http://www.csicop.org/resources/#misc

This is an excellent site for debunking, mostly paranormal but they do cover other subjects from time to time and this link goes to their link site for many worldwide skeptic organizations.

For the Moon hoax, if you still believe USA never landed on the moon after reading this then I pity you:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html#stars

This article has some interesting background to the root and growth of the missile theory on flight 800:
http://www.jonathanvankin.com/twa.html


One Last last thing, I don't care for the Arab/Muslim anti-American religious fanatics either.

 

[hdl]

RE: Your belive this bunk?

The one about not believing USA landed on the moon
>is best.

T-hawk expressed that belief. How did I address it?
By omission you associated me with that belief.

>My point here is that YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGETIVE

No, you can't prove a negative. You can, however, like any police detective or intel analyst, take from facts available to you, along with statements that would provide a possible motive, and develope theories that will lead to a logical conclusion.

>I was going to attempt to disprove the above crap but it's
>just too much.

So in lieu of making an attempt you conveniently snipped FACTS you didn't want to deal with and instead took the time to make up a story about something you are more familiar with, like Santa.

>I am overwhelmed by HDL.

So overwhelmed in fact that you provide a url that deals with the paranormal yet fail to relate the connection between that url and statements made by Walter Conkrite, Hillary Clinton's connection to the World Federalist Association (now called the World Federalist Movement-Institute for Global Policy), or the infamous 29 Palms thesis and questionnaire.

It seems to me that you may be confusing "simple" logic with politically convenient logic.

By your example we would have to assume that if high society individuals A,B, and C expressed the desire to achieve XYZ, "simple" logic would then tell us that A,B, and C really won't pursue XYZ and there can be no correlation between the desires of A,B, and C and the fact that the Founding Fathers have been replaced in text books with JFK humping Marilyn Monroe, the latest African tribal dances, and how former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev is an environmentalist hero.

Here are some
>links however for those who wish to read what less
>delusional thinkers write about some of the above
>"theories". One last thing, remember this:
>
>PRINCIPLE OF PARSIMONY OR PRINCIPLE OF SIMPLICITY
>A criterion for deciding among scientific theories or
>explanations: One should always choose the simplest
>explanation of a phenomenon, the one that requires the
>fewest leaps of logic.
>
>So, spark in a fuel tank or our government shot it down and
>then a massive cover up... hummmmm. I think a spark a bit
>more logical...

If the fuel had been gasoline that might be the case. But since it wasn't and at least one individual was arrested by the feds for trying to get an independant test done on seat cloth with possible solid rocket fuel residue on it, we can then view this as CONVENIENT logic or cover-the-butt logic.

>Here are the links:
>
>Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the
>Paranormal
>http://www.csicop.org/resources/#misc
>
>This is an excellent site for debunking, mostly paranormal
>but they do cover other subjects from time to time and this
>link goes to their link site for many worldwide skeptic
>organizations.

>This article has some interesting background to the root and
>growth of the missile theory on flight 800:
>http://www.jonathanvankin.com/twa.html

Funny how this url neglects to point out just how many eye witnesses there were. There were hundreds of them. It must have been a simple oversight on their part that they neglected to mention that several of the witnesses were current and former military personnel with first hand knowledge of missiles in action.

In reference to a friendly fire scenario the sited url states:
"The authorities labeled it "an outrageous allegation."

"News organizations, which subsequently took a closer look, agreed."

They (media) took a closer look? Oh really now. And just how close did they look? Possibly as close as the FBI leadership would let them look? We do know that one man did try and take a closer look. He was ARRESTED for trying to get an INDEPENDANT test done.

The USG and their media would have also stated that it was "an outrageous allegation" had anyone reported on Operation North Woods prior to its declassification.

Since you were so overwhelmed by it all you didn't address the 29 Palms survey and thesis. Perhaps when you're better rested you could address the logic behind the media's failure to report it widely and the logical consequences if they had acted in the PUBLIC INTEREST - you know, all that "right to know" stuff.

