Hours Of Service & driver retention dilemmas

[guest]

Questions for teams and fleet owners. My wife and I will be teaming up again, this time to go expediting. This will be the first time we have teamed together since the new HOS became effective.
How have the new HOS affected your business lifestyle as an experienced expediter team? Has it made you reconsider your place in the industry or have you made the transition and plan to continue to make it work for you? Logging 10/10 vs. 5/5 is a drastic difference, is this something that has spurred an increase in driver turnover in expediting? I see a lot of fleet owners looking for teams, is it just because the industry is exploding, or are the ingenious new and improved HOS changes forcing a lot of teams to burn out and fade away? I did some searching here on the forum for relevant posts but the search engine apparently wasn't working right.

 

[x06col]

The present HOS requirements certainly present a challenge for team members to discipline themselves to rest when they are off duty, and support their round on the clock. That, seems to be the most difficult part, or, is for myself. Eleven is a stretch if you've had only a couple winks. I certainly don't have a respectable answer to your question except rest when you can, and rest really well when not moving. Seems you have to force it in this environment.

 

[davekc]

I would say it has impacted the solo operator more than the teams. I do think it may have been a factor for some, but not in huge numbers.
I would be more inclined to believe the cost of operating while running for the same rates of five years was a much larger contributor.










Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[LDB]

I've heard from a few who quit it was because they couldn't do 10/10 safely. I've heard from a few who are still at it whose paper shows 10/10 and whose seats show 5/5/5/5 for safety's sake. There's no question that for some 5/5/5/5 is far safer than a strained 10/10. It's unfortunate our rules makers have no brains or common sense.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[terryandrene]

As Leo alludes, Federal regulators and carriers alike require log books that show a 10/10 drive/sleep cycle rather than the more desired 5/5/5/5. In order to operate in any manner that is not consistant with the regulations, drivers either maintain multiple log books, perform hurry-up log entries when necessary or perform some other nefarious activity. Creative log keeping has occured since the advent of logs for OTR drivers.

Now that the electronic, big-brother age is upon us, like it or not, Electronic On Board Recorders (EOBR) are in our immediate future. These gadgets will force accurate log keeping whenever the truck is moving. Dual EOBR will neither be allowed nor available, hurry up log entries will be a thing of the past and, if challenged by law enforcement, the person behind the wheel had best be the person logged on to the EOBR. A government approved EOBR will not allow corrections to past entries and will always show current, to the moment information.

Has anyone of our members had any personal experience with an EOBR and be willing to share the pro and con of the operation of these devices?

 

[jaminjim]

Hate to admit it but if we get some back to back loads we are more rested with the 10 10 rest break. I just don't like the fact that sometimes you will need to switch for saftey b-4 your ten is up.

On a side note the best thing we did for better rest was to buy a memory foam topper for the bed. We got a King size one three inches thick and fold it in half. Now we sleep like babies. That tip was from Mike and Cyn. Thanks Mr and Mrs. goodtude.

 

[Doggie Daddy]

jamminjim,is that folded in half mattress topper placed on top of the existing mattress, or in place of the mattress?DD.

 

[jaminjim]

>jamminjim,is that folded in half mattress topper placed on
>top of the existing mattress, or in place of the
>mattress?DD.

On top of a regular mattress. The memory foam from Walmart was 3" thick and then folded in half for a total of six inches. When home we take it out and put it on our bed at the house.

If you get one you will have to put up with thinking how you could have been so dumb for not doing it sooner.

 

[jaminjim]

If you really want to shame yourself save up some extra money and buy the memory foam mattress from SAMS it has the foam base then custom cut it to the size you want.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4569413
There is another link that I can't get posted for some reason, but it is the whole matterrs.

 

[RichM]

The HOS rules were a large factor in us deciding to no longer run as a team. We felt 10/10 could defintely affect your health and judgement.While a 800 mile run would be OK,a 52 hour cross country trip could be dangerous due to built, up fatigue. The FMCSA people do not have a clue as too trying to get adequate rest in a moving vehicle. Some teams do it but I think the vast majority are just creative on their logbooks. Now when EOBR units are made mandatory I think there will be a large exodus of teams.