In order to preserve your integrity please stick to the subject matter, don't snip relevant facts, and avoid topics like UFOs and such.

 

[Panzer]

RE: Your belive this bunk?

After typing my forth page, I realized if was a futile effort. Nothing I could post is going to change your mind. And in all fairness, nothing you could post will change my mind either... I suppose I am a bit of a fanatic when it comes to debunking. So, gonna let this subject drop.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

RE: Your belive this bunk?

Panzer, because I don't believe astronauts landed on the moon doesn't make me right. I choose not to believe it because evidence tells me so. If there are hard facts telling me otherwise, I will change my mind.

As far as flight 800, hard facts did prove to me that it was shot down. You aren't going to easily change a Navy officer's mind about what he saw... yet they did.

Maybe you should take off the government issued rose-colored glasses you're wearing, and take what the media tells you with a grain of salt. I'm not a conspiracy nut, yet if something smells like crap, it usually is.

Hdl, I was a Republican and very supportive of Bush. The Republicans liked to talk the talk when they weren't in power. Now, I've never seen as much taxes (income tax rate means nothing), pork, and regulation than since Bush got in. Big business runs the country, while small businesses (o/os) pay the bills. I feel an independant revolution coming on. If not, the Carribean is looking better each day.

 

[Panzer]

RE: Your belive this bunk?

That's my point. If you followed and that link debunking each and every piece of "evidence" which those who claim that the moon landing was a hoax, then there is nothing which I can write or post which will change your mind.

Reminds me of the PBS program NOVA, which did a documentary on Anastasia. Her supporters insisted on getting a DNA test to prove that she was related to the Romanov's. Well, after the DNA test proved without a doubt that she was NOT related to the Romanov's, they then refused to believe the results. IMHO, it's a religious thing, like a belief. It you BELIEVE in UFO's, Channeling, TWA 800 Hoax, Bigfoot, Illuminati, Aids invited by CIA, WTC cover-up, JFK, or whatever, then you CAN'T change your mind. Its faith based and part of your identity, in your soul. The smallest snippet of information, even taken completely out of context, is all the evidence you need to support your beliefs, despite an overwhelming flood of documents, testimony, and research showing otherwise. That's why it's no use on my part to try to debunk you, you won’t change your mind because you CAN’T change your mind. To do so would mean to give up your beliefs, your identity, IMHO.

The thing to me which is most illogical about all conspiracy theorists is that on one hand, they credit the government of being able to with machine-like precision to carry out over the decades plot after plot and control the media to get away with it. Yet, all their evidence is from gross mistake after mistake they made proving their theory. Either the government is a bunch of masterminds or blunderers, can't be both. And of course, it's can't be normal people in the government, most good, some bad, many incompetent, doing their jobs and CYA, making mistakes just like all people do.

I really only have one question for you and HDL. If the government is doing all this plotting and cover-up, then why are YOU (I mean all conspiracy theorists) allowed to come here and post what you want? If they have been able to control the media for many many years, which means the government has God like abilities, why are you allowed and thousands of others post everywhere, have TV shows and documentaries broadcast, publish books (some national best sellers), and print articles about your theories? This shows an incompetent government, unable to control anything at all. It just not make any logical sense to me.

 

[vernon946]

RE: Your belive this bunk?

>why are YOU (I mean all conspiracy theorists) allowed to come here and post what you want? If they have been able to control the media for many many years, which means the government has God like abilities,

Because when you have the radio and TV waves full of folks spouting the same party line to a crowd of willing sheep who do not question any ideas or statements they hear, we who don't accept much without questioning are drowned out in the daily process of lies, and become viewed as crockpots by these sheep. Remember WMD and how many times we all heard it until finally it was shown that Iraq has no WMD, and people are still preaching they had WMD.

why are you allowed and thousands of others post everywhere, have TV shows and documentaries broadcast, publish books (some national best sellers), and print articles about your theories?

We have to continue the illusion that we live in a free society with the vast majority believing what we are told over and over again. They need us to balance their "truth" against.

Vernon in C2197