I ran solo for about 18 months and the 14 hour rule was one of the reasons plus the huge rate decreases that competition has brought on, while expenses have tripled in that it'sno longer worth the effort and punishment you do to your health. I netted more in the late 80's and 90's then a truck does today. I see posts when ppl are running for $1.09 per miles. That is no return and will show no profit.

 

[LDB]

My guess is that teams who want to use a sensible 5/5/5/5 will do so even after EOBR. One will log in and after around 5 hours pull into a rest area, stop the truck for maybe 1-2 minutes to pit stop and swap out, and then the other one drives. The one who is logged in goes to the bunk to sleep and if they get pulled over makes a quick switch as soon as the truck is stopped. Otherwise after about 5 hours they stop again and switch back and this time log the EOBR as a change of driver and repeat the process all over again.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Moot]

Leo:

I think your guess is correct until drivers are required to wear electronic ankle bracelets. Then BIG BROTHER will know who is driving and who is in the bunk.

 

[themagicoen]

Ah creative logging. I've only been doing this for a year but have learned many many tricks. The electronic logging will change things but as said, one will log in and the other will drive. My team driver could do 8 at most so I would finish his 10 plus do my 10, so my day around 13-14 hours but I don't tire easily and if the truck wasn't moving I was sleeping, sometimes for 24 hours. I talked to a driver who was solo that only shut down from 1am to 4/5am, ran 18-20 hrs/day - still to this day I haven't figured out how he was doing his logs, he explained it to me how he did it with 1 log but like I said, still can't figure it out.

 

[Crazynuff]

The EOBR rule is out and for the time being will only be mandantory for carriers with a history of HOS violations . HOS rules are impossible to comply with . Read the definition of on duty time . It says ALL time in a commercial vehicle is on duty unless in a sleeper berth . There is an exception for being at a terminal or on a carrier's property where you can be off duty if relieved of duty but no such exception is stated for vehicles . So if you finish a load , go in the sleeper and take 8 hours and get out of the truck , whenever you get back in the truck the clock starts unless you get back in the sleeper . If you do get back in the sleeper if you come out before 8 hours that time has counted against your 14 . There are officers that will check your log book if you are sitting in a truck at a truck stop . They will disallow off duty time if you haven't been out of the truck all that time .

 

[TeamCaffee]

When was the last time you have seen an officer wandering around a truck stop asking every truck to show log books? Even then how many times when you go through a scale do they even ask to see your log book? You need to be ready when going through a scale to show a log book but the percentage of times you are asked for one are very few. You will also see some and very few of them road side DOT inspections. You just need to be aware if the truck is moving you can be asked to show a log book.

 

[highway star]

I think, and I could be wrong, that waiting for a load in a truckstop, or anywhere else, is no longer consider on-duty, not driving. Before the changes it was, but wasn't really enforced. I mean, can you imagine? Nothing would have gotten done. I've never, in 30 years, seen the DOT wandering around a truckstop checking logbooks or anything else. I think they would need the permission of the owner to do that on private property and that would quickly become an unpopular truckstop if that happened.

 

[jaminjim]

It was not the Walmart brand, the wife told me it's a tmpur pedic or something. Not the Walmart brand. sorry

 

[guest]

Well, I certainly appreciate the responses from all here.
I'm sure that we'll figure out a system that works best for both of us, I was just curious to see how the changes were affecting the personal and business aspects on both sides of the fence. We look forward to our learning process in this niche and glad we found this spot.

 

[Crazynuff]

Panther did pretty well with inspections , So did FECC http://safersys.org/query.asp?searc...al_query_string=PANTHER II TRANSPORTATION INC . http://safersys.org/query.asp?searc...iginal_query_string=FEDEX CUSTOM CRITICAL INC But with over 3,000 inspections over the period for Panther alone I'd say inspections are not that rare . For some reason AL , TN , KY , OH and MI seem to do the most roadside inspections .